Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Neb]

Baha'is do not believe in literal interpretation of Rapture.
Shoghi Effendi explained the Bahai interpretation of those verses and how they already have come to pass.

@Tony Bristow-Stagg would know the letter from Shoghi Effendi about those verses.

That's why we have different beliefs and when you mix these two beliefs conflicts arise. I will insist mine and you will insist yours and it will never stop.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's why we have different beliefs and when you mix these two beliefs conflicts arise. I will insist mine and you will insist yours and it will never stop.

In this life, there is no doubt it will stop

God doeth as He Willeth.

Regards Tony

 

[Neb]

In this life, there is no doubt it will stop

God doeth as He Willeth.

Regards Tony

That's why we call it life, it will only stop when it's no longer a life anymore. So, while we still have the life in us we can stop and think what would be the life after when there is no more life. That's the great unknown staring at you, i.e., if you don't have Christ in you.
Jesus said to her, “ I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies," -John 11:25

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's why we call it life, it will only stop when it's no longer a life anymore. So, while we still have the life in us we can stop and think what would be the life after when there is no more life. That's the great unknown staring at you, i.e., if you don't have Christ in you.
Jesus said to her, “ I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies," -John 11:25

John 16:23 "In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you."

Christ the Son is now Baha'u'llah the Father, we now ask the Father in Christs new Name.

John 7:24 "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe I am not sure how mellow He will appear when He destroys the world.

You know that's a good point. All those fire and brimstone preachers tried to warn people about the impending judgement, but the Baha'i God is a lot easier going. He's eliminated hell. So I guess even the worst of people will go into the spiritual realm with a chance to redeem themselves. But even the Baha'i god is planning on doing or allowing some nasty things to happen to wake up humanity to the Baha'i way of thinking.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG this is done to death.

If you wish so agree with current thought and see that it is the Body of Jesus and not the Spirit of Christ talked about, then that is your choice.

How can it be otherwise you ask? Well Jesus the Christ said it would be otherwise, how else is it going to be a new heaven and a new earth, a new Jerusalem and a New Name, with stars falling and the moon not giving light, all the while a Jesus no one would recognize will be surfing a cloud of rising vapor the opposite direction back down to earth.

If that is literally going to happen, thank God I will be dead, I do not need magical shows.

By the way, the Jews still await. That is the best explanation, as they also await these miraculous signs to vindicate their stance.

This is the applicable part of the Kitab-i-iqan

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 81-93

"...Great God! Notwithstanding their acceptance of the truth of this tradition, these divines who are still doubtful of, and dispute about, the theological obscurities of their faith, yet claim to be the exponents of the subtleties of the law of God, and the expounders of the essential mysteries of His holy Word. They confidently assert that such traditions as indicate the advent of the expected Qá’im have not yet been fulfilled, whilst they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of the meaning of these traditions, and are still oblivious of the fact that all the signs foretold have come to pass, that the way of God’s holy Cause hath been revealed, and the concourse of the faithful, swift as lightning, are, even now, passing upon that way, whilst these foolish divines wait expecting to witness the signs foretold. Say, O ye foolish ones! Wait ye even as those before you are waiting!"

Regards Tony

"Done to death"? No, I don't think so. Let me repeat...

This is what I asked... "So Paul specifically says the "Lord Jesus Christ". Can that be interpreted any other way than that he expected, and told others, that Jesus was the one coming back?" Part of this debate is who should we be looking for to return "The Christ" as in an Anointed One from God or Jesus? In these verses Paul says that it is the Lord Jesus Christ that is coming back. So how can that be interpreted to mean anyone other than Jesus? I don't think it can, so I don't blame Christians for being adamant about expecting Jesus and not some other "Christ".
​

Why does Paul lie right here to these poor people? Why is Paul accepted as part of the NT if he is spreading this false teaching that Jesus is the one coming back? But, because of this, who are Christians expecting to come back? Jesus. And they have good reason to believe it is Jesus coming back.

Your argument is all about how improbable the whole thing is. Which is the same argument Baha'is use to deny the resurrection and ascension of Jesus. So you don't believe his body is alive, instead you say he is dead and buried in some hidden place. Maybe, but that means the gospel writers and Paul are all liars.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe you should show me the evidence like in the movie line "show me the money."

I believe there is no evidence to support that statement and plenty of Biblical evidence that He did just that.

I believe that is pure fantasy.

I believe that means he claimed to receive revelation from God which anyone can do but that does not mean he actually did. The Bible is a good source to measure a person's claim and the B man does not square with the Bible.

I believe there is no solid evidence fr this. No doubt he tried to pass himself off as the Mahdi.

I believe this shows he is a false prophet because his claims are false.

You can believe whatever you want to believe but beliefs do not create reality.

You can measure His claim by the Bible, since Baha’u’llah fulfilled the prophecies for Christ’s return and the prophecies for the Messianic Age are in the process of being fulfilled and ill continue to be fulfilled as the Messianic Age unfolds.

 

[Neb]

Christ the Son is now Baha'u'llah the Father, we now ask the Father in Christs new Name.


Regards Tony

Christ is now the Father and ask the Father in Christ new Name. Aren't you confused?

 

[CG Didymus]

Christ is now the Father and ask the Father in Christ new Name. Aren't you confused?

You want to get confusing. They believe Muhammad was the very next "manifestation" after Jesus. So why isn't the new name "Islam"? Then the next new name should be "Babism". Then, finally, the latest new name is "Baha'is". I've asked them so many questions about the Book of Revelation and I get some very wild explanations. The "Lion of Judah" to them is Baha'u'llah. The Lamb that was slain to them is the Bab. The Three Woes are Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. The Beasts and the Dragon are corrupt Islamic leaders from back more than a thousand years ago. And, of course, it all makes sense to them.

Ironically, I like a lot of things about the social teachings of the Baha'i Faith. I just can't believe in all of their explanations and interpretations of the other religions.

 

[Neb]

You want to get confusing. They believe Muhammad was the very next "manifestation" after Jesus. So why isn't the new name "Islam"? Then the next new name should be "Babism". Then, finally, the latest new name is "Baha'is". I've asked them so many questions about the Book of Revelation and I get some very wild explanations. The "Lion of Judah" to them is Baha'u'llah. The Lamb that was slain to them is the Bab. The Three Woes are Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. The Beasts and the Dragon are corrupt Islamic leaders from back more than a thousand years ago. And, of course, it all makes sense to them.

Ironically, I like a lot of things about the social teachings of the Baha'i Faith. I just can't believe in all of their explanations and interpretations of the other religions.

Everything, all religions are about bahaullah to bahai faith.

 

[Neb]

Breaking News: "There is NO HELL" -the pope

"Souls are not punished," the pope was quoted as saying in the article. "Those who repent obtain God's forgiveness and go among the ranks of those who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot be forgiven disappear. There is no hell -- there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Everything, all religions are about bahaullah to bahai faith.

It is all about our 'One God' and Gods Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It is all about our 'One God' and Gods Messengers.

Regards Tony

Did all messagers teach there was only one God? When did the one God reveal he was the one and only God and through which messenger?

 

[CG Didymus]

You can believe whatever you want to believe but beliefs do not create reality.

You can measure His claim by the Bible, since Baha’u’llah fulfilled the prophecies for Christ’s return and the prophecies for the Messianic Age are in the process of being fulfilled and ill continue to be fulfilled as the Messianic Age unfolds.

I don't suppose you know when specifically "Christ" returns in Revelation. Only a couple of chapters are interpreted by Abdu'l Baha'. But the Baha'i claim that Baha'u'llah is the third "Woe" in the three Woes mentioned in Revelation 8:13.

13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”
​

All kinds of bad things happen and this Woe, according to Baha'is is Muhammed. It ends in chapter 9:12.

12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
​

More bad stuff. This second Woe is supposed to be the Bab. It ends on chapter 11:14.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.
​

It never says when the third Woe ends. Is everything after that prophecies about things that are to happen during the time of Baha'u'llah?

 

[Trailblazer]

All kinds of bad things happen and this Woe, according to Baha'is is Muhammed. It ends in chapter 9:12.
12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
More bad stuff. This second Woe is supposed to be the Bab. It ends on chapter 11:14.
14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.
It never says when the third Woe ends. Is everything after that prophecies about things that are to happen during the time of Baha'u'llah?

Yes, everything after that is what is going to happen after Baha’u’llah comes and into the Golden Age of humanity, when the Kingdom of God will be established upon earth.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

In the far future, when everyone in the world has recognized Baha’u’llah and follows His teachings and laws the world will be like a paradise because there will be very little evil in the world. Below in bold is an apt description of what the world will be like. The seventh angel is Baha’u’llah and the Spiritual and Everlasting Kingdom is what is referred to as the “Kingdom of God” on earth as it is in heaven in the Bible.

“The seventh angel is a man qualified with heavenly attributes, who will arise with heavenly qualities and character. Voices will be raised, so that the appearance of the Divine Manifestation will be proclaimed and diffused. In the day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts, and at the epoch of the divine cycle of the Omnipotent which is promised and mentioned in all the books and writings of the Prophets—in that day of God, the Spiritual and Divine Kingdom will be established, and the world will be renewed; a new spirit will be breathed into the body of creation; the season of the divine spring will come; the clouds of mercy will rain; the sun of reality will shine; the life-giving breeze will blow; the world of humanity will wear a new garment; the surface of the earth will be a sublime paradise; mankind will be educated; wars, disputes, quarrels and malignity will disappear; and truthfulness, righteousness, peace and the worship of God will appear; union, love and brotherhood will surround the world; and God will rule for evermore—meaning that the Spiritual and Everlasting Kingdom will be established. Such is the day of God. For all the days which have come and gone were the days of Abraham, Moses and Christ, or of the other Prophets; but this day is the day of God, for the Sun of Reality will arise in it with the utmost warmth and splendor.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 56-57

In the following passage, that universal Manifestation refers to Baha’u’llah. Below in bold is an apt description of what Baha’u’llah did by virtue of His Coming. This passage also explains how the Baha’i Faith will eventually change the world.

“And that universal Manifestation will subdue the world by spiritual power, not by war and combat; He will do it with peace and tranquillity, not by the sword and arms; He will establish this Heavenly Kingdom by true love, and not by the power of war. He will promote these divine teachings by kindness and righteousness, and not by weapons and harshness. He will so educate the nations and people that, notwithstanding their various conditions, their different customs and characters, and their diverse religions and races, they will, as it is said in the Bible, like the wolf and the lamb, the leopard, the kid, the sucking child and the serpent, become comrades, friends and companions. The contentions of races, the differences of religions, and the barriers between nations will be completely removed, and all will attain perfect union and reconciliation under the shadow of the Blessed Tree.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 58

 

[Muffled]

You know that's a good point. All those fire and brimstone preachers tried to warn people about the impending judgement, but the Baha'i God is a lot easier going. He's eliminated hell. So I guess even the worst of people will go into the spiritual realm with a chance to redeem themselves. But even the Baha'i god is planning on doing or allowing some nasty things to happen to wake up humanity to the Baha'i way of thinking.

I believe I wouldn't go so far as to say the Baha'is have their own god, only that their view of God does not totally align with the characteristics of God. It is like the view that Jesus is just a prophet. That view does not align with what Jesus said about Himself.

 

[Muffled]

You can believe whatever you want to believe but beliefs do not create reality.

You can measure His claim by the Bible, since Baha’u’llah fulfilled the prophecies for Christ’s return and the prophecies for the Messianic Age are in the process of being fulfilled and ill continue to be fulfilled as the Messianic Age unfolds.

I believe you can keep saying that until the cows come home but without valid Biblical proof to back it up you are just breaking wind.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe I wouldn't go so far as to say the Baha'is have their own god, only that their view of God does not totally align with the characteristics of God. It is like the view that Jesus is just a prophet. That view does not align with what Jesus said about Himself.

Muhammad was a Messenger of God as foretold by Daniel and Revelation. Muhammad was a necessary link in God and His Faiths. Muhammad corrected the false doctrine of the trinity in the 600's. Had Christianity found God in the Message of Muhammad and the Koran, this conversation would not be happening, the error would have been corrected 1260 years before Christ returned again in Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God.

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. " (4:171, Yusif Ali)

"Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:575, Yusif Ali)

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe you can keep saying that until the cows come home but without valid Biblical proof to back it up you are just breaking wind.

The Biblical proof that backs Baha’u’llah up can be found in this book: Thief in the Night

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Biblical proof that backs Baha’u’llah up can be found in this book: Thief in the Night

That is a cat 5 Hurricane or Tornado

Should help to break wind!

Regards Tony