Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We would hope so, but.......That is a cat 5 Hurricane or Tornado
Should help to break wind!
Regards Tony
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Unfortunately, that would be like Christians asking you to read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. It ain't gonna happen.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
To believe Muhammad was the next manifestation after Jesus, then that would mean that Christianity was in its "winter" as one Baha'i had said in the Great Beings thread. It would also mean that the main focus of the NT on the very "next" coming of the Christ-Spirit should have been Muhammad. How much is prophesied about Muhammad in the Bible? You mention Daniel and Revelation, what else?
It would be the Christain asking the Jew to read that book. A Christain would only be offering a different view of the same Christ and Bible to another believer in Christ.
You seem to forget we have accepted Christ and the Bible 100%.
You are correct in a sense, as my mother would not read Thief in the Night. But the is like a Jew not wishing to read material from Christ.
Regards Tony
Each Mesenger fulfills prophecy with their Message. Some is spiritual some has a material unfolding.
Muhammad came at a time when many veils had been placed.
One thing I have not looked for yet is the Elijah of the Muslim era. That would be interesting to explore. There would have been an Elijah.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
True, not gonna happen for most Christians but it did happen for a few... they are now Baha'is...
True, not gonna happen for most Christians but it did happen for a few... they are now Baha'is...
George Townsend even wrote his own books to call His congregations to accept Baha'u'llah. 'Christ and Baha'u'llah' a call from the heart as well! That is also a very good read.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, we have all the Townshend books and I have read them. I refer to them often.
To spark some more interest, here are some more Biblical Prophecies Fulfilled;
Baha’u’llah Exile from Iran to Iraq
Fulfilling Biblical Prophesy Micah 7:12
"In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain".
He shall come from Assyria.
At that time Assyria was a large area. Bahá'u'lláh and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihrán.
Baha’u’llah writes……
O King! We were in Iraq, when the hour of parting arrived. At the bidding of the King of Islam (Sultan of Turkey) We set Our steps in his direction. Upon Our arrival, there befell Us at the hands of the malicious that which the books of the world can never adequately recount.
Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 51
and from the fortified cities
Bahá'u'lláh was banished from city to city: After being released from the Síyáh-Chál dungeon in Tihrán in 1852 (Where Baha’u’llah received His mission when he Beheld a Maiden – the embodiment of the remembrance of the Name of My Lord suspended in the air before him) He, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdád. While living in Baghdád, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul (Constantinople at the time). Again He amazed people with His insight and profound knowledge.
The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Bahá'u'lláh again was banished to the fortified city of Adrianople (now Edirne in Turkey). Each time the walk was in winter and in mountainous areas in the utmost hardship.
The authorities urged the people to humiliate Bahá'u'lláh on the way, but the opposite occurred. He was honoured and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of 'Akká, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions. The honour and welcome that He had received in other cities did not appear. For a period of two years He went through hard times, but finally was released to better living conditions, and given great honour, however still a prisoner.
and from the fortress even to the river,
It was while in Baghdád that the Tigris river became a special place, as Bahá'u'lláh crossed it to the Ridván Garden. This day was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Bahá'u'lláh declared to those around Him, His Station as the Manifestation of God. The irresistible Force of God carried Bahá'u'lláh to infinite wonders that day, as all the prophecies of all the religions were realized. It was April 21, 1863.
and from sea to sea,
After His banishment in Baghdád, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople (Istanbul). After the banishment in Adrianople (Edirne), He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akká, the most desolate of cities, (In Israel).
and from mountain to mountain,
The time in Baghdád was turbulent with opposition. Bahá'u'lláh to protect His family and companions went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. The news of this wonderful figure captured the countryside. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdád.
The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to 'Akká. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the 'Tablet Of Carmel', surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Now it is the headquarters of the Bahá'í Faith.
Abdu’l-Bahá writes……
Prosperity, contentment, and freedom, however much desired and conducive to the gladness of the human heart, can in no wise compare with the trials of homelessness and adversity in the pathway of God; for such exile and banishment are blessed by the divine favour, and are surely followed by the mercy of Providence.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 280
Regards Tony
Baha’u’llah Exile from Iran to Iraq
Fulfilling Biblical Prophesy Micah 7:12
"In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain".
He shall come from Assyria.
At that time Assyria was a large area. Bahá'u'lláh and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihrán.
Baha’u’llah writes……
O King! We were in Iraq, when the hour of parting arrived. At the bidding of the King of Islam (Sultan of Turkey) We set Our steps in his direction. Upon Our arrival, there befell Us at the hands of the malicious that which the books of the world can never adequately recount.
Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 51
and from the fortified cities
Bahá'u'lláh was banished from city to city: After being released from the Síyáh-Chál dungeon in Tihrán in 1852 (Where Baha’u’llah received His mission when he Beheld a Maiden – the embodiment of the remembrance of the Name of My Lord suspended in the air before him) He, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdád. While living in Baghdád, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul (Constantinople at the time). Again He amazed people with His insight and profound knowledge.
The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Bahá'u'lláh again was banished to the fortified city of Adrianople (now Edirne in Turkey). Each time the walk was in winter and in mountainous areas in the utmost hardship.
The authorities urged the people to humiliate Bahá'u'lláh on the way, but the opposite occurred. He was honoured and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of 'Akká, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions. The honour and welcome that He had received in other cities did not appear. For a period of two years He went through hard times, but finally was released to better living conditions, and given great honour, however still a prisoner.
and from the fortress even to the river,
It was while in Baghdád that the Tigris river became a special place, as Bahá'u'lláh crossed it to the Ridván Garden. This day was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Bahá'u'lláh declared to those around Him, His Station as the Manifestation of God. The irresistible Force of God carried Bahá'u'lláh to infinite wonders that day, as all the prophecies of all the religions were realized. It was April 21, 1863.
and from sea to sea,
After His banishment in Baghdád, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople (Istanbul). After the banishment in Adrianople (Edirne), He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akká, the most desolate of cities, (In Israel).
and from mountain to mountain,
The time in Baghdád was turbulent with opposition. Bahá'u'lláh to protect His family and companions went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. The news of this wonderful figure captured the countryside. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdád.
The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to 'Akká. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the 'Tablet Of Carmel', surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Now it is the headquarters of the Bahá'í Faith.
Abdu’l-Bahá writes……
Prosperity, contentment, and freedom, however much desired and conducive to the gladness of the human heart, can in no wise compare with the trials of homelessness and adversity in the pathway of God; for such exile and banishment are blessed by the divine favour, and are surely followed by the mercy of Providence.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 280
Regards Tony
Jedster
Flying through space
Have youi ever heard of Khidr?
This may interest you:
"Khiḍr has been identified, some say falsely, with the Christians’ St. George and with Elijah of the Bible. "
Full article at
The Strange Life of Al-Khidr, the Legendary Immortal Prophet, Mystic, Trickster and Sea Spirit
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That is why I'm bringing up Muhammad. He is the return of Christ that should be the main focus of the NT. He is the very next manifestation that people need to know about and recognize. But the Baha'i view is that Christianity had run its course and needed updating. If the Baha'is are right, it is worse than that. Christianity went astray as soon as its followers started writing Christian beliefs, and writing down the things Jesus did, and writing down what to look for when he returns.
Baha'is say Muhammad "corrected" the teachings about the Trinity, but what did he say about heaven and hell, and angels and demons. Did he correct the "truth" about the resurrection. Baha'is say that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the one sacrificed. If that is so, why didn't Christianity correct the "error" made in the Jewish Scriptures. Instead, they support it. But you, as a Baha'i, should read why Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians believe as they do. And reading some of their books on apologetics wouldn't hurt.
Unfortunately, the other way around is less likely to happen. Christians do believe there are evil, false teachers out there. And since they don't believe Baha'is believe "100%" in Jesus and the Bible, they are going to put the Baha'i Faith into that category, as a false teaching and avoid it.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Also, Baha'is already have Muhammad as the first "Woe" and one of the "Two Witnesses" in Revelation. Both of those aren't very convincing for me, let alone for Christians. But that's the tough sell Baha'is have. They, not only have to show that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ, but also the Bab and Muhammad. And before them, that Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam, Buddha and Krishna, and whomever else Baha'is say are manifestations, are all equal to Jesus and all are prophesied about Baha'u'llah. It's difficult enough to try and prove Baha'u'llah is the one prophesied in the Bible, and especially in Revelation. Which states Jesus by name a couple of times and says things about the Lamb that was slain, the Lamb and his twelve apostles, the blood of the Lamb... all things that allude to Jesus.
And, regardless that the word for "lamb" used in Revelation is different, the imagery points to Jesus as the one being referred to. One Baha'i tried to say one time that the Lamb referred to the Bab, then another time Baha'u'llah. But, if Baha'u'llah is the return of Jesus, and the Books have been opened, everything should be perfectly clear. But it's not. There is a great amount of ambiguity in most of the prophesies fulfilled, you've got the "new name" and the "1260" years, but the others aren't at all that clear and convincing.
CG, this would be repeated things we have answered numerous times.
Example. It has been said that Isaac and Ismael were both granted the station of Sacrafice in different scriptures. The Bible was not in error. The Bible recorded Isaac as the sacrifice, the Koran did not replace this station, it also noted it was applicable to Ishmael as well. Christ was this Station.
"..Each is a sacrifice, all are offerings in the divine path, all have hastened to the altar of ecstatic love. For that reason, Isaac and Ishmael are both sacrifices, as are all the servants of God. This is a station that is among the exigencies of divine unity. From this it follows that in the station of divine unity Ishmael and Isaac are considered as one being, and it is permissible to apply the appellation of each to the other..."
Regards Tony
CG. That is not for us to prove. It is clear that we are to present the Message and it is up to others to look within their own hearts to see if it is the answer.
We are told that we must have wisdom in what we give forth and if rejection is found, then to offer it no more.
It is that last bit of wisdom, which is hard to find and practice. That is, has rejection been reached, or is it still only doubt.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But don't Baha'is like William Sears write their books trying to prove Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ?
William sears presents the evidence for people to consider. It was his books that touched my heart in 1984. First God loves laughter and then Thief in the night.
Yes they are the Proofs, that we have found, but they may not be your proofs.
All I can offer you is what I have found in turn.
We are not the source, so the proofs do not belong to us.
I am at a loss as to why others do not see the Logic of the concept of the Oneness of God, to me it is the most logical probability, given the explanations we.now have on this matter.
Regards Tony
It was not Prophecy that appealed to my heart in the first place. Prophecy is just a great bonus.
What struck me was we are One Human Race. That there was one God who has given all Faith. That no man should be preferred above another and women were our equal.
That just made perfect sense to me.
Regards Tony
Like Brad Pitt is the Clark Gable of the 90s then there must be "the Elijah of the Muslim era", right? Hey, you'll never know you could be the next J.K. Rowling, the Harry Potter series author.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Unfortunately, many people leave the Baha'i Faith or don't participate... at all, but don't bother to drop their membership. For me that's troubling, because it indicates that the initial contact with the Baha'i Faith was positive and convincing... that they had found the truth of God for today. But then they leave?True, not gonna happen for most Christians but it did happen for a few... they are now Baha'is...
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But you started this thread and what are the things we should be looking for in the return of Christ? The things prophesied... like in Revelation. Only a couple of chapters are interpreted by Abdu'l Baha. And some Baha'is have published books on Revelation, but since it isn't from Abdu'l Baha, why is their opinion all that meaningful? They aren't "infallible", so why would their interpretation count as anything that can be trusted? Heck, I'm having problems believing Abdu'l Baha's interpretations. Oh, I checked online on a couple of books by Baha'is, and they weren't all that cheap. So I'm counting on you and the others to throw me a few pertinent quotes from those books once in a while.