Christendom

[Sgt. Pepper]

All of the above agree that Jesus is Love.
And I can promise you the things that they agree on are countless.
So countless that all the rest is irrelevant.

That's not an answer, because I have no reason to take your word for it. The promise of a stranger on the internet is irrelevant to me. So, what are some of the countless things that all these churches agree on? Do you honestly believe that Christians don't care if their salvation in Jesus is unconditional or conditional? If that's the case, then why do Catholics believe that all salvation comes by Jesus Christ and through his one Catholic Church (How Protestants Are Saved)? Roman Catholics don't believe in the five solas (Sola scriptura, Sola fide, Sola Gratia, Solo Christo, and Soli Deo Gloria), but Bible-believing Christians believe them. In fact, the Christians I've encountered over the years either believe that salvation is by faith alone, not works, or they believe that their eternal salvation is conditional, and it must be worked out. Jehovah's Witnesses believe their salvation is conditional, and that's why they go door to door to evangelize. Honestly, your efforts to deny that there's nothing derisive in Christendom seems disingenuous to me.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You are welcome to your opinion, nevertheless there are close to 50,000 sects of christianity, who, being real christians are all to happy with conflict with other sects of christianity. It even happens on these pages.

It's common for some Christians to immediately fall back on the No True Scotsman fallacy whenever someone else mentions all the violence that Christians have committed throughout history, or a Christian commits a crime. It's their primary cop-out debate tactic.

 

[stvdv]

I did want to start a thread in this section to make you understand that there is not much to debate within Christendom.

IF TRUE

Why Evangelizing is such a big thing in Christendom?

 

[Estro Felino]

IF TRUE

Why Evangelizing is such a big thing in Christendom?

I don't think so.
It depends...
But I have seen evangelization very seldom in my life.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

IF TRUE

Why Evangelizing is such a big thing in Christendom?

I was actively involved in evangelism while I was still an evangelical Christian, and it was an important factor to me and to the other Christians I worked with. Ray Comfort and his Living Waters ministry played a significant part in our concentrated effort to 'Go and make disciples of all the nations.' As a matter of fact, I purchased his books, his lectures on CD, his evangelism Bible, and his gospel tracks. I regularly watched his television program and videos of him preaching, too. I was also one of the lead administrators of a Facebook group for his ministry. I knew his teaching inside and out, and I bet I could recite it in my sleep. I used his recommended methods of evangelism when I came into contact with other people, and I was a real pain in the behind whenever I tried to preach like he did. I finally stopped being involved with the ministry after I was tangled up in a distressing confrontation between myself and a few other people in the Facebook group. Looking back, I'm actually ashamed of the way I talked to other people when I tried to evangelize. Sadly, I've encountered many Christians who are just as crass and judgmental as I was when I was a Christian.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I suspect that part of the issue is the difference between those who might be called "Christian in name only" and the very few who truly live a life of love.

That's not a helpful or useful definition of a Christian to a non-Christian. Unbelievers don't have a behavior test for Christianity. They don't need to be knowledgeable about scripture, pray, avoid sin, or go to church. They can be murderers or pornographers. If they say they're Christian, they're Christian to me. Isn't that the definition of Christian in sentences like "Christianity is the largest religion in the world," "America is a Christian nation," or "81% of white evangelical Christian Americans voted for Trump in 2016"? There's no test for Christianity in any of those beyond claiming to be one in some survey or census.

And if you think about it, you probably have no such test for Muslims, for example, apart from someone claiming to be a Muslim. Have you ever told anybody that they're not a true Muslim? Do you have any other test or requirement to call him Muslim? I doubt it, just as I've never called anybody not a true Christian.

What interests the outsider is not what's written in scripture or how the religion sees and promotes itself, but how it is actually rendered, and what positive and negative influences it has on individuals and societies, and includes what fraction of its adherents are what you might call not true Christians. They vote, too. Many are homophobes and atheophobes. Many are misogynists and xenophobes. Many are anti-intellectual. Many would pierce the state-church wall and impose their dogma on unbelievers using the force of government. They appeared at the insurrection with religious banners. They populate the white supremacist groups and were proudly spewing anti-Semitic tropes at Charlottesville.

They're all Christians to me, real Christians, actual Christians.

 

[JerusalemBull]

Do not see anything wrong

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That's not a helpful or useful definition of a Christian to a non-Christian. Unbelievers don't have a behavior test for Christianity. They don't need to be knowledgeable about scripture, pray, avoid sin, or go to church. They can be murderers or pornographers. If they say they're Christian, they're Christian to me. Isn't that the definition of Christian in sentences like "Christianity is the largest religion in the world," "America is a Christian nation," or "81% of white evangelical Christian Americans voted for Trump in 2016"? There's no test for Christianity in any of those beyond claiming to be one in some survey or census.

And if you think about it, you probably have no such test for Muslims, for example, apart from someone claiming to be a Muslim. Have you ever told anybody that they're not a true Muslim? Do you have any other test or requirement to call him Muslim? I doubt it, just as I've never called anybody not a true Christian.

What interests the outsider is not what's written in scripture or how the religion sees and promotes itself, but how it is actually rendered, and what positive and negative influences it has on individuals and societies, and includes what fraction of its adherents are what you might call not true Christians. They vote, too. Many are homophobes and atheophobes. Many are misogynists and xenophobes. Many are anti-intellectual. Many would pierce the state-church wall and impose their dogma on unbelievers using the force of government. They appeared at the insurrection with religious banners. They populate the white supremacist groups and were proudly spewing anti-Semitic tropes at Charlottesville.

They're all Christians to me, real Christians, actual Christians.

Well said, It Aint Necessarily So. You're spot on, in my opinion.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning

 

[sun rise]

That's not a helpful or useful definition of a Christian to a non-Christian. Unbelievers don't have a behavior test for Christianity.

Well, I'm not a Christian. And I do have a behavior test.

And if you think about it, you probably have no such test for Muslims, for example, apart from someone claiming to be a Muslim.

I have a test from Meher Baba:

God has come again and again in various forms, has spoken again and again in different words and different languages the Same One Truth — but how many are there that live up to it? Instead of making Truth the vital breath of life, man compromises by making over and over again a mechanical religion of it — as a handy staff to lean on in times of adversity, as a soothing balm for his conscience or as a tradition to be followed in the footsteps of the past. Man’s inability to live God’s words makes them a mockery.

How many Christians follow Christ’s teaching to “turn the other cheek,” or “to love thy neighbour as thyself?” How many Muslims follow Muhammad’s precept to “hold God above everything else?” How many Hindus “bear the torch of righteousness at all cost?” How many Buddhists live the “life of pure compassion?” How many Zoroastrians “think truly, speak truly, act truly?”

 

[Neuropteron]

I did want to start a thread in this section to make you understand that there is not much to debate within Christendom.

All Christians are just One thing. They just love Jesus our Lord.

So there is nothing divisive within Christendom.
Just Love. And faith in Jesus Christ
]

Hi,

I wish I could agree with you.

Can we really forget the major differences in Christendom
Some are:
Uniqueness of Jesus Virgin Birth.
One God or Trinity.
Necessity of the Cross for Salvation and Resurrection hope.
Second Coming .
Whether the scriptures are Inspired or not.
Not to mention different denomination.

Nothing to debate here ?
I suppose if we agree to disagree then there isn't.

 

[stvdv]

I was actively involved in evangelism while I was still an evangelical Christian, and it was an important factor to me and to the other Christians I worked with. Ray Comfort and his Living Waters ministry played a significant part in our concentrated effort to 'Go and make disciples of all the nations.' As a matter of fact, I purchased his books, his lectures on CD, his evangelism Bible, and his gospel tracks. I regularly watched his television program and videos of him preaching, too. I was also one of the lead administrators of a Facebook group for his ministry. I knew his teaching inside and out, and I bet I could recite it in my sleep. I used his recommended methods of evangelism when I came into contact with other people, and I was a real pain in the behind whenever I tried to preach like he did. I finally stopped being involved with the ministry after I was tangled up in a distressing confrontation between myself and a few other people in the Facebook group. Looking back, I'm actually ashamed of the way I talked to other people when I tried to evangelize. Sadly, I've encountered many Christians who are just as crass and judgmental as I was when I was a Christian.

Thank you for sharing. Very honest.

It seems to me you went in deep, therefore you came out knowing in depth "It's not the right thing to do anymore".

I went to a Baptist Church, I loved the "Praise God" songs, its a Mega Church, 3 services on Sunday, and I went to all of them. I did "know" that their evangelizing was not "right" (not Dharmic), but only after 3 years I could really feel it in every cell of me how "bad" and destructive evangelism is, because its based on the lie "My way is the highway" and even worse "belittling the other's (non) Faith in the process". IF they just share enthusiastically their love for Christ, Jesus, Christianity then it's fine.
@stvdvRF

 

[stvdv]

Looking back, I'm actually ashamed of the way I talked to other people when I tried to evangelize. Sadly, I've encountered many Christians who are just as crass and judgmental as I was when I was a Christian.

Feeling ashamed is a useful emotion as it helps me to "know" it was not my best action and to determine to "say sorry to those I hurt" and to transform myself and stop those actions.

After "saying sorry" the emotion "shame" is not useful anymore. If I "refuse to say" sorry after making a mistake, I can't shake "my created and sustained shame feelings", and that proves how well God created everything. Conscience is a perfect "tool" to balance things. The Universe is all about balance (Yin Yang principle is genius).

Also I believe that God is the creator of everything, also of the stupid things I do, because only if I personally experience my own mistakes I can transform them. So it seems to me that its all part of God's Master Plan
@stvdvRF

 

[stvdv]

They just love Jesus our Lord.

IF they just love Jesus their Lord

THEN indeed there is nothing divisive within Christendom

So there is nothing divisive within Christendom

Just Love. And faith in Jesus Christ

Perfect

 

[stvdv]

View attachment 59711

Political between a Catholic and Protestant

What a friendly smiling girl, even if it would be used to "say" that I made a foolish remark, that would make my day

 

[stvdv]

Here it is light years away from that.
The Mormon Church few blocks away from the Catholic shrine.
They respect each other.

Good to hear that Mormons and Catholics are so respectful (non judgmental)
We have a Mega Baptist Church here, all its members are judgmental

 

[stvdv]

Yup, no disagreements at all

Lucky you

 

[stvdv]

I suspect that part of the issue is the difference between those who might be called "Christian in name only" and the very few who truly live a life of love.

#MeToo

@Estro Felino does the argument no favor by ignoring history and the crimes committed in the name of religion

I agree

The Bible itself draws the distinction (for any who care what the Bible says):

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Very clear
Sai Baba said it similar. Many people call themselves devotees (followers who love their Master) of Sai Baba, Jesus etc. But there are 3 criteria a devotee should live by: 1) Think of "God" 24/7 + 2)... + 3)....

 

[stvdv]

They're all Christians to me, real Christians, actual Christians

When contemplating on this, I go back to the name "Christ". If someone is "Christ-like" it's about time to call the person "Christian".

 

[Estro Felino]

Good to hear that Mormons and Catholics are so respectful (non judgmental)
We have a Mega Baptist Church here, all its members are judgmental

Why are you so surprised?
Your king is the emblem of a Protestant Church, and married a Catholic woman.

 

[stvdv]

Why are you so surprised?
Your king is the emblem of a Protestant Church, and married a Catholic woman.

My king? You mean Jesus?
Jesus is an emblem of the Catholic Church too, right?
Married a Catholic woman? You mean Jesus married Maria? I can't believe that