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Christian: Arminianism vs. Calvinism
- Thread starter FerventGodSeeker
- Start date
I have asked a very pointed question which paraphrased is "Do you Calvinists believe that God is the author of sin"
You Calvinists go all around the houses answering a different question except that one. I firmly believe you do believe that God is the author of sin but you are not brave enough to say so. Unlike John Calvin you have not really got the courage of your convictions because John Calvin unequivocally answered 'yes - God is the author of every ones sins. Both the saved and the reprobate'.
Prove it you say - OK
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 4
"I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will."
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 6
God ... arranges all things by his counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death.
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7
"Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree." "And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision..
Did God even force Adam and Eve to sin. No ? Well Calvin says yes, God did.
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7
God not only foresaw the fall off the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity: but also at his own pleasure arranged it.
A W Pink - A hardline Calvanist concurs - Yes God is the Author of every ones sin. Ref The Sovereignty of God pp 83-84
"we assuredly gather it was His everlasting determination so to do; and consequently that He reprobated some from before the foundation of the world"
A W Pink From The Sovereignty of God in Reprobation Chapter 5
If then God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass then He must have decreed that vast numbers of human beings should pass out of this world unsaved to suffer eternally in the Lake of Fire.
No I am not waving the flag for arminianism.
What I am saying is that Calvanist are not quite as honest with themselves or any body else. If I am wrong then answer the question as directly and as boldly as Calvin and Pink to name but two.
The problem it leaves me though is there is a huge amount of scripture that suggest differently. I have no idea how to reconcile that. I believe it needs to be done if only to stop the onward rise of Islam.
Not good Huh
You Calvinists go all around the houses answering a different question except that one. I firmly believe you do believe that God is the author of sin but you are not brave enough to say so. Unlike John Calvin you have not really got the courage of your convictions because John Calvin unequivocally answered 'yes - God is the author of every ones sins. Both the saved and the reprobate'.
Prove it you say - OK
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 4
"I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will."
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 6
God ... arranges all things by his counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death.
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7
"Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree." "And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision..
Did God even force Adam and Eve to sin. No ? Well Calvin says yes, God did.
Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7
God not only foresaw the fall off the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity: but also at his own pleasure arranged it.
A W Pink - A hardline Calvanist concurs - Yes God is the Author of every ones sin. Ref The Sovereignty of God pp 83-84
"we assuredly gather it was His everlasting determination so to do; and consequently that He reprobated some from before the foundation of the world"
A W Pink From The Sovereignty of God in Reprobation Chapter 5
If then God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass then He must have decreed that vast numbers of human beings should pass out of this world unsaved to suffer eternally in the Lake of Fire.
No I am not waving the flag for arminianism.
What I am saying is that Calvanist are not quite as honest with themselves or any body else. If I am wrong then answer the question as directly and as boldly as Calvin and Pink to name but two.
The problem it leaves me though is there is a huge amount of scripture that suggest differently. I have no idea how to reconcile that. I believe it needs to be done if only to stop the onward rise of Islam.
Not good Huh
marky mark
Member
God created man good and upright, without sin, only the "possibility" to sin. If the man chooses to sin, this does not make God the author of sin. James 1:13-"Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." The same question could be asked: If God knew Satan would sin and Adam would sin, then why did He create?
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
I do not know much about Armeniaism, but I know about Calvanism and I completly disagree with Calvanism.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
I certainly do not subscribe to TULIP and the Armininianism version is no better.
Both are Arguments based on dubious logic.
Neither is supported by Jesus Teachings But both can be traced to selective interpretations of St. Paul's writings.
Both are Arguments based on dubious logic.
Neither is supported by Jesus Teachings But both can be traced to selective interpretations of St. Paul's writings.