Christian Evolutionist:

[Autodidact]

Ok...lets do the fruit fly thing.

Where were these experiments on the fruit flies conducted?

Read the studies, Heneni. All the cites are in the material I directed you to.

 

[Autodidact]

You still dont know do you? Shall we just say...that unless you can tell me, WHAT evolution predicts we will evolve into and why we have only advanced technologically for the last 6000 years or so if we have been on this earth for a VERY long time....you dont really have anything i want to hear. Im sure you can answer that easily right. So give me the answer and lets move on swiftly to the fruit flies.

Heneni

ToE makes many predictions. It does not, nor need it, predict what anything will evolve into next. Your other question is not a question about evolution--it's a question about anthropology. And no, I don't know the answer, which would probably take a couple of long books to explain. You might like Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond, which addresses some of these issues.

 

[Autodidact]

Um...we were no bigger than a fruit fly before...according to evolution...so we must have evolved at a phenominal rate and then slowed down...but instead we have boomed into techno bliss the last 6000years or so?

Do you have another answer?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

[painted wolf]

So explain to me how do these fruit flies mutate?

Point mutations are when a single amino-acid changes in the DNA sequence.
Insertion mutations are when transposable elements get added during replication
Deletion mutations happen basically the same way.
Gene duplications happen when a gene is mistakenly copied twice.
Then there are Fusions, where two chromosomes fuse together to make a larger chromosome.

That is how mutation happens. Happens quite often.

wa:do

 

[Father Heathen]

It pains me to watch Heneni diminish her own character and integrity like this. She should've had the dignity to bow out instead of resorting to such dishonest and desperate tactics. What does she hope to achieve? She can't honestly expect that anyone will actually join her to wallow in willful ignorance and self deceit, can she? And to think that all of this nonsense has to do with what some ancient, primitive bronze age goat herders wrote in some silly, superstitious old book.

 

[Autodidact]

I didnt ask you to fall over and play dead while I 'apparently' STUMP the evolutionists.

I'm a sceptic of evolution. Did you expect the whole world to go...ooohhh ahhhh evolotion is just the THING. Well your wrong. ANd your also wrong to think that people who call themselves scientists havent 'come up' with evidence to support an otherwise flawed theory.

Heneni

so basically you're really suspicious of Biologists in particular? Not other scientists, like chemists, just biologists? Don't you think that to criticize the theory, you would first need to know what it says, then what the evidence is in its favor?

 

[Autodidact]

I wonder when autodidact will give me HER answer...or is she happy that mball came to her resque...and everybody elses.

My answer to what?

 

[Heneni]

Heneni,

I think in order to get to the root of the issue here, you should tell us how you came to your position on evolution.

Was it through thorough and careful study of the subject? If so, what specific materials did you study? What classes did you take? What books and/or published papers did you read? What conferences and/or symposia did you attend?

If it was via some other route, what was it?

have you read the bible? did you go to bible school? Were you raised in a religious home...what influences your beliefs about a god/non god..

Its not what this thread is about. You might very well know more about religion than i think. And i could very well know more about the scientific method than you think.

Also its a very effective intimidation method to require people to be some sort of evoltion expert before they DARE question it. Most people (unfortunately) think that because scientists have said its so, it should be so...but the truth is there are many scientists sceptic of the evolution theory.

How can you question evolution? Have you read books about it? Have you gone to uni and studied it...and most people will probably say no...That usually the easiest way to intimidate people into shutting up and accepting it....what do THEY know right?

Evolution is sounding more and more like a religion.

 

[Autodidact]

Do you believe god made everything...

Heneni

Remember, my posts in this thread are all based on the assumption that God made everything. We're using science to try to figure out how, because that's what science is about.

 

[challupa]

Aaah you needent worry. I dont get on well with people who believe that fish grew legs so they can walk on land. I wonder if they thought...oh my goodness....WHAT is this THING growing out of me? What in the lords name is it for?

It must have slowed them down, and made them weak, therefore they were bound to be eaten rather than crawl out of the water and onto land.

Besides half a leg is no good unless it is useful. And so while its growing into a leg its completely useless yet evolution says that for millions of years these animals had leg flippers so that one day millions of years into the future...one of them could crawl onto land. Of course by that time the environment changed and what do you know...there is a flood, and then they wished they didnt have legs..

its a cruel world after all.:cold:

Well dear, at least you have a sense of humor LOL

 

[painted wolf]

don't forget about distrusting Genetists and Biochemists.
Anthropologist, Physicists, Astronomers, Geologists, Climatologists, Paleontologists and so on.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

Something i have found to be interesting though is how quickly a mob can gather, and statistically and from experience the greatest number of mobsters are usually

1. Atheists
2. Evolutionists and/or
3. New agers.

I think i should write a paper about it.

So painted wolf...back to your fruit flies...or does anybody want to get another jab in before we continue..


Heneni is this....

Heneni is that....


:witch:

Sounds like those religious bigots who chase people out of churches and burn witches at the stake just because they dont agree.

And of course youd much rather me be in the 'humble' position of wating to 'learn' more about the topic when in fact i dont care much about the topic, im trying to establish scientific credibality. I dont have to know EVERYTHING about evolution to know about

Hypothesis
Variables
Method
Observations
Results
conclustions
Etc....etc...

Back to the fruit flies...

So explain to me how do these fruit flies mutate?

heneni

It sounds like you find it upsetting when people disagree with you. Maybe you should post on an exclusively creationist board.

 

[Autodidact]

Sorry painted wolf ill try to be more precise:

If the experiments are conducted in a lab...what are the conditions in the lab? The temperature, pressure, lighting, is there any radiation, are they starved...what are the dependant and independant variables and what are the controlled variables?

Read the articles. I have shown you where to find them.

If you're trying to find flaws in the research protocols, I assure you these are all from reputable scientific journals where people much more knowledgeable than you have done that at great length.

 

[Heneni]

Hello autodidact: And im rather busy with painted wolf about the fruit flies. If i have time ill study your inserts about flies.

Im investigating the scientific method used with fruit flies experiments. Thanks. Do go back and check the questions i have asked you. And do try to put more answers into one post..there is no need to post twenty questions after each other. Its not going to make it a new argument...its just going to bump up the page numbers.

Heneni

 

[Autodidact]

Something i have found to be interesting though is how quickly a mob can gather, and statistically and from experience the greatest number of mobsters are usually

1. Atheists
2. Evolutionists and/or
3. New agers.

I think i should write a paper about it.

So painted wolf...back to your fruit flies...or does anybody want to get another jab in before we continue..


Heneni is this....

Heneni is that....


:witch:

Sounds like those religious bigots who chase people out of churches and burn witches at the stake just because they dont agree.

And of course youd much rather me be in the 'humble' position of wating to 'learn' more about the topic when in fact i dont care much about the topic, im trying to establish scientific credibality. I dont have to know EVERYTHING about evolution to know about

Hypothesis
Variables
Method
Observations
Results
conclustions
Etc....etc...

Back to the fruit flies...

So explain to me how do these fruit flies mutate?

heneni

DNA is like a string of letters (sort of.) When the organism reproduces, the letters have to be "copied." It would be about like copying an encyclopedia. Occasionally there are copying errors, say two letters are reversed for example. We call those mutations. Are you trying to deny that there are such a thing as mutations?

 

[Autodidact]

Also its a very effective intimidation method to require people to be some sort of evoltion expert before they DARE question it. Most people (unfortunately) think that because scientists have said its so, it should be so...but the truth is there are many scientists sceptic of the evolution theory.

It's fine to question it; everything should be questioned. What you're not in a position to do is to reject it, without even knowing what it is. Surely you can see that's just stupid?

How can you question evolution? Have you read books about it? Have you gone to uni and studied it...and most people will probably say no...That usually the easiest way to intimidate people into shutting up and accepting it....what do THEY know right?

Well, what do you know? Don't you think someone should at least know what Christianity is before saying it's wrong? How about atomic theory? If I don't know anything about it, do I have much credibility in arguing that it's ridiculous to argue that solid substances are mostly empty space, and the only solid part is whirling around at supersonic speeds? Don't you think that if I want to argue that, I should at least understand atomic theory, and why Chemistry came to accept it?

Evolution is sounding more and more like a religion.

In what way?

 

[Heneni]

DNA is like a string of letters (sort of.) When the organism reproduces, the letters have to be "copied." It would be about like copying an encyclopedia. Occasionally there are copying errors, say two letters are reversed for example. We call those mutations. Are you trying to deny that there are such a thing as mutations?

I asked painted wolf and i qualified what i needed to know. Thank you. She is a biologist (well so she says) and though she has some very strange idea about god, she is after all a biologist so id rather talk to her about the experiments.

 

[3.14]

its simple do you belief things change?
what would change first the smallest part or a lare part?
would parts ever stop changing?
are we perfect?

 

[Autodidact]

Hello autodidact: And im rather busy with painted wolf about the fruit flies. If i have time ill study your inserts about flies.

Please do so before asking the questions that are answered there.

Im investigating the scientific method used with fruit flies experiments. Thanks. Do go back and check the questions i have asked you. And do try to put more answers into one post..there is no need to post twenty questions after each other. Its not going to make it a new argument...its just going to bump up the page numbers.

Heneni

I'll follow my own posting style, thanks. What questions do you want me to answer? I try to answer all questions addressed to me. Please re-post any you think I've missed. Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

So, Heneni, have you read my posts that explain how new species, families etc. evolve? Do you have any questions or problems with what's set out there?