"Christian Nationalism is Not Christianity"

[1213]

... Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? ...

Why do you think nationalism operates by force? I think some nationalists may operate by force, but same can be said about anti-nationalists or globalists. I don't think nationalism is wrong. In many cases it can be seen as sign of love to people of the nation. If there is a problem, the reason is something else, like greed, selfishness, lies and violence. All of those bad things can exist without nationalism as well.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism?

Christian Nationalism is a movement within Christianity, supported by some Christians and opposed by others.

Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim?

Christian Nationalism is most certainly Christian, but it's not the be-all and end-all of Christianity.

 

[QuestioningMind]

This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​

I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit

If the Christian Nationalists ever do take power in the US, soon thereafter we'll witness the Great American Religious Wars, in which all of the Christians will start fighting over which brand of Christianity will be the official state religion.

 

[PureX]

Hyper-nationalism has always been a cult phenomenon. It has also always been fueled by a desire for absolute control through unquestioned loyalty.

It has nothing to do with Christianity, and everything to do with cultural/collective ego. It's nothing more than a cultural expression of the Darwinian drive to establish "pecking orders" and then enforce them. With the nationalists as the alphas, of course. And this kind of thing can happen in any group of humans. Especially in groups of humans that are frightened and angry, and desperately looking for more control over their circumstances.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The point was Christian Nationalism isn't new amd we've suffered about 2000 years of Christians running the show and making attempts at forcing us all under their banner, typically and often to the detriment of others (especially Jews and other Christians).

Who is " we?"
In many places it's been just the opposite, with other religions forcing Christians to renounce thier faith or die.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If the Christian Nationalists ever do take power in the US, soon thereafter we'll witness the Great American Religious Wars, in which all of the Christians will start fighting over which brand of Christianity will be the official state religion.

Soon after Roe v. Wade was overruled, I overheard this statement in a political discussion: "The Handmaid's Tale is a warning, not a handbook." The main topics were the political activism of the conservative Supreme Court Justices; the MAGA Christians' conquest to control a woman's ability to decide what she can do with her own body; and the imminent threat that they and Trump pose to our democracy and to America itself. It was an interesting discussion. I occasionally added my two cents' worth, but I mostly just listened.

 

[Father Heathen]

...being Christian means to be faithful to one's nation,...

Where in the Bible does it say that?

 

[Father Heathen]

So I have some issues with the movement as I understand it. But most of the flaws are the overreach of government to micro manage our lives. I see people upset by CN while promoting socialism which commits the same core “crimes”.

Am I missing something?

False equivalency, again.

 

[ppp]

This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​

I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit

I appreciate the sentiment. She is wrong. But still, it's nice.

 

[Father Heathen]

But there has been plenty of times in history when Christians were the underdogs, persecuted and killed for their faith and it's still happening in many parts of the world.

But not here in the U.S., where they're in positions of power and wage war on science, equality, rights, and liberty.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

After...of course.
It seems to me that atheists are persecuted in no Christian country, in the 21st century.

It happens quite a bit in America, where Christians use their power to pass legislation that discriminates against atheists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who is " we?"

Society as a collective whole, both past and present.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Where in the Bible does it say that?

Nowhere, because that would be a misplaced faith that isn't placed in Jehovah.

 

[ppp]

. I don't think nationalism is wrong. In many cases it can be seen as sign of love to people of the nation.

Christian nationalism is a sign of love in the same way that a stalker groping and terrorizing his victims is an act of love.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I compare the situation involving Christianity akin with Israel.

Some say it's a Jewish state, a theocracy.

Others say it's not.

Officially it's a parliamentary democracy whereas the US is a representative republic.

I think its more a cultural issue than a nationalist one where you have a religion that becomes possessive leading to a false view of nationalism that the US is a Christian nation no more than Israel is a Jewish nation.


.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I think that each of us has their own vision of "Christianity".


My vision is:
Being Christian Nationalists is being Christians because being Christian means to be faithful to one's nation, to one's people.
I could also say that those who claim to be Christians and participate to occultist lodges, political sects, or believe in esotericism and in magic, are not real Christians.

Nationalists tend to be Dominionists. They think that America was founded as a Christian nation and want Christianity to be the only religion that gets recognition from the government.

 

[Sand Dancer]

But there has been plenty of times in history when Christians were the underdogs, persecuted and killed for their faith and it's still happening in many parts of the world.

It's generally from Muslim nations. It seems that Christianity and Islam want to fight to see who is the big dog in the world. The Jews don't seem to have as much pugilism in their views.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's generally from Muslim nations. It seems that Christianity and Islam want to fight to see who is the big dog in the world. The Jews don't seem to have as much pugilism in their views.

It also happens a lot under secular governments. There's a lot of Christian persecution in China for example. Christianity becoming an official religion has not always been so great, mainly because power corrupts. In some cases, the church itself was persecuting the real Christians, because they wanted to read the Bible themselves and such.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But not here in the U.S., where they're in positions of power and wage war on science, equality, rights, and liberty.

They are? I don't see a lot of Christians in positions of power. And they are generally the ones who fight for liberty.

 

[Kenny]

This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​

I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit

Ok, it is unfortunate that CNN is the point of information. As I find it to be filled with erroneous information and misapplication. the person he asked for an opinion, seems more like a "I have a viewpoint and so let me invite you to support my position in your speech" not to mention I don't agree with what she said (Too much to handle in one post and not sure how you would like me to address my points)

But not to detract from the issue... this is a quote that seems to hit a note in my view::


"(Christian Nationalism is a phrase sometimes used to intimidate Christian patriots who become active governmentally. “Nationalism” is a word defined in dictionaries by both positive and negative definitions, most of them actually being positive, such as “loyalty or devotion to one's country; patriotism.” Negative meanings of the word generally speak of excessive or irrational patriotism, at the exclusion of other people and nations. Therefore, Christian Nationalism can be arrogant exclusivism on the part of Christians, or it can simply be born-again patriots. Since it can be defined both ways, it has become a meaningless phrase, used by deceptive and dishonest individuals to make ignorant, confusing, self-serving, and inaccurate accusations. Therefore, I reject the label.

Biblically-based Christians and patriots understand that God loves all people and nations equally. Jesus died for the entire world. Though I believe He raised up America for world evangelization, as mentioned above, I do not believe this is an exclusive calling; all believers are called to this purpose.)

I believe both faith and patriotism demand prayer for and involvement in government, at whatever level a nation allows. The freedoms we enjoy in America make it irresponsible to not be diligently involved in governmental policies and elections." Dutch Sheets.

The CNN video really summarized (in my view) the "deceptive and dishonest" representation.