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"Christian Nationalism is Not Christianity"

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Not true. You may not understand the Constitution. Many do not. t is so odd that those on the right so often want the Constitution to be followed as the founders wrote it, except when it goes against their beliefs. The phrase "wall of separation between church and state" is not in the Bill of Right. That is true. But it was in a letter written by the author of that Amendment when he was explaining its purpose. It is funny how the Supreme Court just ignored that.
If you are talking about abortion, that's not a religious issue, it's a moral issue.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
" Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Anyone spreading "Christianity" by force was not following Christ at all, but only using his name to push their own agenda. As I said before, power corrupts, which is why a religion enforced by the government is never a good idea.
Following Christ isn't even a religion at it's core, BTW...it's not a set of rituals done to placate God. When it becomes that, it loses its power.
Sorry, but that is just a No True Scotsman Fallacy. And by that definition you are likely not a Christian yourself.

Like it or not Christianity was spread largely by the sword. Religions that did not use force were wiped out by those that did. That was the way that it used to be.

And you clearly do not know what a religion is. If you have a faith based belief then is almost always a religion. You forgot what it does have, dogma and sects. Two distinctive traits of religion.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you are talking about abortion, that's not a religious issue, it's a moral issue.
Strange how so many self declared Christians are on the wrong side. If you reason consistently abortion is a right.

And that was not about abortion. It was about another total failure of the Supreme Court.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
The point was Christian Nationalism isn't new amd we've suffered about 2000 years of Christians running the show and making attempts at forcing us all under their banner, typically and often to the detriment of others (especially Jews and other Christians).

Speak for yourself. Christians have a tendency to operate as a beneficial force in my life.

I honor and respect their culture, naturally. It is a religion whose history can be just as brutal as it is beautiful, and tells a story about their soul as individuals and as a people that I deeply resonate with. It is awesome, and powerful, and there is so much strength and wisdom to be found within Christianity… and beauty. The mystique. The wonder. The esoteric. The symbols, and the myriad of meaningful interpretations, then and now.

Christians in every place I’ve lived tend to welcome me into their networks with open arms. They have opened their churches, their social circles, sometimes even their homes. A demon like me, in a place like that… yet they still smile and welcome me. It is naive, it is hopelessly optimistic, and they are risking much… but it is appreciated, and I remember it. It feels good, to be honest. They look past the surface for something precious inside, they find it and they believe in it. They try to bring it out. Even if they fail, they don’t stop trying, because they know it is there and they do not give up.

So I remember those who have been there for me, despite our differences. Loyal friends, mentors, guides…. they are far more likely to find an ally in me.

As for nationalism… I have no issue with it all, Christian or otherwise. I am a nationalist myself… and I encourage it in everyone no matter where they are from.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
It also happens a lot under secular governments. There's a lot of Christian persecution in China for example. Christianity becoming an official religion has not always been so great, mainly because power corrupts. In some cases, the church itself was persecuting the real Christians, because they wanted to read the Bible themselves and such.
The real Christians were persecuting other real Christians. As well as non Christians. Have you seen it all through the history of Christianity including now.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
In your dreams. The conservatives are the ones who uphold the constitution while the liberals try to gut it.
The US conservatives have opposed every single expansion of equal rights and suffrage that has ever been proposed. Every single initiative to expand suffrage and equal rights under the law beyond the scope of landed white males has been directly, vocally, and often violently opposed by said conservatives. This includes but is not limited to slavery, women suffrage, labor laws, labor laws for children, education, credit, property ownership, marriage equality in all of its forms (race, religion, sexuality), religious freedom, government representation and participation, including voting rights. And so many more.

Every single one of those initiatives has been opposed by conservatives. This behavior continues today.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Speak for yourself. Christians have a tendency to operate as a beneficial force in my life.

I honor and respect their culture, naturally. It is a religion whose history can be just as brutal as it is beautiful, and tells a story about their soul as individuals and as a people that I deeply resonate with. It is awesome, and powerful, and there is so much strength and wisdom to be found within Christianity… and beauty. The mystique. The wonder. The esoteric. The symbols, and the myriad of meaningful interpretations, then and now.

Christians in every place I’ve lived tend to welcome me into their networks with open arms. They have opened their churches, their social circles, sometimes even their homes. A demon like me, in a place like that… yet they still smile and welcome me. It is naive, it is hopelessly optimistic, and they are risking much… but it is appreciated, and I remember it. It feels good, to be honest. They look past the surface for something precious inside, they find it and they believe in it. They try to bring it out. Even if they fail, they don’t stop trying, because they know it is there and they do not give up.

So I remember those who have been there for me, despite our differences. Loyal friends, mentors, guides…. they are far more likely to find an ally in me.

As for nationalism… I have no issue with it all, Christian or otherwise. I am a nationalist myself… and I encourage it in everyone no matter where they are from.
I'm not. I met a "follower of Christ" who won't call herself a Christian because of they're often hypocrites.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Exactly. Christianity isn't an American religion, it's a global religion, and perhaps even further one day. Jesus did not spread the love specifically to Americans, but to all Christians. Religion is not identical to nationality. Even in Judaism. You can be a citizen of Israel and not a member of the Jewish faith.

I'd like to hear some people who actually do believe that Americanism is identical to Christian. This forum tends to attract more so the liberals so people on the other side seem not to say as much.

Many fundamentalists think that America is the new Promised Land and Christians are the chosen people.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Wow, Danes? I wouldn't have thought. Yeah, we are smart to keep church and state separate.
Yeah, the Norse were known for hating Christianity and being especially brutal towards members of the clergy when they invaded Briton and Ireland.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
It also happens a lot under secular governments. There's a lot of Christian persecution in China for example. Christianity becoming an official religion has not always been so great, mainly because power corrupts. In some cases, the church itself was persecuting the real Christians, because they wanted to read the Bible themselves and such.

North Korea too I think. The other countries that persecute are, sadly, religious ones. Just get along, people!
 

InChrist

Free4ever
This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​


I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:


While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit
I don’t consider Christian nationalism or sometimes called Dominion/Kingdom Now theology to be compatible with biblical Christianity. I think it’s clear from Scripture and history that our God-given assignment is not to take dominion over unregenerate individuals, nor to attempt taking control over human government, but rather to preach the gospel, see souls saved, and make disciples. Yet, too many succumb to the temptation to “Christianize” the nation and ultimately, the world, rather than obey Christ.
This world is not our home.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Nationalists tend to be Dominionists. They think that America was founded as a Christian nation and want Christianity to be the only religion that gets recognition from the government.
Actually, no. They respect all religions, they just want certain Christian principles to inspire the law-making process.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It happens quite a bit in America, where Christians use their power to pass legislation that discriminates against atheists.

There is a cultural divide between Christians and atheists in the US
which doesn't exist in Europe.
You will see atheists and Christians being together
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Where in the Bible does it say that?
In countless passages from both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The kings of Israel who betrayed their own nation and people were punished by God.
Most of them used to adopt foreign customs, mostly from Phoenician and Acadian lands, and there are numerous passages that call them traitors to the fatherland.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
There is a cultural divide between Christians and atheists in the US
which doesn't exist in Europe.
You will see atheists and Christians being together
Keep in mind that is mostly a news media manufactured divide. It keeps the eyes and ears on the ads to foment outrage. And of course the republicans use it to demonize their political opponents. But the general population is not nearly so divided ideologically. The extremists are actually a small minority.
 
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