"Christian Nationalism is Not Christianity"

[Estro Felino]

Keep in mind that is mostly a news media manufactured divide. It keeps the eyes and ears on the ads to foment outrage. And of course the republicans use it to demonize their political opponents. But the general population is not nearly so divided ideologically. The extremists are actually a small minority.

That's the point. There are the elites who push for the manufactured divided, by bribing mainstream media.
Divide et impera, which means "divide the people, so you can impose them anything". Because people will naively think that their enemy is the neighbor who is an atheist, and not the elites.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Ok, it is unfortunate that CNN is the point of information. As I find it to be filled with erroneous information and misapplication. the person he asked for an opinion, seems more like a "I have a viewpoint and so let me invite you to support my position in your speech" not to mention I don't agree with what she said (Too much to handle in one post and not sure how you would like me to address my points)

But not to detract from the issue... this is a quote that seems to hit a note in my view::


"(Christian Nationalism is a phrase sometimes used to intimidate Christian patriots who become active governmentally. “Nationalism” is a word defined in dictionaries by both positive and negative definitions, most of them actually being positive, such as “loyalty or devotion to one's country; patriotism.” Negative meanings of the word generally speak of excessive or irrational patriotism, at the exclusion of other people and nations. Therefore, Christian Nationalism can be arrogant exclusivism on the part of Christians, or it can simply be born-again patriots. Since it can be defined both ways, it has become a meaningless phrase, used by deceptive and dishonest individuals to make ignorant, confusing, self-serving, and inaccurate accusations. Therefore, I reject the label.

Biblically-based Christians and patriots understand that God loves all people and nations equally. Jesus died for the entire world. Though I believe He raised up America for world evangelization, as mentioned above, I do not believe this is an exclusive calling; all believers are called to this purpose.)

I believe both faith and patriotism demand prayer for and involvement in government, at whatever level a nation allows. The freedoms we enjoy in America make it irresponsible to not be diligently involved in governmental policies and elections." Dutch Sheets.

The CNN video really summarized (in my view) the "deceptive and dishonest" representation.

What would your term be for Christians that want to make America a Christian country where Christian beliefs are exalted above others and the barrier between Christianity and secular government is removed?

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​

I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit

Thanks for posting this. I found it helpful to better understand how Christianity and politics have become entangled, often for the worst.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Actually, no. They respect all religions, they just want certain Christian principles to inspire the law-making process.

Well then, there's a difference between Nationalists and Dominionists. Dominionists are worse.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well then, there's a difference between Nationalists and Dominionists. Dominionists are worse.

Those are fundamentalists and anti-secularists.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The US conservatives have opposed every single expansion of equal rights and suffrage that has ever been proposed. Every single initiative to expand suffrage and equal rights under the law beyond the scope of landed white males has been directly, vocally, and often violently opposed by said conservatives. This includes but is not limited to slavery, women suffrage, labor laws, labor laws for children, education, credit, property ownership, marriage equality in all of its forms (race, religion, sexuality), religious freedom, government representation and participation, including voting rights. And so many more.

Every single one of those initiatives has been opposed by conservatives. This behavior continues today.

I guess you are talking about democrats? Because they were the ones pushing slavery to continue.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The real Christians were persecuting other real Christians. As well as non Christians. Have you seen it all through the history of Christianity including now.

They can't be real if they are doing the opposite of what Jesus taught.

 

[Wildswanderer]

By worshiping Christ as a god, requiring baptism, prayer, arbitrary rules, etc. it is indeed a religion.

It's not a set of rules and rituals that saves anyone.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Strange how so many self declared Christians are on the wrong side. If you reason consistently abortion is a right.

And that was not about abortion. It was about another total failure of the Supreme Court.

The constitution has nothing in it about a right to kill your offspring.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Like it or not Christianity was spread largely by the sword.

No, a religion was spread that wasn't truly Christianity at all.
There was a reason they didn't want the common people to have the scriptures because they knew that they weren't following them.

 

[wellwisher]

This is a quote from Amanda Tyler, the executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and the lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, in the video below. In the interview she articulates,

"Christian Nationalism is not Christianity. Christian Nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge our identity as Americans and as Christians. And in the process it threatens American democracy. It distorts America's promise of religious freedom for all. And importantly to me and thousands of other Christians, it distorts Christianity, sometimes beyond recognition. That's because it takes Christianity's central message, which is a gospel of love, and turns it into a false idol of power. It confuses our allegiances to God, and replaces it with an ultimate allegiance to Country."​

I have found recently this defining of what Christianity Nationalism is, as something different than Christianity to be helpful to me in sorting out my own feelings about the Christian religion. I sought out the Christian religion to help me with spiritual questions earlier in my life. And while I found some nourishment in some of the practices and teachings, the religion itself I was part of became polluted with what I now understand recently is, this Christian Nationalist view. At the time, it conflicted with the spiritual heart of my faith, which was about seeking the unconditional love of God.

Instead, this Christian Nationalism was being superimposed on the Christianity of faith I was searching, as it was the taking of Christian truths and symbols and using them for political power and advantage. It became all about us vs. them, the right vs. the wrong, and so forth. On a spiritual level, while a student in one of their Bible colleges hearing all this rhetoric from the Christian Right in the early 80's, I kept hearing in my head "By their fruits you shall know them". Eventually, I broke free from that as, even though I didn't know where to go afterward, as I knew this was not the Spirit of Love that I felt in my heart spiritually, nor what I could read from scriptures as a theology major, and I felt spiritually compelled to make a break from them.

Yesterday, I found this article from the magazine Christianity Today, while talking with @KenS in another thread. It perfectly articulates the same things the woman in the video says, and what I myself experienced and think about it now today. This is a good article I recommend reading:

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

While I will acknowledge you may have those who are sincere in their desires for Christian faith, like I was when it was attempting to suck me in back in the 80's, they are getting culled out into this Nationalist Identity stuff under the name of Christianity. Christian Nationalism itself is at its heart to me, and many others who identify with Christianity in some way or another, as the very opposite of the teachings of Jesus. The two are not really compatible with each other, as Christianity operates from Love, which is invitational, and Nationalism operates by Force, which is violent and oppressive. It seeks to impose, not to transform. It seeks to dominate politically, and through physical violence as necessary. What you saw on Jan. 6, with violent insurrectionists praying in Jesus' name in the Senate chambers, was not Christianity. It was Christian Nationalism. I would go so far as to identify it as "wolves in sheep's clothing", for that very reason.

What are your thoughts? Is there a difference for you between Christianity and Christian Nationalism? Is Christian Nationalism not Christianity at all, as many Christians claim? I would have to say I don't believe it is either. "By their fruits you shall know them Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?".

@Orbit

I disagree with this. The United State is a land of laws that are made though elected officials. If Christians seek nationalism this simply means they wish to be more organized so they can be more of a part of the process that makes and mold the laws of the country. Their goal is to make the laws more in the image of God; single justice system, instead of in the image of godless; dual justice system. The white privilege scam of the godless Left is about promoting dual justice, and divisiveness, no matter which way you look at it.

The goal of Christian Nationalism is not a theocracy, since the Constitution says that the state cannot establish any religion. Christians love and endorse the Constitution, which adds checks and balances.The godless are the one's that hate the Constitution. They wish to establish a godless version of theocracy. The religious want to maintain the open and free role of religion, as an agent for change at all levels of culture. That Constitutional right was under attack for many decades. The godless pushed too far and woke the sleeping giant, who realized they needed to organize to defend themselves via the political process.

Without nationalism and pride in one's nation, there is no way for the religious to organize in the numbers needed to make things better; voting and participating in the American law making process. The godless side is more organized and from their better organization, they have been able to make godless laws that even target people who resist them.The Godless are the ones who hate the Constitution and the checks and balances that prevent such bad behavior. The would prefer the Communist manifesto.

This fear mongering about religious nationalism is from the godless propaganda machine who no longer have it easy, without any organized pushback. Who ever thought killing the unborn by the millions would be the way of the land. The godless made this law and it was only after the religious organized via nationalism did it change, part way, back to the states of more discussion; merciful half way house for a cool down. As long as the godless can scam or shame the faithful not to organize, they can have their way. But the way America is designed, is the will of the people rules; better team wins.

One has to remember that Christianity is not a static religion but has evolved ever since it began. It was originally the religion of the slaves. It was persecuted and nearly exterminated. This is the image the godless wished and still wish, for the Christians. But as Christianity endured it evolved to became the official religion of Rome in 4th century AD. It majority roots are really a blend of religion and advanced secular. Nationalism is normal based on any time average. This has been a winning formula for centuries and it is now ready to address the inner enemies of the American dream, through the political process. One can tell this is working by the types of propaganda that the godless smoke machine bellows.

 

[ppp]

I guess you are talking about democrats? Because they were the ones pushing slavery to continue.

No, I am talking about conservatives. Irrespective of their political party. Yeesh.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Keep in mind that is mostly a news media manufactured divide. It keeps the eyes and ears on the ads to foment outrage. And of course the republicans use it to demonize their political opponents. But the general population is not nearly so divided ideologically. The extremists are actually a small minority.

Keep in mind America has a problem with Evangelicals many other Western countries don't have. Like trying to dictate what's taught in schools, denying evolution, not letting gays adopt, and possessing a zeal to force a religious society that we only see elsewhere from those like the Taliban (and they're getting more military and more open to using violence in America according to a some recent studies).
Yes, there is a real divide here and it was created by and is entirely sustained by Evangelical Christians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Their goal is to make the laws more in the image of God; single justice system, instead of in the image of godless; dual justice system.

That is illegal and unconstitutional.

The white privilege scam of the godless Left

Baseless nonsense RW Christians still inexplicably--and shamefully--believe. It's not true so just drop it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is a cultural divide between Christians and atheists in the US
which doesn't exist in Europe.
You will see atheists and Christians being together

I've been told this by more than a few Europeans.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's not a set of rules and rituals that saves anyone.

Some say baptism is a prerequisite for salvation.

 

[Father Heathen]

Actually, no. They respect all religions, they just want certain Christian principles to inspire the law-making process.

Wrong. They're openly hostile towards Muslims, pagans, etc.

 

[Father Heathen]

I guess you are talking about democrats? Because they were the ones pushing slavery to continue.

Comparing the modern Democratic party to the one circa 1800's is dopey and disingenuous.

Do you think those that fly the Confederate flag today vote democrat? Why are most of the southern states 'red'?

 

[Father Heathen]

I disagree with this. The United State is a land of laws that are made though elected officials. If Christians seek nationalism this simply means they wish to be more organized so they can be more of a part of the process that makes and mold the laws of the country. Their goal is to make the laws more in the image of God; single justice system, instead of in the image of godless; dual justice system. The white privilege scam of the godless Left is about promoting dual justice, and divisiveness, no matter which way you look at it.

The goal of Christian Nationalism is not a theocracy, since the Constitution says that the state cannot establish any religion. Christians love and endorse the Constitution, which adds checks and balances.The godless are the one's that hate the Constitution. They wish to establish a godless version of theocracy. The religious want to maintain the open and free role of religion, as an agent for change at all levels of culture. That Constitutional right was under attack for many decades. The godless pushed too far and woke the sleeping giant, who realized they needed to organize to defend themselves via the political process.

Without nationalism and pride in one's nation, there is no way for the religious to organize in the numbers needed to make things better; voting and participating in the American law making process. The godless side is more organized and from their better organization, they have been able to make godless laws that even target people who resist them.The Godless are the ones who hate the Constitution and the checks and balances that prevent such bad behavior. The would prefer the Communist manifesto.

This fear mongering about religious nationalism is from the godless propaganda machine who no longer have it easy, without any organized pushback. Who ever thought killing the unborn by the millions would be the way of the land. The godless made this law and it was only after the religious organized via nationalism did it change, part way, back to the states of more discussion; merciful half way house for a cool down. As long as the godless can scam or shame the faithful not to organize, they can have their way. But the way America is designed, is the will of the people rules; better team wins.

One has to remember that Christianity is not a static religion but has evolved ever since it began. It was originally the religion of the slaves. It was persecuted and nearly exterminated. This is the image the godless wished and still wish, for the Christians. But as Christianity endured it evolved to became the official religion of Rome in 4th century AD. It majority roots are really a blend of religion and advanced secular. Nationalism is normal based on any time average. This has been a winning formula for centuries and it is now ready to address the inner enemies of the American dream, through the political process. One can tell this is working by the types of propaganda that the godless smoke machine bellows.

You can't pretend to value the constitution while actively attempting to violate the establishment clause of the first amendment.
Being prevented from persecuting isn't the same as being persecuted. When people stand up to defend people's rights and liberty from religious tyranny, those perpetrating it aren't the victims.

 

[ppp]

They can't be real if they are doing the opposite of what Jesus taught.

If that is your criteria, then none of you are real.