Christian, prove from scripture Astral projection is demonic

[Rapha]

Jollybear

Why can’t those in hell repent and love God and God then save them?

Since all of us have sinned (Romans 3:23) and continue to sin since we are still in the flesh (1 John 1:8-10), there continues to be an urgent need of forgiveness. The priority is to be forgiven by God whilst still on His world, for without our sins being forgiven we cannot enter heaven. Once a person dies, if it still has the sin chromosome DNA active then the soul will descend to hell.

If they repent and love God, why do they get tortured more?

The demons hate YHWH's name being mentioned so they torture those who beg for forgiveness even more.

Isn’t the blood of Jesus and the Spirit of God the answer to get out of it?

Yes

What sin are you holding onto to keep the demons in you? Also, why are you holding onto that sin if you don’t want the demons in you?

My family has done witchcraft. i have witnessed my mother in Tartarus. So maybe the demons in me are my family bloodline. i believe they deserve to be saved. If YHWH forgives them whilst they seek forgiveness and occupy a host body then its worth the risk.

Also, I thought you said the demon in you repented? Are you saying only one of them did and there are more in you that have not repented? And if they need a body to repent and the other ones in you are not repented, why are they in you then? (please answer all those questions each)

There are possibly 4 demons in me. One is a rapha that got activated on the day i begged the Lord to give me a chance to prove myself; to prove that i can put others first and myself last. 2 demons got removed that instant as the Lord came down to my right and they got blasted out of my body to my left. Another 1 works on a lunar cycle or 30 day curse as blackout's seem to happen on a 30 day lunar cycle curse. Well that is what the angel said. Finally i think there is a numerology demon that tempts me into the worthless mystism of the 11:11 Wake Up Call.

Wait a second, this statement sounds like you assume I have never had any demon/s ever come against me in my life. How do you know there is no demon like in my room right now, trying to beat me down in life? Why did I need you for a demon to know about me?

If the demon was there already, you would have gone into astral travel with no hesitation let alone posting a thread asking about it. The demon would have 'suggested' on alpha wavelengths words like 'its cool, do it now, its going to be exciting'.

How is being careful considered a temptation?

When a child looks at a hot cooker plate and is tempted to touch it, it doesn't matter how slow that hand descends onto the plate. When it touches there will be great regret for giving into the temptation.

Wait a second, first you compared astral travel to going outside the door of your house, some criminal might come in or they might not. Now you’re saying, even if someone does not come in, going outside your door, will lead you to hell anyway. Ok, my OBJECTIVE question is, if you go out your door of your house and no criminal comes in or gets you, how then does going outside your door, still lead you to hell? Why does it, WHY is it still a sin? What is the inherent sin about it?

Everyone is born a sinner. Everyone is born with their name out of the Book of Life. So if the born sinner doesn't repent, they will go to hell; fact. That fact is mentioned many times in the Bible.

Plus, why would Jesus hold someone accountable to something they do not know is evil?

This is the point of the spread of the Word of YHWH throughout the world. Everyone who can read, listen will know the difference between good and evil.

 

[Jollybear]

Since all of us have sinned (Romans 3:23) and continue to sin since we are still in the flesh (1 John 1:8-10), there continues to be an urgent need of forgiveness. The priority is to be forgiven by God whilst still on His world, for without our sins being forgiven we cannot enter heaven. Once a person dies, if it still has the sin chromosome DNA active then the soul will descend to hell.

You still have not answered my question. Why won’t God forgive a repented sinner in hell? Regardless of the sin chromosome DNA being active. How does this sin chromosome in DNA make God not forgive a repented soul once in hell?

The demons hate YHWH's name being mentioned so they torture those who beg for forgiveness even more.

Alright, so why does YHWH not come to their rescue?

Yes

If the blood of Jesus can break the demon and curse off your life, why has it not yet?

My family has done witchcraft. i have witnessed my mother in Tartarus. So maybe the demons in me are my family bloodline. i believe they deserve to be saved. If YHWH forgives them whilst they seek forgiveness and occupy a host body then its worth the risk.

So…the demons in you are not half angel, half human spirits, they are the souls of your family?

Also, again, I got to ask the question, I want a clear answer, nothing vague, why do they need a host body to be saved?

There are possibly 4 demons in me. One is a rapha that got activated on the day i begged the Lord to give me a chance to prove myself; to prove that i can put others first and myself last. 2 demons got removed that instant as the Lord came down to my right and they got blasted out of my body to my left. Another 1 works on a lunar cycle or 30 day curse as blackout's seem to happen on a 30 day lunar cycle curse. Well that is what the angel said. Finally i think there is a numerology demon that tempts me into the worthless mystism of the 11:11 Wake Up Call.

When Jesus came down to your right, why didn’t he just blast out all those demons?

If the demon was there already, you would have gone into astral travel with no hesitation let alone posting a thread asking about it. The demon would have 'suggested' on alpha wavelengths words like 'its cool, do it now, its going to be exciting'.

Again, you assume astral projection is dangerous and sinful when you make this statement. My statement that says I am careful, has nothing to do with a demon being here or not here, it has everything to do with my OWN MIND being careful and objective and critical and intelligent.

When a child looks at a hot cooker plate and is tempted to touch it, it doesn't matter how slow that hand descends onto the plate. When it touches there will be great regret for giving into the temptation.

How is it a temptation being careful? Nothing vague.

Everyone is born a sinner. Everyone is born with their name out of the Book of Life. So if the born sinner doesn't repent, they will go to hell; fact. That fact is mentioned many times in the Bible.

This is the point of the spread of the Word of YHWH throughout the world. Everyone who can read, listen will know the difference between good and evil.

Everyone who reads will not clearly “know” astral projection is evil from the bible. (assuming your correct about Jesus holding them accountable) Why would Jesus hold them accountable for this which they don’t “know”?

Also, answer my other question: if one astral projects and a demon does not attach itself to the body, why is the astral travel itself still lead one to hell? WHY, if the demon did not attach?

I want all my questions answered, everyone of them, clearly and without vagueness.

 

[Rapha]

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You still have not answered my question. Why won’t God forgive a repented sinner in hell? Regardless of the sin chromosome DNA being active. How does this sin chromosome in DNA make God not forgive a repented soul once in hell?

Hell is outside YHWH's juristiction. Everyone who choses hell, stays there for eternity.

Its all in the Book of Revelation. Have you read any parts or all of Revelation ?

Alright, so why does YHWH not come to their rescue?

Because they are all evil, sinful and chose hell instead of Heaven. And don't tell me they didn't know their fate, because ever since the Apple of Knowledge, common sense tells sinners where they are going to go on Judgement Day. Only NSA zombies don't know.

If the blood of Jesus can break the demon and curse off your life, why has it not yet?

i think the demons are still there. However, the curse is broken. The curses on the demons are still there and they need time to be forgiven.

So…the demons in you are not half angel, half human spirits, they are the souls of your family?

The Rephaim are half human half angel. Its all in the Book of Enoch.
Nephilim are part human DNA, part angel DNA. Some people are more human than angel. This world is exactly the same now as it was in the Days of Noah where 99.99% of the world population is tainted with angelic DNA. Blue eyes, low crowns and blond hair originates from the fallen watchers, Atlantas, Europe. Green/hazel eyes, black hair and high crown forheads originates from Lucifer and other fallen seraphs.
So looking at everyone in the world, its easy to see that everyone is contaminated with angel DNA.

Also, again, I got to ask the question, I want a clear answer, nothing vague, why do they need a host body to be saved?

i mentioned earlier that YHWH only hears words spoken to Him through prayer. Are you reading what i say ?
Spirits cannot speak words as they have no voice boxes (lyrinxs) !!!!!!! Remember

When Jesus came down to your right, why didn’t he just blast out all those demons?

Again, as already said, my task is to prove to other lost spirits that they can be forgiven by occupying my body and then speaking the Lords prayer using my voice box. Please remember this or i will classify this thread as dead.

How is it a temptation being careful? Nothing vague.

Soon you will find out that astral travel is a temptation when your spirit crashes into the Lake of Fire and burns. You have no intention of listening to anything i say. So find out that i am right, the hard way; on Judgement Day.

Everyone who reads will not clearly “know” astral projection is evil from the bible. (assuming your correct about Jesus holding them accountable) Why would Jesus hold them accountable for this which they don’t “know”?

Because the Spirit of the Lord will put a curious thought into their head to search the internet for people who have astral traveled and what those people say about demons possessing the empty host body.

i dare you to do any web search now, for astral travel and what dangers are associated with it. Low and behold, many new-age sites actually have the balls to admit the truth that there is a risk. They admit it, why can't you ?

Also, answer my other question: if one astral projects and a demon does not attach itself to the body, why is the astral travel itself still lead one to hell? WHY, if the demon did not attach?

As alreadddddddyyyy mentioned, everyone is a sinner at birth so unless they repent they will descend to hell on Judgement Day. If they astral travel and don't repent they go to hell. If they don't repent before they die, they go to hell.

Even if astral travel is neutral, if you don't repent in the name of Jesus Christ you will go to hell.

If you do astral travel then repent in the name of Jesus Christ followed by continuing to astral travel afterwards and then find out on Judgement Day that Jesus is angry at you for sinning by astral traveling more, don't expect any second chances to be forgiven at that moment in time. You will get none.

 

[Jollybear]

Hell is outside YHWH's juristiction. Everyone who choses hell, stays there for eternity.

YHWH created hell, and yet it’s outside his jurisdiction? Is anything outside YHWHS power or control? IS his arm too short to reach hell and save? He don’t have the power, or ability even though he created hell and has power over demons? Explain how this is so? Why does he not have jurisdiction over hell?

Its all in the Book of Revelation. Have you read any parts or all of Revelation ?

Many times, I wish I could make just a separate thread about the topic of hell. I have a massive biblical case that hell is NOT eternal torture. But, yea, I have read revelation many times.

Because they are all evil, sinful and chose hell instead of Heaven. And don't tell me they didn't know their fate, because ever since the Apple of Knowledge, common sense tells sinners where they are going to go on Judgement Day. Only NSA zombies don't know.

Remember, common sense is not common. Not everyone “KNOWS” THEY are going to hell. If they KNEW, then they would not go. If you knew you were going to fall into a pit when walking on a trail, then you would walk the other way. Why? Because you KNOW.

i think the demons are still there.

You think or you know the demons are still there?

However, the curse is broken. The curses on the demons are still there and they need time to be forgiven.

Why do they need time? Why does God just not forgiven them?

The Rephaim are half human half angel. Its all in the Book of Enoch.

Nephilim are part human DNA, part angel DNA. Some people are more human than angel. This world is exactly the same now as it was in the Days of Noah where 99.99% of the world population is tainted with angelic DNA. Blue eyes, low crowns and blond hair originates from the fallen watchers, Atlantas, Europe. Green/hazel eyes, black hair and high crown forheads originates from Lucifer and other fallen seraphs.

So there is no full blown humans around at all you say?

So looking at everyone in the world, its easy to see that everyone is contaminated with angel DNA.

Everyone? You said it was like the days of Noah, but Noah was not contaminated.

 

[Jollybear]

i mentioned earlier that YHWH only hears words spoken to Him through prayer. Are you reading what i say ?

Spirits cannot speak words as they have no voice boxes (lyrinxs) !!!!!!! Remember

Yea….I sure do remember, I remember very well actually, and don’t you remember that I asked another question in regards to that, do you remember that? And did you answer that? So, here it is again:

Why do spirits need a voice box to pray in order to be forgiven? Why can’t they just telepathically communicate with God and then God respond with forgiveness?

Remember, ALL my questions and all my points I want answered. If you really and truly believe I am in danger of hell, and then you will care enough to answer all my questions and points, if you don’t, then I will know you truly don’t care about my soul and I will then surely mention that to God. Remember what the scripture says? “son of man, I have made you a watchmen, tell my people there sin, for if you don’t, there blood will be on YOUR hands”……Now telling them there sin is not just speaking in the form of opinion, it is FULLY and COMPLETELY expounding to them what they need to know. That way it leaves NO ROOM for them to NOT be accountable. God holds no one accountable to opinion, but only to a SOLID and undeniable, air tight message. That way the blood is on THERE hands, not yours now.

Again, as already said, my task is to prove to other lost spirits that they can be forgiven by occupying my body and then speaking the Lords prayer using my voice box.

So, is this your theory, that they can be saved while using your voice box in order to say the Lord’s prayer and you want to prove the theory? Or do you know this? And if you know this, how do you know it? Or what is the reason behind the theory, why do they need a voice box in order to be saved, why can’t they just communicate telepathically to God and then God forgive them?

Please remember this or i will classify this thread as dead.

And please remember that I asked more questions on top of your new answers or I will classify this thread as dead before you do.

Soon you will find out that astral travel is a temptation when your spirit crashes into the Lake of Fire and burns. You have no intention of listening to anything i say. So find out that i am right, the hard way; on Judgement Day.

Using a scare tactic on me without answering my question is nothing shy of manipulation. Answer my question: why is being careful a temptation?

Because the Spirit of the Lord will put a curious thought into their head to search the internet for people who have astral traveled and what those people say about demons possessing the empty host body.

i dare you to do any web search now, for astral travel and what dangers are associated with it. Low and behold, many new-age sites actually have the balls to admit the truth that there is a risk. They admit it, why can't you ?

I already told you I have a long history of researching this. There are some sites that say there are dangers, MOST of them are Christian sites or religious ones, but the new age sites, MOST of them do NOT say there is a danger. However, I have not read EVERY SINGLE SIGHT there is to read either, nor am I going to. What I am going to do is deal with the issues and ask that you do the same.

Yes, there is a danger, but there is a danger with anything you do in life.

As alreadddddddyyyy mentioned, everyone is a sinner at birth so unless they repent they will descend to hell on Judgement Day. If they astral travel and don't repent they go to hell. If they don't repent before they die, they go to hell.

Even if astral travel is neutral, if you don't repent in the name of Jesus Christ you will go to hell.

Ok, so if you repent in the name of Jesus, and then astral travel, and no demon latches hold of your body, then is astral travel neutral?

If you do astral travel then repent in the name of Jesus Christ followed by continuing to astral travel afterwards and then find out on Judgement Day that Jesus is angry at you for sinning by astral traveling more, don't expect any second chances to be forgiven at that moment in time. You will get none.

Ok, again, your not answering my question, and if astral travel is a sin, God, the most intelligent being in the entire universe, would surely have an intelligent answer to why ANYTHING is a sin, that includes astral travel.

So, answer my question, and don’t jump around it. This is the only thing about debating that gets on my nerves, is people just love to dance around the issues.

IF one repents in the name of Christ, and then continues to astral travel, and then no demon happens to latch hold of the body, is astral travel then neutral, and if it’s not, what then is inherently sinful about it in itself that would lead one to hell?

Answer this head on, directly.

Stop using scare tactics and manipulation and just answer my questions.

 

[Rapha]

Is anything outside YHWHS power or control? IS his arm too short to reach hell and save? He don’t have the power, or ability even though he created hell and has power over demons? Explain how this is so? Why does he not have jurisdiction over hell?
Choice is outside His control. Everyone who ends up in the downgraded sheol chose to be there. And before you say people don't know their fates or even if God exists, think again. How do you explain people seeing their futures in ink bowls at the age of 15 when their mother (witch) says 'hey son, come over here and look into this ink bowl'?

Sinners choose their fates before they are born. YHWH gives them a path. If they stick to His path, they will be written back into the Book of Life. If they sin again, they will fall off a spiritual cliff, again.
Look at how many people know that they have had past (sinful) lives. The list is endless. Countless stories on the internet.

Hell is in the devils control. Why should He bother to save any sinner in hell and remove the sinner from where they wanted to go ?

Remember Jesus said, 'either choose me or the mammon'. They who choose the mammon go to hell; its what they want.

A true Christian would already know this basic information. Hell is for sinners who chose not to repent. Demons have jurisdiction over lost souls in hell. A bit like the gangsters having jurisdiction over downtown city criminals whilst the up-town jurisdiction has law and order over the law-abiding tax-payers.

Remember, common sense is not common. Not everyone “KNOWS” THEY are going to hell. If they KNEW, then they would not go. If you knew you were going to fall into a pit when walking on a trail, then you would walk the other way. Why? Because you KNOW.

Every spirit knows before the day they occupy a growing baby inside a mother where they will end up for eternity if they don't repent whilst they are in mortal form.
Many do know, end result, they turn Muslim and murder Christians like in Syria, Iraq and Nigeria. Some in America kill Christian priests and say they are doing it for satan. They knew, and guareenteed their souls to hell now.

You think or you know the demons are still there?

i know.

Why do they need time? Why does God just not forgiven them?

They are holding onto some form of sin. Don't ask me what.

So there is no full blown humans around at all you say?

Nope. Adam and Eve was contructed from clay, brown eyes, brown skin and brown hair.

Everyone? You said it was like the days of Noah, but Noah was not contaminated.

Nitpicking troll tacktics. !!! who surprisingly forgets to give full glory to YHWH by not putting a capital H for He or His etc.

Noah was pure human. There are no more Noah's around today. So YHWH sent in His begotten Son to allow people's contaminated junk (YHWH) DNA to be cleansed through faith in Jesus Christ.

Spirits cannot do this in hell because they don't have any of YHWH's DNA (junk) on them anymore. Hence they are unsavable in hell.

This is what the GMO crops and Mark of the Beast will do to humans. They are both designed to obiliterate YHWH's DNA that is in every sinner.

Why do spirits need a voice box to pray in order to be forgiven? Why can’t they just telepathically communicate with God and then God respond with forgiveness?

See above concerning spirits in hell containing no DNA of YHWH left to be cleansed.

YHWH is in us and around our spirits. Junk DNA is YHWH in us and around our hearts. When a body perishes, the DNA stays here on this world. None of it gets to hell.

Using a scare tactic on me without answering my question is nothing shy of manipulation. Answer my question: why is being careful a temptation?

The truth hurts those who cannot handle the facts.

Cross a road (running) in-front of an oncoming 18-wheeler = suicide.
Cross a road (acting like the video game 'frogger') carefully dodging in-front of an oncoming 18-wheeler = eventual suicide.

I already told you I have a long history of researching this. There are some sites that say there are dangers, MOST of them are Christian sites or religious ones, but the new age sites, MOST of them do NOT say there is a danger. However, I have not read EVERY SINGLE SIGHT there is to read either, nor am I going to. What I am going to do is deal with the issues and ask that you do the same.

Astral Projection - Spirit Web

Soul joining is also possible. Because you can change shape astrally, you can become fog-like.

Here are some words from Shymhz hearing or sensing harmonic resonance internally is possible. this exercise proceeds shape shifting. i warn against attempting this.

2 seconds before falling into a full-blown epileptic seizure, i saw one of these black fog-like apparitions. The invisible pure evil that radiated was at least 10ft in radius. This is what happens when a seizure occurs; spirits fight to gain control of the motor part of the brain.

Ok, so if you repent in the name of Jesus, and then astral travel, and no demon latches hold of your body, then is astral travel neutral?

Don't know and i have no intention of finding out. i trust an immortal seraph who has been around a lot longer than you.

Ok, again, your not answering my question, and if astral travel is a sin, God, the most intelligent being in the entire universe, would surely have an intelligent answer to why ANYTHING is a sin, that includes astral travel.

Ask Him. Keep begging Him for an answer until He gives it to you. But you won't pray will you. You will say you have done that and got no where. So pray now and prove me wrong. Ask Him to give you a dream as to why astral travel is bad.
i havn't asked YHWH that question so i cannot answer it. i have no interest in astral travel so i am never going to ask. You can though.

IF one repents in the name of Christ, and then continues to astral travel, and then no demon happens to latch hold of the body, is astral travel then neutral, and if it’s not, what then is inherently sinful about it in itself that would lead one to hell?

See above answer. Ask Him yourself. i havn't asked - direct enough ?

 

[Jollybear]

Sinners choose their fates before they are born. YHWH gives them a path. If they stick to His path, they will be written back into the Book of Life. If they sin again, they will fall off a spiritual cliff, again.

Look at how many people know that they have had past (sinful) lives. The list is endless. Countless stories on the internet.
Hell is in the devils control. Why should He bother to save any sinner in hell and remove the sinner from where they wanted to go ?
Remember Jesus said, 'either choose me or the mammon'. They who choose the mammon go to hell; its what they want.
A true Christian would already know this basic information. Hell is for sinners who chose not to repent. Demons have jurisdiction over lost souls in hell. A bit like the gangsters having jurisdiction over downtown city criminals whilst the up-town jurisdiction has law and order over the law-abiding tax-payers.

God have mercy on you for not answering my question. You do not understand that you did NOT answer my question. You’re begging the question. And it’s making me angry. God have mercy on you for this! And I have a strange feeling you’re not going to “get it” with regards to directly answering my question. But, I hope I’m wrong.

Look, do you want to help me? Then please, please, answer my questions and stop beating around the bush.

Now, I am going to help you understand the nature of my question.

Let’s make a scenario. There is a man name Joe let’s call him. Joe is born a sinner, grows and walks in sin, does not repent. Then he repents at age 25 let’s say and he tastes and sees that God’s presence is good. Then he turns away from God at age 30. Then he stays away from God till the day he dies. He goes to hell. In hell, he realizes he obviously made a big mistake. He says to God “God, I know I sinned against you, I wanted my sinful path, and now I got this hell, which indirectly is what I wanted, although I did not want the hell, I wanted the sin, but got the hell with it. So I realize I deserve what I got. But, I am sorry I hurt you and others and myself. Forgive me please, and save me from this place. From now on, I choose to praise you and serve you even if you don’t save me, but please do save me. I want to go to heaven to be where you are, I do now realize and should have long ago and consistently realized that you are a just God and a good God”

Now, in this scenario, why would God not save him regardless of his bodily DNA?

Every spirit knows before the day they occupy a growing baby inside a mother where they will end up for eternity if they don't repent whilst they are in mortal form.

If they know that, they sure forgot it, and if you don’t remember it, it’s as if you never knew it. Everything before your born, is forgotten out of your memory. So, why would Jesus hold accountable those who don’t know something?

Many do know, end result, they turn Muslim and murder Christians like in Syria, Iraq and Nigeria. Some in America kill Christian priests and say they are doing it for satan. They knew, and guareenteed their souls to hell now.

Oh boy, just ranting, just answer my questions head on. Relax, pay attention, and look at what I am saying carefully and answer it.

i know.

Ok, so you know the demons are in you. So is the family members in your history in you?

They are holding onto some form of sin. Don't ask me what.

Well, if they are holding onto the sin, then they sure don’t want to repent hard enough. So why let them inhabit your body? They don’t truly seem to want to be saved; they just want to torment you. It appears they have deceived you into believing that they need your body to be saved, and they spoke this lie to you because they see you have compassion, and they used that against you and you bought their lie, and now look? They posses your body. Why not kick them out your house. Say to them “get the hell out of my house, you just want to mess me up, and use me”. You gotta get angry at the devil.

Nope. Adam and Eve was contructed from clay, brown eyes, brown skin and brown hair.

Are you talking about black people? Or white people with tan skin?

Nitpicking troll tacktics. !!! who surprisingly forgets to give full glory to YHWH by not putting a capital H for He or His etc.

Noah was pure human. There are no more Noah's around today. So YHWH sent in His begotten Son to allow people's contaminated junk (YHWH) DNA to be cleansed through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ok, and when a soul is lost and there body dies and there soul leaves the body, why can’t the soul be saved anymore, why does it need the DNA in their body to be saved? You seam to be consistent with this, because you say the demons need a body too, or they need DNA too. WHY do they all need DNA to be saved? Why can’t God save a soul without a body or without DNA? Answer that question. You’re not answering it.

Spirits cannot do this in hell because they don't have any of YHWH's DNA (junk) on them anymore. Hence they are unsavable in hell.

Ohhhh boy…….Why can’t God save a soul in hell? Because they don’t have DNA or a body. Why do they need DNA or a body to be saved? Because the DNA has YHWH’s junk DNA in it, and so as long as they have that, they are savable. WHY do they need YHWH’s junk DNA to be saved? Answer this?

This is what the GMO crops and Mark of the Beast will do to humans. They are both designed to obiliterate YHWH's DNA that is in every sinner.

And why does the DNA matter in order to be saved?

See above concerning spirits in hell containing no DNA of YHWH left to be cleansed.

See what above? You did not really answer my questions direct. You dance around it.

YHWH is in us and around our spirits. Junk DNA is YHWH in us and around our hearts. When a body perishes, the DNA stays here on this world. None of it gets to hell.

Again, why does one need DNA to get there soul saved? Why does a spirit need a voice box to pray in order to be forgiven? Why can’t a spirit commune telepathically to God and God respond with forgiveness that way?

 

[Jollybear]

The truth hurts those who cannot handle the facts.

Cross a road (running) in-front of an oncoming 18-wheeler = suicide.
Cross a road (acting like the video game 'frogger') carefully dodging in-front of an oncoming 18-wheeler = eventual suicide.

We’re just going in circles, something I HATE with a passion when this happens.

If I cross the crosswalk and there are no cars going by, there are cars way off in the distance. There is no SUICIDE, I can cross safely, because THAT is crossing CAREFULLY.

In your scenario, crossing “carefully dodging in front of an oncoming 18 wheeler” IS NOT CAREFUL!

If one crosses the road DODGING in front of an 18 wheeler, that is NOT careful man. How can you use the word careful in the same sentence as dodging in front of an oncoming 18 wheeler?

You obviously don’t know what careful means then.

Again, I’m going to ask the question, probably to no avail. But, how is it a temptation to do astral travel carefully? How is it a temptation to be careful?

Astral Projection - Spirit Web

Soul joining is also possible. Because you can change shape astrally, you can become fog-like.
Here are some words from Shymhz hearing or sensing harmonic resonance internally is possible. this exercise proceeds shape shifting. i warn against attempting this.
2 seconds before falling into a full-blown epileptic seizure, i saw one of these black fog-like apparitions. The invisible pure evil that radiated was at least 10ft in radius. This is what happens when a seizure occurs; spirits fight to gain control of the motor part of the brain.

You’re off course. We were talking about non Christian websites that promote astral travel who admit or don’t admit dangers to it. I said, there was not many in my experience, but I have not read every one of them.

I have read two well respected books by two well respected researchers on astral travel, and both of them say there are no dangers. And I have read many websites too. Stay focused.

Don't know and i have no intention of finding out. i trust an immortal seraph who has been around a lot longer than you.

Ok, NOW were getting somewhere. Finally, this is where the real issue is. And this is why I am putting my letters in bold, to bring FULL attention to this part. You said, you don’t know, so if you don’t know if astral travel is an inherent sin, after one repents and no demon attaches, then why do you think it still MAY be a sin if you don’t KNOW this?

Also, you said you trust an immortal seraph about it. Ok, maybe this immortal seraph can withstand the wisdom God gave me and planted in my brain, and God’s wisdom has been around a lot longer than this seraph. I am going to ask the same question to this seraph through you, if one repents and does astral travel and a demon does not latch hold of the body, is it STILL a inherent sin to astral travel then? If yes, why? What’s his answer?

Ask Him. Keep begging Him for an answer until He gives it to you.

Already did it many times.

But you won't pray will you.

As I already said, I KNEW I was going to have to bang my head on the table. Wow, absolutely amazing!

I have prayed about this subject to God many times and still do.

You will say you have done that and got no where. So pray now and prove me wrong.

Ok, I just did and I got no directly audible answer, just a sense or a feeling that was the same as all the other times, and that is, that it’s not a sin, it does not matter one way or the other if one does it.

Ask Him to give you a dream as to why astral travel is bad.

I will do that tonight.

i havn't asked YHWH that question so i cannot answer it. i have no interest in astral travel so i am never going to ask. You can though.

See above answer. Ask Him yourself. i havn't asked - direct enough ?

Ok, well I did ask him, and the answer is, NO, it’s not an inherent sin in and of itself.

But, gauss what? You don’t believe that answer. You see, this is not very helpful.

What’s helpful, is if you answer all my points and questions.

 

[Jollybear]

Gauss what, i asked him to give me a dream if astral travel is evil or not, and lo and behold, NO DREAM. I told you i would do it and get back to you.

 

[Rapha]

Gauss what, i asked him to give me a dream if astral travel is evil or not, and lo and behold, NO DREAM. I told you i would do it and get back to you.

It seems you are not ready to learn.

We’re just going in circles, something I HATE with a passion when this happens.

Actually ever decreasing circles as the 1st astral projection was where your spirit crossed the Event Horizon on the perimeter of a black hole leading to hell.
LOL. Atheists go in circles as well as they constantly deny the truth that they are making this world end in 3 world wars that was predicted by Albert Pike after he spoke to a demon in 1871 long before WW1 began.

If I cross the crosswalk and there are no cars going by, there are cars way off in the distance. There is no SUICIDE, I can cross safely, because THAT is crossing CAREFULLY.

Try cloaked (invisible) cars. Demons are invisible to the naked eye. They are with you now just itching for you to astral travel and you don't even know it.

In your scenario, crossing “carefully dodging in front of an oncoming 18 wheeler” IS NOT CAREFUL!

Neither is astral traveling in a room with a invisible demons right next to you.

You obviously don’t know what careful means then.

There is nothing 'careful' with astral travel. Take as long as you like setting up the event. No matter how careful you are, the demon will get you.

Again, I’m going to ask the question, probably to no avail. But, how is it a temptation to do astral travel carefully? How is it a temptation to be careful?

Waiting for feedback from a spiritual website.

I have read two well respected books by two well respected researchers on astral travel, and both of them say there are no dangers. And I have read many websites too. Stay focused.

Watch it; the demons are loving this argument. They know you are a gonna now and are sure focused on you.

Ok, NOW were getting somewhere. Finally, this is where the real issue is. And this is why I am putting my letters in bold, to bring FULL attention to this part. You said, you don’t know, so if you don’t know if astral travel is an inherent sin, after one repents and no demon attaches, then why do you think it still MAY be a sin if you don’t KNOW this?

Waiting for feedback from a spiritual website.

Ok, I just did and I got no directly audible answer, just a sense or a feeling that was the same as all the other times, and that is, that it’s not a sin, it does not matter one way or the other if one does it.

Obviously the prayer didn't come from your heart. You asked with no intention to listen to what He said. He knows this and that is why He gave no direct answer.

Ok, well I did ask him, and the answer is, NO, it’s not an inherent sin in and of itself.

On Judgement Day, this 'NO' statement LIE will be held against you and i will be there saying 'see Lord, i told you he was never going to listen to your advice via mortals'.

And already the demons in me are chuckling away. They can't wait for the weekend to dream their way in Grand Central Station and cause ....

What’s helpful, is if you answer all my points and questions.

Well in that case it looks like frogger has just hopped straight into a brick wall as the thread dies. ROFL.

Oh Thanks, this is making my day.

It could be another week until i get a reply back from the email to my contact.

 

[Jollybear]

It seems you are not ready to learn.

I’ve only been studying and praying about the subject for years now, and I’m not ready to learn you say?

Some people man, I just don’t understand them. It never ceases to amaze me.

Actually ever decreasing circles as the 1st astral projection was where your spirit crossed the Event Horizon on the perimeter of a black hole leading to hell.

LOL. Atheists go in circles as well as they constantly deny the truth that they are making this world end in 3 world wars that was predicted by Albert Pike after he spoke to a demon in 1871 long before WW1 began.

Ok……Another rabit trail.

Try cloaked (invisible) cars. Demons are invisible to the naked eye. They are with you now just itching for you to astral travel and you don't even know it.

There not invisible when you’re in spirit form or out of your body.

Neither is astral traveling in a room with a invisible demons right next to you.

This is senseless……If I’m in my house without God, the demon can come in even if my door is shut and I’m in the house. If I leave the house and have God, the demon cannot come in.

There is nothing 'careful' with astral travel. Take as long as you like setting up the event. No matter how careful you are, the demon will get you.

Oh wait, so now your changing your statement? Before you said if you leave the house and the door is open, a criminal may come in, he may not. But now you’re saying, no matter what, the demon WILL get you.

Why did you change your statement? You contradicted yourself, why?

Waiting for feedback from a spiritual website.

I’m waiting.

Watch it; the demons are loving this argument. They know you are a gonna now and are sure focused on you.

Those researchers have been astral traveling for years, many times, and they claim they have no demon enter them.

Deal with it. Experience trumps your theories.

Waiting for feedback from a spiritual website.

Ok, I am waiting, and I definitely want your angel to answer this. Here it is again as a reminder

Ok, NOW were getting somewhere. Finally, this is where the real issue is. And this is why I am putting my letters in bold, to bring FULL attention to this part. You said, you don’t know, so if you don’t know if astral travel is an inherent sin, after one repents and no demon attaches, then why do you think it still MAY be a sin if you don’t KNOW this?

Also, you said you trust an immortal seraph about it. Ok, maybe this immortal seraph can withstand the wisdom God gave me and planted in my brain, and God’s wisdom has been around a lot longer than this seraph. I am going to ask the same question to this seraph through you, if one repents and does astral travel and a demon does not latch hold of the body, is it STILL a inherent sin to astral travel then? If yes, why? What’s his answer?

Obviously the prayer didn't come from your heart. You asked with no intention to listen to what He said. He knows this and that is why He gave no direct answer.

Oh of course! How silly of me to not realize that. Just like your stupid statement above which said I am not ready to learn. I’ve been studying and praying about it for years, and I am not sincere in my seeking? Give me a break.

I could just as easily say you’re not sincere in what answer you got from God concerning the subject. You think God is saying to you astral travel is sinful and of the devil, but I could say just the same that your not sincere and that is why you got the wrong answer.

But, hey, just so I stay objective. How does one ask from the heart? Educate me. And after you tell me, I’ll let you know if I prayed from the heart.

On Judgement Day, this 'NO' statement LIE will be held against you and i will be there saying 'see Lord, i told you he was never going to listen to your advice via mortals'.

Oh no, you won’t be there, I’m pretty sure of that.

Also, my NO statement is not a lie, this is what I truly SENSE is true, that astral travel is not a sin. I could easily just the same, say your statement that it is sinful and of the devil, that this is a lie and will be held against you.

But hey, this kind of nonsense gets the discussion nowhere FAST.

And already the demons in me are chuckling away. They can't wait for the weekend to dream their way in Grand Central Station and cause ....

Again, if the demons in you are holding onto sin and chuckling at what they think is my demise, why would you let them stay in your body? They show no signs of wanting to repent and be saved. And that is why you let them stay in you is for that purpose, but they are not wanting that it appears. So why let them stay?

Also you did not answer my other question. Is your past families souls in your body too?

Well in that case it looks like frogger has just hopped straight into a brick wall as the thread dies. ROFL.

Oh Thanks, this is making my day.
It could be another week until i get a reply back from the email to my contact.

Yep, and make sure he fully answers my questions. Nothing vague.

 

[Rapha]

.

Oh wait, so now your changing your statement? Before you said if you leave the house and the door is open, a criminal may come in, he may not. But now you're saying, no matter what, the demon WILL get you.

Why did you change your statement? You contradicted yourself, why?

You haven't read anything have you ?

Every mortal is born a sinner. So the house that they are in instantly has an open door to demons. As the baby/child doesn't know anything yet an angel (guardian angel) will protect them from demons. i am sure you will come back stating 'how is this possible, if guardian angels or family spirits are fallen ?'. The family spirits obviously want forgiveness whilst they exist as nephil spirits in this world.

As soon as the aging child knows right from wrong and sins, the angel leaves and goes somewhere else. The demons move in.

If the aging sinner repents and prayers to Yahushua for forgiveness, another or the same angel will return and banish all demons from the repenters house. The spiritual doors will be closed. The spirit of the Lord will be with the person wherever they go, in and out of the house.

This is all basic logic and common sense. But like you said, many people are not born with common sense.

Those researchers have been astral traveling for years, many times, and they claim they have no demon enter them.

Deal with it. Experience trumps your theories.

Mortals can easily lie. Liars win for now. However on Judgment Day they will all crash and burn into the Lake of Fire and scream. And all their books of lies will not save their sorry backsides. Lol.

But, hey, just so I stay objective. How does one ask from the heart? Educate me. And after you tell me, I’ll let you know if I prayed from the heart.

There are distinct differences between 2 types of prayer.

Type 1) You want to astral travel but already believe it safe. You read words in books that 'tickle your eyes' because its what you want to read. So your mind is already closed off to the possibility that it is bad and sinful. YHWH knows this and is testing you. If you pray why should He listen when He already knows you will not listen to His direct advice ?
A perfect example of being closed off: you call yourself a Christian yet ignore all of the Christian websites that say astral travel is dangerous. Contradiction there.

Type 2) Lets say you do the astral travel and a demon pops in and screws up your entire family life. You don't know what to do. Things fall apart so rapidly that you are in dispare. Your heart is open to let the Spirit of the Lord into your body as you beg Him for help, protection and guidance. This is different to just opening your mind to advice. One is an idea for you to think about. The other is where you will work for YHWH in His name and guide others away from astral travel.

Also, my NO statement is not a lie, this is what I truly SENSE is true, that astral travel is not a sin. I could easily just the same, say your statement that it is sinful and of the devil, that this is a lie and will be held against you.

If astral travel was good for mankind and YHWH wanted it to be used by mortals throughout the world then ...
1) He would have destroyed the elite that puts chemicals in our drinking water that crushes the penal gland in the brain.
2) He would have inserted passages into the Bible that state that it is good to astral travel and help mankind.

In fact he would have used those exact words 'astral travel' in the Bible. He didn't, because it is evil.

Again, if the demons in you are holding onto sin and chuckling at what they think is my demise, why would you let them stay in your body? They show no signs of wanting to repent and be saved. And that is why you let them stay in you is for that purpose, but they are not wanting that it appears. So why let them stay?

The truth hurts. i let them stay because they know that the only way to knock common sense into a denialist is to stamp Suicide on their foreheads and laugh. They are sarcastic and i have always been sarcastic. 'Familiar' demons attraction. They speak the truth and know that doing that will please YHWH. That is how they will be saved. Their cruel sarcasm proves Jesus was correct when he said that 'peoples hearts will wax over cold' as people hate the advice given to them by Jesus and His followers. You are proving that true right now. Again this is a major point in the demons favor when they stand in-front of the Lord on Judgment Day.

Also you did not answer my other question. Is your past families souls in your body too?

i hope my mothers is because it will mean that she has been saved from Tartarus.
As for others i don't know. One possibility could be Cormoran, the giant (rapha) that was slain by Cornelius as he trekked across a large island that later became Britain, named after his work mate, Brutus of Troy.

 

[Jollybear]

You haven't read anything have you ?

Yes, I have read everything you said.

Every mortal is born a sinner. So the house that they are in instantly has an open door to demons. As the baby/child doesn't know anything yet an angel (guardian angel) will protect them from demons. i am sure you will come back stating 'how is this possible, if guardian angels or family spirits are fallen ?'. The family spirits obviously want forgiveness whilst they exist as nephil spirits in this world.

As soon as the aging child knows right from wrong and sins, the angel leaves and goes somewhere else. The demons move in.
If the aging sinner repents and prayers to Yahushua for forgiveness, another or the same angel will return and banish all demons from the repenters house. The spiritual doors will be closed. The spirit of the Lord will be with the person wherever they go, in and out of the house.
This is all basic logic and common sense. But like you said, many people are not born with common sense.

Ok, so you basically just said that when a person grows older and they sin, the guardian angel leaves and a demon moves in. I assume this “sin” is anything, any kind of sin, yes? So, let’s say, they live a normal sinful lifestyle but one of those so called sins is NOT astral travel. The demons still move in, even though they are not astral traveling, but they still move in because they are committing other sins.


So, you just ADMITTED that if one does not do astral travel (but still sins in other ways), the door is still open.


So, you say, astral travel makes the door open because it’s a “sin” and not astral traveling but committing other sins, makes the door open, because it’s other sins.


Here is what question I asked you in another former post “Ok, so if you repent in the name of Jesus, and then astral travel, and no demon latches hold of your body, then is astral travel neutral? And you said “Don't know and i have no intention of finding out. i trust an immortal seraph who has been around a lot longer than you.” And then I asked you “Ok, NOW were getting somewhere. Finally, this is where the real issue is. And this is why I am putting my letters in bold, to bring FULL attention to this part. You said, you don’t know, so if you don’t know if astral travel is an inherent sin, after one repents and no demon attaches, then why do you think it still MAY be a sin if you don’t KNOW this?


Also, you said you trust an immortal seraph about it. Ok, maybe this immortal seraph can withstand the wisdom God gave me and planted in my brain, and God’s wisdom has been around a lot longer than this seraph. I am going to ask the same question to this seraph through you, if one repents and does astral travel and a demon does not latch hold of the body, is it STILL an inherent sin to astral travel then? If yes, why? What’s his answer?”


Because you see, if no demon latches hold of the body when one astral travels and if astral travel is not an inherent sin in and of itself, then doing it, would not CAUSE the doors of your house to be open. And an angel would still be there to protect.


Also, you DID say in a few post back, that if the door is open, a criminal MAY come in, they MAY not. Here are your exact words


“It's rather like opening your front door wide in a bad neighborhood and then going to bed...maybe nothing happens, but then again, something really could. YHWH never approves of that which can ultimately open your life to evil spirits.'

A repented fallen seraph went further saying 'imagine that you live in a bad neighbourhood. Its nighttime and you leave the front door open and lights on. Later you go to bed and sleep. Either something nasty will drift straight in or nothing will happen'.” And it was on page 6 and 7 posts down you said this.

And then just in the current post, you said this in contradiction to this statement “As soon as the aging child knows right from wrong and sins, the angel leaves and goes somewhere else. The demons move in.”

So, which is it, the demons move in, or the demons MAYBE will move in?


Answer both those questions. How do you know astral travel is a sin or how is it a sin in itself, if no demon latches hold? And which is it, a demon will always come in or may come in with regards to ANY sin?

Also, you said, astral travel makes the door open (which means it's a sin), and then you say you don't know if it's a sin (which means, the door could be closed even if they astral travel). So, which is it, is it a sin or is it not? Is the door open or is it not?

Stop your contradictions.

 

[Jollybear]

Mortals can easily lie. Liars win for now. However on Judgment Day they will all crash and burn into the Lake of Fire and scream. And all their books of lies will not save their sorry backsides. Lol.

Wait a minute, if a demon came in, why would they lie about that and say no demon came? If anything, they would surely repent of it in fear and then expose it and try to deter as many people away from astral travel as possible.


Why would they lie? What’s the motive?


And, how do you “KNOW” they’re lying?

There are distinct differences between 2 types of prayer.

Type 1) You want to astral travel but already believe it safe. You read words in books that 'tickle your eyes' because its what you want to read.

No, I have read both view points. I have read things on astral travel being approved and I have read things on astral travel being disapproved. So, your wrong about me there. And actually, I am reading your words and you disapprove, so I have proof in that regard.

So your mind is already closed off to the possibility that it is bad and sinful.

The fact that I am discussing and debating this shows I am open to the possibility. The fact I read both sides of view on the subject, shows I am open. The fact that I have prayed about it over the years, shows that I am open.


Anyone who refuses to debate a subject proves they are closed to the other view. Anyone that will not ask or pray about it, is closed and has made up their mind completely already and will not change it. If someone refuses to read the opposite view they hold, that proves they are not open.


So, this means, I am open.

YHWH knows this and is testing you. If you pray why should He listen when He already knows you will not listen to His direct advice ?

Do you hear yourself talking? Why would I ask him AND LISTEN if I did not want his advice? Like, why would I even bother praying at all about it, if his advice is not what I wanted? If that’s not what I wanted, why would I be wasting effort to ask?

A perfect example of being closed off: you call yourself a Christian yet ignore all of the Christian websites that say astral travel is dangerous. Contradiction there.

Not all Christian websites say it’s dangerous. But of course you will probably say those websites are not Christian.


So, I did not contradict myself at all. You call it a contradiction based off your dumb assumption of me; which your assumption is false. You assume that everything you believe is Christian, I also think the same, and that is dumb. Don’t assume anything about another. You don’t know them.

Type 2) Lets say you do the astral travel and a demon pops in and screws up your entire family life. You don't know what to do. Things fall apart so rapidly that you are in dispare. Your heart is open to let the Spirit of the Lord into your body as you beg Him for help, protection and guidance. This is different to just opening your mind to advice. One is an idea for you to think about. The other is where you will work for YHWH in His name and guide others away from astral travel.

Another bang my head on the table moment. We’re not talking about crying out to God for help AFTER astral travel, were talking about praying to him to reveal if it’s good or bad BEFORE we astral travel.

If astral travel was good for mankind and YHWH wanted it to be used by mortals throughout the world then ...

1) He would have destroyed the elite that puts chemicals in our drinking water that crushes the penal gland in the brain.

There are people who drink fluoride free water and filtered of all other stuff and they don’t go about astral traveling once, let alone all the time.


I know people who have their own well water and they don’t astral travel.


Ancient people did not put chemicals in water and they did not all do astral travel.

2) He would have inserted passages into the Bible that state that it is good to astral travel and help mankind.

If it was bad for mankind, he would have inserted passages into the bible that state that it is bad to astral travel.


So, this means, it don’t matter one way or the other. Actually, I think it’s good, because of the many benefits of it.

In fact he would have used those exact words 'astral travel' in the Bible. He didn't, because it is evil.

This statement is not too bright. If he did not use the words astral travel, then it’s not evil.


You ASSUME the reason he did not use those words in the bible is because it’s evil? That is so stupid. Adultery is evil, but he used that word in the bible.


What you said here just sounds ridiculous.

 

[Jollybear]

The truth hurts. i let them stay because they know that the only way to knock common sense into a denialist is to stamp Suicide on their foreheads and laugh. They are sarcastic and i have always been sarcastic. 'Familiar' demons attraction. They speak the truth and know that doing that will please YHWH. That is how they will be saved. Their cruel sarcasm proves Jesus was correct when he said that 'peoples hearts will wax over cold' as people hate the advice given to them by Jesus and His followers. You are proving that true right now. Again this is a major point in the demons favor when they stand in-front of the Lord on Judgment Day.

Can’t you stamp suicide on the forehead of a denialist and laugh by yourself, why do you need a demon in you to do that for you? Can’t you knock common sense into a denialist without the help of demon in you? Plus, the demon is not the one writing all this stuff to me now is it? It’s you writing it. So, why do you need the demon for?


So, you think the demons cruel sarcasm will save them? How will it, when scripture says that “God does not delight in the death of the wicked” and “God is not willing that any should parish”


If the demon is “laughing” and being “cruel” this shows they “delight in the death of the wicked” and it shows they ARE willing that all should parish.


Does this not trouble you? You still want those demons in you? You still trust them? You think they tell you the truth?

i hope my mothers is because it will mean that she has been saved from Tartarus.

Well, first off, how would she get OUT of tartarus and into your body in the first place?


And second, you said you KNEW the demons were in you, so why don’t you “KNOW” if your mother is in you?

As for others i don't know.

Wait, you don’t even know if your mother is, because you said “I hope my mother is”, so how can you say “as for the others I don’t know, you mean ALL of them, including your mother you don’t know.

One possibility could be Cormoran, the giant (rapha) that was slain by Cornelius as he trekked across a large island that later became Britain, named after his work mate, Brutus of Troy.

Ok.

Oh, by the way, I have been doing my strategy so far. I have fasted all day today, and I will be staying awake all night tonight, and in the morning I will continue the fast and then at noon I will nap an hour and do the meditation technique, this will be done tomorrow (Saturday, June 21st) . If it works, great, so, make sure your demons and there army shows up, so I can slay every one of them and cast them to the abyss where they belong. Also, if I am unsuccessful in projecting, well, that will be crappy.

But, here’s to trying.

Oh and by the way, if it really was that sinful, why would it be so difficult to pull off? Think about that one too. Usually sin is very easy to commit. Jesus said wide is the road to destruction and easy it’s way. Usually with sin, you never have to learn it and discipline yourself to commit it. But, astral travel, you have to learn it and discipline yourself.

 

[Rapha]

.

Ok, so you basically just said that when a person grows older and they sin, the guardian angel leaves and a demon moves in. I assume this “sin” is anything, any kind of sin, yes? So, let’s say, they live a normal sinful lifestyle but one of those so called sins is NOT astral travel. The demons still move in, even though they are not astral traveling, but they still move in because they are committing other sins.

Yes

So, you just ADMITTED that if one does not do astral travel (but still sins in other ways), the door is still open.

Its basic knowledge so all i admitted is that i have common sense.

So, you say, astral travel makes the door open because it’s a “sin” and not astral traveling but committing other sins, makes the door open, because it’s other sins.

Yes. Its all in the Bible.

Because you see, if no demon latches hold of the body when one astral travels and if astral travel is not an inherent sin in and of itself, then doing it, would not CAUSE the doors of your house to be open. And an angel would still be there to protect.

Only if astral travel is neutral and the sinner has repented.

So, which is it, the demons move in, or the demons MAYBE will move in?

No you are a nitpicking troll again.

If a criminal just burgled a vacant house, stole everything, filled the get-a-way car with the stash and whilst driving down 'Steal-From-Me Street', notices that your door is open, why should they raid your house as well ? They have no room in the car to stash your stuff as well. They will just drive by the next day and burgle your house with an empty car. Demons have plenty of time to wait.

Answer both those questions. How do you know astral travel is a sin or how is it a sin in itself, if no demon latches hold? And which is it, a demon will always come in or may come in with regards to ANY sin?

Still waiting for astral travel answer.

Also, you said, astral travel makes the door open (which means it's a sin), and then you say you don't know if it's a sin (which means, the door could be closed even if they astral travel). So, which is it, is it a sin or is it not? Is the door open or is it not?

Now, doooo yoouuu remember i have accepted it is neutral (for now) until i get more details from the seraph ???????????

Wait a minute, if a demon came in, why would they lie about that and say no demon came? If anything, they would surely repent of it in fear and then expose it and try to deter as many people away from astral travel as possible.

Some demons are under a tight leash pulled along by their c/o's. They have orders to obey. Many demons are still evil and promote evil. Other demons have repented and are afraid and unsure if they have any protection from YHWH right now.

Why would they lie? What’s the motive?

Get as many mortals on a one way trip to hell.

And, how do you “KNOW” they’re lying?

If astral travel was good, YHWH would have added 'astral travel is good' into the Book of Enoch alongside 'sorcery is evil'. He didn't, which proves astral travel is bad and is a form of sorcery. Any mortal who says its good hasn't read the Bible.

Do you hear yourself talking? Why would I ask him AND LISTEN if I did not want his advice? Like, why would I even bother praying at all about it, if his advice is not what I wanted? If that’s not what I wanted, why would I be wasting effort to ask?

You are unsure and want advice from YHWH. But if He say 'don't do it', what will you do then ?
Oh and you need an answer, so silence equals 'don't do it' as well.

So, I did not contradict myself at all. You call it a contradiction based off your dumb assumption of me; which your assumption is false. You assume that everything you believe is Christian, I also think the same, and that is dumb. Don’t assume anything about another. You don’t know them.

Touchy. Truth hurts when a sinner cannot handle the facts. If he could, YHWH would have put him in contact with angels.

There are people who drink fluoride free water and filtered of all other stuff and they don’t go about astral traveling once, let alone all the time.

Urrrgh, because they don't know how to.

I know people who have their own well water and they don’t astral travel.

Maybe because they are spiritually dead and don't believe in any of that stuff anyway.

If it was bad for mankind, he would have inserted passages into the bible that state that it is bad to astral travel.

Already done in the book of Enoch under the general heading 'sorcery'. Also in Revelation 20:8 under 'sorcery'.

This statement is not too bright. If he did not use the words astral travel, then it’s not evil.

Touchy troll getting nasty now - well nothing new there then.
Find 4 words in the Bible for me. Words = 'Astral Travel is good'. Go on, do it. Find them now. The world is waiting.

You ASSUME the reason he did not use those words in the bible is because it’s evil? That is so stupid. Adultery is evil, but he used that word in the bible.

YHWH knows astral travel is sorcery and classed it as sorcery. VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND !!!!!

So, you think the demons cruel sarcasm will save them? How will it, when scripture says that “God does not delight in the death of the wicked” and “God is not willing that any should parish”

If the demon is “laughing” and being “cruel” this shows they “delight in the death of the wicked” and it shows they ARE willing that all should parish.

Does this not trouble you? You still want those demons in you? You still trust them? You think they tell you the truth?

Nope. i trust them more than sinners that read books that promote astral travel is good and not dangerous.
They have shown me the truth of what this world was like before the Great Flood and the 4 hells. A seraph and watcher has verified the visions as fact after the visions were posted on the internet.

Now why would an evil demon state that hell exists when the end result is even more people will turn to Jesus Christ for Redemption ?

Well, first off, how would she get OUT of tartarus and into your body in the first place?

YHWH does amazing things. Only He can remove rapha's from Tartarus. This is also stated in the Book of Revelation where hell is opened up and the demons are set free.

And second, you said you KNEW the demons were in you, so why don’t you “KNOW” if your mother is in you?

Privacy.

Wait, you don’t even know if your mother is, because you said “I hope my mother is”, so how can you say “as for the others I don’t know, you mean ALL of them, including your mother you don’t know.

Nitpicking troll again.
Cannot be bothered to answer.

Oh and by the way, if it really was that sinful, why would it be so difficult to pull off? Think about that one too. Usually sin is very easy to commit. Jesus said wide is the road to destruction and easy it’s way. Usually with sin, you never have to learn it and discipline yourself to commit it. But, astral travel, you have to learn it and discipline yourself.

Astral travel is so dangerous and evil that YHWH made it extremely hard to perform. Yet once done, the sinner is a gonner. Its a bit like climbing a cliff (major effort), reaching the top and jumping off without a parachute. Guareenteed suicide.

 

[Jollybear]

Yes. Its all in the Bible.

Wait a second, you said astral travel may be neutral, so how can you say it’s in the bible that it’s sinful OR leaves the door open?

You better be careful what you say, I will hold it against you.

Only if astral travel is neutral and the sinner has repented.

Right, if astral travel is neutral, which I believe it is, but your status on it is still pending, then doing it will not leave the door open and the angel will still protect.

No you are a nitpicking troll again.

I am not a troll, a troll by definition according to Wikipedia is “In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion”

Am I sowing discord? No, am I sowing arguments? Yes (in the form of points, not just contradicting you), am I upsetting you? Perhaps maybe, but am I doing it by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off topic messages just to get an emotional response? No, I’m not. Are you getting into an emotional response? Maybe, I don’t know, you know, but am I doing it to get at you emotionally? No.

So am I a troll? Nope, I sure am not.

Now, am I nitpicking? If you call making points and arguments and applying logic and questions and scrutinizing your view as nitpicking, then it’s nitpicking and I am proud of it.

That’s how you get at the truth, is by analyzing things and thinking critically, which I am going to do whether you like it or not.

If a criminal just burgled a vacant house, stole everything, filled the get-a-way car with the stash and whilst driving down 'Steal-From-Me Street', notices that your door is open, why should they raid your house as well ? They have no room in the car to stash your stuff as well. They will just drive by the next day and burgle your house with an empty car. Demons have plenty of time to wait.

Oh and why don’t they just send in another demon who is not busy, there are quite a few of them.

Still waiting for astral travel answer.

Yes, I can’t wait to hear the answer.

Now, doooo yoouuu remember i have accepted it is neutral (for now) until i get more details from the seraph ???????????

Right, now mind you, if you accept it as neutral for now, then in essence your saying it’s NOT a sin in itself and it does not leave your door open and it does not cause the angel to take back it’s protection.

However, I understand you could or may change your mind depending on the seraphs response, and I look forward to that response.

Some demons are under a tight leash pulled along by their c/o's. They have orders to obey. Many demons are still evil and promote evil. Other demons have repented and are afraid and unsure if they have any protection from YHWH right now.

Oh wait, you misunderstood my question. I was not talking about the demons motive for lying, I was talking about the mortal astral projectors motives for lying. Here was the question again, rephrased

“Wait a minute, if a demon came into the mortal after astral traveling, why would they lie about that and say no demon came? If anything, they would surely repent of it in fear and then expose it and try to deter as many people away from astral travel as possible. I am talking about the big researchers of it who have written extensively on the topic and astral travel quite often.

Get as many mortals on a one way trip to hell.

You misunderstood the question: Why would they (they the mortal researchers who have gained much respect concerning the subject and who wrote books on it) lie? What’s the motive?

 

[Jollybear]

If astral travel was good, YHWH would have added 'astral travel is good' into the Book of Enoch alongside 'sorcery is evil'. He didn't, which proves astral travel is bad and is a form of sorcery.

Unbelievable. Your logic is equivalent to a person who reads a book about how to grow plants and then says, because the book does not talk about how to build cars, therefore building cars is evil, since the book does not mention it, that proves building cars is evil.

Are you kidding me? Just because the bible does not mention the word astral travel, does not make it proof it’s evil, actually, the opposite is true, if it does not mention it, it proves it’s EITHER NEATRAL, neither good nor evil OR it COULD be evil or COULD be good. But, if it’s not mentioned, then it’s not proven one way or the other.

You assume astral travel is sorcery. I already made my point about what sorcery is. It is latin for one who sorts, or casts lots with the assistance of evil spirits. That does not mean astral travel.

You know what sorting means right? You know what casting lots means right?

Any mortal who says its good hasn't read the Bible.

You evidently don’t know what you’re talking about because I have read the bible all the way through 28 times and still going, and I say astral travel is good.

You are unsure and want advice from YHWH. But if He say 'don't do it', what will you do then ?

Gauss what, in all honesty, if God directly and clearly told me don’t do astral travel, I would NOT do astral travel. But he has not said that to me.

Oh and you need an answer, so silence equals 'don't do it' as well.

Eh, no, silence equals silence, it does not equal don’t do it as well.

If my wife keeps asking me a question or keeps telling me something on her mind while I am typing all this out too you and I don’t answer her, that does not equal me answering her, it does not even equal me answering her in thought either, it equals, me did not answer, because I was paying attention to typing this out. So, she will have to ask it again.

Now in God’s case, sometimes he wants us to seek him longer, sometimes he speaks to us in a whisper in our heart, or audibly in our ear, Or sometimes like you said, the person may not be sincere. And there is another, sometimes God just wants us to think for ourselves, sometimes we can easily figure out some stuff with the brain he gave us.

Like I heard of a guy whose car broke down on the road and he asked God “why is this happening to me”? and God did not answer. And I know why, because it’s something he could easily figure out on his own. Why? Because your car is old and eventually something is going to break down. Secondly, if God magically stopped your car from breaking down, then to be fair, he would do it for all, and if he did that, he would destroy economy by putting all mechanics out of business.

We need only to THINK, a lot of folk, don’t THINK.

Touchy. Truth hurts when a sinner cannot handle the facts. If he could, YHWH would have put him in contact with angels.

I swear you must be trying to test my patience? Because I cannot fathom how you can actually believe your own statement here after what I said to you?

You’re in essence calling me a liar, that is not going to work.

I did not contradict myself, you THOUGHT I contradicted myself based off your assumption of me thinking everything you think concerning Christianity. Yea, if I agreed with all your interpretations of what Christianity is, then yes, I would have contradicted myself, but since I don’t agree with everything you think, I did not contradict myself.

Again, here is what you said concerning the so called contradiction “A perfect example of being closed off: you call yourself a Christian yet ignore all of the Christian websites that say astral travel is dangerous. Contradiction there.”

Yes, I call myself a Christian, but, not all Christian websites say astral travel is dangerous. But of course you will probably say those websites are not truly Christian.

But, it just goes to show you, I did not contradict myself, because I don’t agree with what you think is Christian in every respect.

So, where is the contradiction?

It’s not me that can’t handle the “facts” as you call it, because the fact is, I did not contradict myself, and it appears you can’t handle THAT. If you could, then you would show some respect and trust and not call me a liar.

Urrrgh, because they don't know how to.

Well obviously they don’t know how to, so if you’re going to bring up that point, why did you bother even mentioning the elite putting chemicals in the water to fry our pineal gland? One can astral travel despite drinking chemical water.

 

[Jollybear]

Maybe because they are spiritually dead and don't believe in any of that stuff anyway.

Quite obviously, yes. And it has nothing to do with the chemical water.

Already done in the book of Enoch under the general heading 'sorcery'. Also in Revelation 20:8 under 'sorcery'.

Astral travel is not specified as being sorcery in Enoch or in the bible, you have not proven that, all you have done is assume astral travel is the same as sorcery. But I have documented that sorcery is latin for one who sorts or casts lots with the assistance of evil spirits.

Touchy troll getting nasty now - well nothing new there then.

Find 4 words in the Bible for me. Words = 'Astral Travel is good'. Go on, do it. Find them now. The world is waiting.

There are bible passages that talk about people who traveled to heaven or had an OBE. Of course you will come back and say God did that for them. The bible talks about training our spiritual senses, I could easily insert astral travel into that, because astral travel is a training of the spiritual senses.

But hey, there is no direct words that say “astral travel is good” and gauss what, find me one passage that says “astral travel is evil”. Go on, do it. Find them now. The world is waiting. I’ll make you eat your words.

YHWH knows astral travel is sorcery and classed it as sorcery. VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND !!!!!

He did not class astral travel as sorcery, that is your assumption.

Also, ARE you contradicting yourself again? I thought you just said over again that CURRENTLY astral travel is neutral? Now you’re saying IT IS sorcery (that is a sin, that is, the door wide open)?

Who is the one doing the contradicting here, me or YOU? It’s YOUUUUUUUU!!!! Haha! But, people that make stuff up, they better be prepared to be caught by those who have critical minds.

You just emphatically said with exclamation marks that “YHWH knows astral travel is sorcery (sin in itself)” but above you said “Now, doooo yoouuu remember i have accepted it is neutral (for now) until i get more details from the seraph ???????????”

My question is, why would you need the answer from the seraph if you emphatically stated that God knows astral travel is sorcery (thus not neutral)?

Also, looks like you need to eat your other words too, when you told me God would not give me an answer because I already think I got it, well, this principle applies to you, because you think you already got the answer, that God knows it’s sorcery, so why would the seraph answer you? You’re not asking sincerely. Yet you apply insincerity to me? You hypocrite. Your right, demons ARE in you, and it shows.

You are officially exposed contradicting yourself.

So, which is it, astral travel is sorcery, or is neutral?

Or is it maybe sorcery or neutral depending on what the seraph says to you?

Why would you say it’s neutral for now and then say God knows it’s sorcery? First you say you don’t know if it’s sin in itself or sorcery in itself, then you say God knows it’s sorcery or sin in itself. So, that means you know God knows this, so if you know God knows this, why are you acting like you don’t know it through asking the seraph? Also, how do you know God knows this if you said you don’t know, that you have to find out from the seraph?

Sorry I got to say this many different ways, but sometimes I just feel it’s needed. Sometimes I just got to break it down so there is no misunderstanding.

 

[Jollybear]

Nope. i trust them more than sinners that read books that promote astral travel is good and not dangerous.

They have shown me the truth of what this world was like before the Great Flood and the 4 hells. A seraph and watcher has verified the visions as fact after the visions were posted on the internet.
Now why would an evil demon state that hell exists when the end result is even more people will turn to Jesus Christ for Redemption ?

Just because someone hears hell exists from a demon does not mean they will turn to Jesus, many religions believe in a hell, not just Christianity.

YHWH does amazing things. Only He can remove rapha's from Tartarus. This is also stated in the Book of Revelation where hell is opened up and the demons are set free.

Wait, you contradicted yourself again. First you say God does not save those who enter hell or tartarus when I asked you if someone cried out to God in repentance, would he save them, you said, no, they are eternally damed, now you say he does save them from there, so, which is it then, he saves from hell or does not? Make up your mind.

Privacy.

I asked you this “And second, you said you KNEW the demons were in you, so why don’t you “KNOW” if your mother is in you?” and then you respond with “privacy”?

That’s weird. If it was so private, why would you be sharing this much with me so far about demons being in you and being in contact with angels and seeing visions and trying to get the demons saved and you hope your mom is in you and all? Why would you share all that and then the part about how you know the demons are in you and why you don’t know your mom is in you, that part is private? That just does not add up. Why is it private?

If it was truly private, then you should not have said you knew the demons were in you and you hope your mom is in you but you don’t know.

You should have just said, it was private from the start, like, not even tell me you had demons in you, or were hoping your mom was in you. That’s how it should have been, if it was truly private.

To keep private HOW you know the demons are in you, but you don’t know if your mom is in you, is just weird and stupid. It makes no sense. Why is it private?

You know why you said it’s private, I have a figure, it’s because you just got pressed into a corner and you don’t know what to say in response, but you do want to respond somehow so you don’t look like a fool, but by responding this way, it actually did make you look more like a fool. So, if you really did not want to address this, you would have looked a lot less like a fool if you did not say anything, but saying it’s private, makes you look completely foolish.

Nitpicking troll again.

Cannot be bothered to answer.

I said “Wait, you don’t even know if your mother is, because you said “I hope my mother is”, so how can you say “as for the others I don’t know, you mean ALL of them, including your mother you don’t know.”

How is this nitpicking when I am just asking honest scrutinizing questions in order to understand what your convoluted mess is here? If you say “I hope my mother is” and then say “as for the others I don’t know” that is another contradiction. What you mean is, ALL of them you don’t know. And if you know one of them is in you, then you should know if all of them are. How do you know any of them are in you?

When you get pressed into an intellectual corner, or when anyone does who has pride issues, this is the usual response, call me a nitpicker or “cannot be bothered to answer”.

Why don’t you just surrender your pride. Demons love pride too by the way, maybe that’s another reason they got attracted to you. Surrender it and they will leave.

Astral travel is so dangerous and evil that YHWH made it extremely hard to perform.

Oh wait, so astral travel is EVIL (sin in itself, door open, sorcery, NOT neutral? So you got that answer from the seraph already?)

Yet once done, the sinner is a gonner. Its a bit like climbing a cliff (major effort), reaching the top and jumping off without a parachute. Guareenteed suicide.

Nice analogy, but I got a parachute as I climb the cliff with major effort.
Oh, by the way, the plan was to make an attempt today at noon, but I was working longer then I thought at my part time job, so, plan changed. I was fasting for two days though and did stay awake for most of the night. And still went to do my second part time job, I felt like death.
But, if you want to send your demons over and there army tonight, I will be making an attempt tonight, and if I succeed, and they are actually there (which would be very impressive indeed) then me and them can make contact and I can send them to their abyss. If they have any fear of that place, they best flee.