Christian Trump Supporters

[ElishaElijah]

I can understand why you would think that is usually the case since you're a Trump supporter, especially if you get your news from right-wing propaganda pundits like the Investor's Business Daily, Breitbart, and Fox News. As far as the picture I posted of Trump mimicking the disabled reporter, a picture is worth a thousand words. On a related note, I honestly don't expect Trump supporters, to admit that he mimicked the reporter, because they've sent five years overlooking and stubbornly defending his controversial behavior, with lame excuses like "I voted for a president, not a pastor." I'll concede that the left news media has been misleading at times when reporting about Trump, but he brought their contempt for him down upon himself with his loud-mouth obnoxious behavior. He reaps what he sows, and I don't feel sorry for him. The right news media isn't any better than the left news media, as far as I'm concerned.

Brother, the media falsely reported on it and many other stories and you ate it up and still are posting the story. You’re so far off topic to the OP and still keep posting it. Frankly, I can’t think of 1 single Democrat to vote for, after all the reasons I stated for voting for Trump and you still don’t get it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Bold of you to assume that logic is ever in the window in those situations.

Did I not just state it was out the window?
Yes...yes, I did.
"Out" means not "in".
Except on your planet, Htrae.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Let me guess, your health insurance providers are named "don't get sick" and "don't have accidents".

Jesus is their health insurance.

 

[Kenny]

Not so out of the box, thought. It's the traditional religious answer - what the other guy ought to do because your religion told you so

Not really,.., it is logical and empirically verifiable. You could also take the pill, use condoms or even have tubes tied that can be reversed.

You are still responsible

 

[Kenny]

You know, or you should know by now, that there is a very great difference between "surviving without adult help" and "unable to survive -- even with all the help that medical science can devise." And before the third trimester, that is currently the state of things.

Yes, there is a difference but IMV, that is just a matter of waiting until medical capacity catches up. IMV, test tube babies can eventually be a reality.

Look, you also know -- or you should, because we've been communicating since before this board -- that I am not in favour of abortion. I do not like the way that abortion is all-too-often used these days, which is as an sort of "after-the-fact" contraceptive.

You know that I am hugely in favour of sensible sex education of children (which terrifies the bejeebers out of far too many religious), and the use of safe sexual practices -- which the well-educated would know, including contraception (which again, many religious hate).

Yes, there are those. I do also believe in sensible sex education at an appropriate age.

 

[metis]

loves America and looked out for our interests and citizens first, which every leader should do for their Countries.

That's not what his sister, whom he says that he's the closest to, and his niece say, namely that he has always been pro-choice and only "converted" to being pro-life in order to run on the Republican ticket in 2016. He's long been known out East as being a "con man" as he has a long history of "playing" people and that he's always been out just for himself according to them.

 

[metis]

BTW, when is Trump going to release his tax returns as he repeatedly promised prior to the 2016 election? I was VERY confident he wouldn't because of his previous record of dishonesty, whereas some fellow Republicans called him a "pathological liar"-- their words, not mine.

IOW, the warning signs were there almost from the get-go.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's not what his sister, whom he says that he's the closest to, and his niece say, namely that he has always been pro-choice and only "converted" to being pro-life in order to run on the Republican ticket in 2016. He's long been known out East as being a "con man" as he has a long history of "playing" people and that he's always been out just for himself according to them.

Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Achievements (2016-2020)
Not bad for a con man and playing people. Seems the only con men and women are the Democrats who have to use a play on words in their messaging to get people to support bad policies like “Infrastructure Bill” “Covid relief” etc. when the bills contain mostly other things and a lot of wasteful spending.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, there is a difference but IMV, that is just a matter of waiting until medical capacity catches up. IMV, test tube babies can eventually be a reality.

And that helps today desperate women how, exactly?

 

[Nakosis]

I'm not sure I can agree. I still vividly recall Trump waving a Bible around in front of St. John's in Washington. Trump is clearly using "faith" (if not his, then that of his presumed followers) as a tool in electioneering.

I do not find this sort of "faith of convenience" to mean a lot, and frankly, I'd be surprised that his followers credit him -- except that so many of those followers watch their own pastors in their mega-churches doing the same thing, except for jet planes and huge buckets of cash.

I think the Christian idea is to have faith in God, not in each other. I tend to see Christianity as the religion for the deplorables. Folks unable to get themselves right with God without the grace of Jesus. Sins tend to be overlooked if one pays lip service to Jesus.

I know democrats do as well but there are a few social issues Christians prefer republicans on.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

BTW, when is Trump going to release his tax returns as he repeatedly promised prior to the 2016 election? I was VERY confident he wouldn't because of his previous record of dishonesty, whereas some fellow Republicans called him a "pathological liar"-- their words, not mine.

IOW, the warning signs were there almost from the get-go.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's some evidence of fraud in his tax returns that he knows will incriminate him, and he's refusing to release them because he wants to protect himself from criminal prosecution and prison. The law will catch up with him eventually, and he won't be protected from prosecution since he's not the president anymore. It would be satisfying to see him in handcuffs.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Not so out of the box, though. It's the traditional religious answer - what the other guy ought to do because your religion told you so. And for whatever reason, you think your opinion should constrain others who don't share it. But there is really no reason why anybody should care what you or any other person believes about abortion in any given pregnancy, just what the potential mother does. It's not your business. It's not your deity's business, either. Nor the business of any other described or imagined deity, nor any religious group. That's thinking out of the box - out of the faith-based, religious box. We've been in the Age of Reason for centuries now, but not everybody wants to jump out of the Age of Faith box that preceded it.

Not really,.., it is logical and empirically verifiable. You could also take the pill, use condoms or even have tubes tied that can be reversed. You are still responsible

But none of that is relevant to the woman with an unwanted pregnancy.

I mentioned earlier that it would be next to impossible to get anybody opposed to abortion rights to consider the issue in any other light than what they believe that their God wants. But many others don't care what you believe or what you think your God wants for them. It's simply not part of the ethical calculus. I doubt you'd be too happy if a religion sprung up that taught that all pregnancies should be aborted. You'd resent the imposition of religious beliefs that you don't share onto your life. So why can't you see that many others feel the same way about your religion? I think you can, but don't care. Your concern is carrying water for your God and your religious beliefs, and apparently nothing else regarding this issue. I also predicted that no anti-abortionist would address the issue of rights, which is how many frame the issue.

The issue for me is not religious, but one of the rights of free citizens under a secular government. Who shall make the decision - the potential mother, or the church using the power of the state? I know your answer, even though you won't state it. You clearly believe that that right should be taken away from her, but would rather talk about what the pregnant woman could have done to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, which is irrelevant once she's pregnant. By then, the issue is merely one of rights and personal values. If she doesn't value the fetus, then she should abort its gestation if that's what she wants, whether any God is said to approve or not.

Sorry that you find abortion so repulsive, but that's likely been conditioned into you, as the "pro-life" movement in America is dominated by Christians, with most irreligious people supporting abortion rights. Why is that? Why do people who got to church object so much more than those who don't? I think the answer is obvious - manufactured outrage. Call fetuses children, call their termination murder, use the word innocent a lot. Organic or natural outrage cuts across multiple demographics. When it is concentrated in a subset of people connected by an ideology, it's the ideology.

This is the world you are willing to return to based on religious beliefs:

"Women's rights lawyer Gloria Allred is opening up about an abortion she had in the 1960s after she was raped at gunpoint in Mexico. The sexual assault happened while Allred was on vacation in her 20s, she said, and forced her to get an illegal abortion after she returned to the United States. "I had to get a back-alley abortion in a bathtub from a person who was not licensed, they were just doing it for the money," she said. When she started hemorrhaging after the procedure, the person who performed the procedure told her it was her problem now, she said. During her ordeal, she was hospitalized with a fever of 106 degrees -- surrounded by women who'd had illegal abortions, she said. "The only time a hospital would admit a woman like me was if she was bleeding to death from an abortion," she said. "The nurse said to me, 'This should teach you a lesson.' The lesson I did learn is that abortion should be safe, legal, affordable and available."
Gloria Allred says she had a back-alley abortion after she was raped at gunpoint - CNN​

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think the Christian idea is to have faith in God, not in each other. I tend to see Christianity as the religion for the deplorables. Folks unable to get themselves right with God without the grace of Jesus. Sins tend to be overlooked if one pays lip service to Jesus.

I know democrats do as well but there are a few social issues Christians prefer republicans on.

For example, sins are overlooked if the Republican candidate pays lip service to Jesus, and we witnessed this in the GOP from the time Trump began his first presidential campaign in 2015 to today. And this isn't something I'm flippantly saying without providing evidence to validate my statement, either. I've provided several examples in a post earlier on in this thread, and my post can be read by clicking here. I know some Christian Trump supporters like to believe that they're more righteous than Democrats, but they are not. If morality, and upholding biblical principles, was vitally important to these Christians who support Trump, then they never would have voted for him in the first place. They would have shamed and shunned him like they did Bill Clinton, instead of insisting that they voted for president, and not a pastor, or Trump's sins are between him and God, and Christians shouldn't judge him.

 

[Nakosis]

For example, sins are overlooked if the Republican candidate pays lip service to Jesus, and we witnessed this in the GOP from the time Trump began his first presidential campaign in 2015 to today. And this isn't something I'm flippantly saying without providing evidence to validate my statement, either. I've provided several examples in a post earlier on in this thread, and my post can be read by clicking here. I know Christian Trump supporters who like to believe that they're more righteous than Democrats, but they are not. If morality, and upholding biblical principles, was vitally important to these Christians who support Trump, then they never would have voted for him in the first place. They would have shamed and shunned him like they did Bill Clinton, instead of insisting that they voted for president, and not a pastor, or Trump's sins are between him and God, and Christians shouldn't judge him.

IMO, Christian leaders shouldn't involve themselves in politics. At least not in political parties.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But none of that is relevant to the woman with an unwanted pregnancy.

I mentioned earlier that it would be next to impossible to get anybody opposed to abortion rights to consider the issue in any other light than what they believe that their God wants. But many others don't care what you believe or what you think your God wants for them. It's simply not part of the ethical calculus. I doubt you'd be too happy if a religion sprung up that taught that all pregnancies should be aborted. You'd resent the imposition of religious beliefs that you don't share onto your life. So why can't you see that many others feel the same way about your religion? I think you can, but don't care. Your concern is carrying water for your God and your religious beliefs, and apparently nothing else regarding this issue. I also predicted that no anti-abortionist would address the issue of rights, which is how many frame the issue.

The issue for me is not religious, but one of the rights of free citizens under a secular government. Who shall make the decision - the potential mother, or the church using the power of the state? I know your answer, even though you won't state it. You clearly believe that that right should be taken away from her, but would rather talk about what the pregnant woman could have done to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, which is irrelevant once she's pregnant. By then, the issue is merely one of rights and personal values. If she doesn't value the fetus, then she should abort its gestation if that's what she wants, whether any God is said to approve or not.

Sorry that you find abortion so repulsive, but that's likely been conditioned into you, as the "pro-life" movement in America is dominated by Christians, with most irreligious people supporting abortion rights. Why is that? Why do people who got to church object so much more than those who don't? I think the answer is obvious - manufactured outrage. Call fetuses children, call their termination murder, use the word innocent a lot. Organic or natural outrage cuts across multiple demographics. When it is concentrated in a subset of people connected by an ideology, it's the ideology.

This is the world you are willing to return to based on religious beliefs:

"Women's rights lawyer Gloria Allred is opening up about an abortion she had in the 1960s after she was raped at gunpoint in Mexico. The sexual assault happened while Allred was on vacation in her 20s, she said, and forced her to get an illegal abortion after she returned to the United States. "I had to get a back-alley abortion in a bathtub from a person who was not licensed, they were just doing it for the money," she said. When she started hemorrhaging after the procedure, the person who performed the procedure told her it was her problem now, she said. During her ordeal, she was hospitalized with a fever of 106 degrees -- surrounded by women who'd had illegal abortions, she said. "The only time a hospital would admit a woman like me was if she was bleeding to death from an abortion," she said. "The nurse said to me, 'This should teach you a lesson.' The lesson I did learn is that abortion should be safe, legal, affordable and available."
Gloria Allred says she had a back-alley abortion after she was raped at gunpoint - CNN​

Excellent post!

I really like your point, which anti-abortion set returns to over and over again but what could have been done to prevent pregnancy -- but of course once the pregnancy happens, that is no longer the question, and it is now simply one of the rights of citizens in a free society. It's very hard to get the religious objectors to address that point directly, without all the noice they throw in to confuse the point, isn't?

I also like your point about the "pro-life" crowd being dominated by Christians, while the non-religious are generally a lot more comfortable with freedom of choice. But I also find it interesting that those most in favour of the death penalty are primarily those very same "pro-life" Christians! Almost all of the non-religious that I know are totally against the death penalty.

 

[ElishaElijah]

IMO, Christian leaders shouldn't involve themselves in politics. At least not in political parties.

For sure, they should be concerned and speak out about the issues, we all should instead of being for a particular party.

 

[metis]

Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Achievements (2016-2020)
Not bad for a con man and playing people. Seems the only con men and women are the Democrats who have to use a play on words in their messaging to get people to support bad policies like “Infrastructure Bill” “Covid relief” etc. when the bills contain mostly other things and a lot of wasteful spending.

Did you actually notice the starting date above? You've been "played" as have millions of others.

Oh, we didn't need an infrastructure bill passed even though we have a D+ rating? And did you support Trump's huge tax break that mostly went to the wealthy? Betcha did.

 

[metis]

It wouldn't surprise me if there's some evidence of fraud in his tax returns that he knows will incriminate him, and he's refusing to release them because he wants to protect himself from criminal prosecution and prison. The law will catch up with him eventually, and he won't be protected from prosecution since he's not the president anymore. It would be satisfying to see him in handcuffs.

Yep, probably so, which may well explain why the NY investigators have already hired a criminal prosecutor.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Did you actually notice the starting date above? You've been "played" as have millions of others.

Oh, we didn't need an infrastructure bill passed even though we have a D+ rating? And did you support Trump's huge tax break that mostly went to the wealthy? Betcha did.

I supported some of what Trump did and other things no, that’s how it works. I’m looking for a needle in a haystack to find something to support Biden for or any Democrat for that matter. Trump had his season as President some things I supported some I didn’t.

 

[metis]

I supported some of what Trump did and other things no, that’s how it works.

You didn't answer the question: did you support Trump's unpaid for tax break that mostly went to the wealthy, yes or no-- no song & dance please.

I’m looking for a needle in a haystack to find something to support Biden for or any Democrat for that matter.

Most Americans actually support most of the provisions of the BBB and also the infrastructure bill, so obviously you're very much an outlier even amongst Republicans. Maybe if you looked harder and also tried to consider basic Judeo-Christian teachings you'd change your mind, maybe using the Sermon On the Mount as the model for example. Helping those in need is not a sin but refusing to help them out is.