Christian Wicca

[jeffrey]

Maybe I speak the truth and you speak the lie. Just because it is written does not make it so. You have the right to believe what you may, and so do I. It boggles my mind how someone can say what is right for them is right for everyone else. I know what I feel in my heart. God knows also. And it blows of away how some think they are so above everyone that they can speak for God.

 

[wmam]

Maybe I speak the truth and you speak the lie.

I speak neither but that of YAH and that be Truth. I speak not of myself or others but of the Word of YAH which is Truth.

Just because it is written does not make it so.

If it be the True inspired Word of YAH then it is Truth and yes it is so.

You have the right to believe what you may, and so do I.

This is Truth. As well as we have the right to burn in the lake of fire if we do not choose to follow the Truth.

It boggles my mind how someone can say what is right for them is right for everyone else.

I know, right? But then there is only one right and so many wrong. Choose wisely.

I know what I feel in my heart.

KJV.......

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Pro 14:14 The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.

Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

God knows also.

This is most assuredly Truth.

And it blows of away how some think they are so above everyone that they can speak for God.

I am not one that speaks for YAH. YAH speaks for Himself just nicely.

 

[Mike182]

Can you recommend some good reading(From scratch so to speak), for someone who wants to learn ?

i have just finished reading an amber K book, i disagreed with bits of it and agreed with other bits of it, like, i don't feel that any spell work has to be completed in a certain way and no other way - i have read many more but cannot quote them off hand, as i have had to return them to my teachers

i think the main point is that any books you do choose, do not accept them to be truth at face value, rather, question other pagans on the issues raised (if you do not have any physical teachers, i think most the pagans/wiccans on the forum woul dbe happy to help guide you mich)

now then, down to buisness - wmam:
you speak the exact christian dogma that did a lot to hurt me for a long time, the idea that "you have freedom, but if you do not choose what i say to choose, you will burn for eternity" - this is not "freedom" and creates an awful lot of guilt in people who do not believe the same way! arguments like this have been used a lot to surpress homosexuality in the churchs, and also the reason why so many different denominations find it hard to find any form of cohesion! the bible was not written by jesus, the son of God, and so that means the bible was written as a human interpritation of jesus, which means it would be naive to say it is the single truth

blessed be
mike

 

[wmam]

now then, down to buisness - wmam:
you speak the exact christian dogma that did a lot to hurt me for a long time

I am not christian and if you allow words to hurt you then then there is nothing I can do to help you.

the idea that "you have freedom, but if you do not choose what i say to choose, you will burn for eternity" - this is not "freedom" and creates an awful lot of guilt in people who do not believe the same way!

You, as well as anyone else, have the right to choose whatever belief you want to and you also have the right to disagree with the Truth. I am not going to stop you from burning if that be your choice.

arguments like this have been used a lot to surpress homosexuality in the churchs, and also the reason why so many different denominations find it hard to find any form of cohesion!

Nor, by Truth, will they if they don't follow and obey the Truth.

the bible was not written by jesus, the son of God, and so that means the bible was written as a human interpritation of jesus, which means it would be naive to say it is the single truth

Then you are saying to me that you believe that what is considered to be Truth by way of the True inspired Word of YAH is false? If so then that is your right but I totally disagree with that idea.

 

[Mike182]

I am not christian and if you allow words to hurt you then then there is nothing I can do to help you.

oh trust me, guilt from the hars words of a few christians has no sway over me now

You, as well as anyone else, have the right to choose whatever belief you want to and you also have the right to disagree with the Truth. I am not going to stop you from burning if that be your choice.

you have just emphasised my original point

Nor, by Truth, will they if they don't follow and obey the Truth.

again you speak of truth, yet fail to define what truth is if we all knew what the "truth" was, we would be following it, and as many people claim they follow what is true for them, it is just as valid to conclude that there are multiple truths as it is to conclude that there is only one truth and many other decieved and damned people

Then you are saying to me that you believe that what is considered to be Truth by way of the True inspired Word of YAH is false? If so then that is your right but I totally disagree with that idea.

what i am saying is that jesus did not write the book, and god did not write the book, so who did? a human, prone to human error and imperfections

 

[jeffrey]

This is too funny. You claim to speak for God. You claim you are right and everyone else is wrong, because you choose to believe a book that was written over 2,000 year ago, claiming your definition is the only definition. People like you turn people away from God, so, since God wants us all to know him, how could you possibly speak the truth? Only one explaination. You do not know God's truth.

 

[jeffrey]

Mike, Michel, Floppy, .. Rebecca just bought a couple books. She'll post them in our forum shortly!

 

[Mike182]

This is too funny. You claim to speak for God. You claim you are right and everyone else is wrong, because you choose to believe a book that was written over 2,000 year ago, claiming your definition is the only definition. People like you turn people away from God, so, since God wants up all to know him, how could you possibly know the truth? Only one explaination.

remember, personal assults are not part of our friendly environment - please keep civil

ps, this is not a mod post :biglaugh:

edit: thankyou for editing your post, much abliged

 

[jeffrey]

I'll edit

 

[Fluffy]

Your yet wrong again. Being christian has nothing to do with my disagreeing with your belief.

That makes no sense. Do you mean your not being Christian...? If so then it is not the point. I was stating that your disagreement is all very well and good but is not representative of Christian beliefs and at the same time there are plenty of Christians who do believe as I stated and thereby legitimising the focus on Jesus and the understanding of God via him.

Just because some do isn't all and the some cannot speak for the all. LOL

I agree again. Yet they are all Christian. I make no claim that I combine every single Christian faith with every single Wiccan faith. Just aspects of the former with aspects of the latter. I do not need every Christian to agree with me.

Oh so this belief is just another of the many in which fall under the premiss of so called christianity?

Some Christians do believe interpreting the Bible as the word of God corrupted by man, yes.

Are you sure?

Perfectly...

I don't give a crap what you call yourself either. LOL ..... thats funny. You can combine whatever you want and call it by whatever you want. It makes not a difference to me. But it is not me that one should be in fear of either.

... I agree fully that you do not give a crap what I call myself, that you find it funny, that I may combine whatever and call it whatever I want, that it makes no difference to you and, finally, I certainly agree that you are not somebody who I should be afraid of.

Sure....... You make it and send me the link.

I do not wish to presume what lies you are referring to, especially when I am unable to identify them myself. I suppose I could start a general thread but given that the majority of people do not feel that the site contains "lies" I feel it would be rather pointless were it not started from the opposing view.

Oh now that is a total lie. I have not labeled anyone negatively. Only actions and beliefs, in which I debate, do I feel negatively about if they fall outside the Truth. And here I thought you didn't care what you called yourself and I was only backing you up.. LOL

Actions and beliefs are part of who somebody is. You cannot remove them without changing that person. I thank you for you support.

I agree that what is spewed as some believe may not hurt a body but it is the soul in which I worry.

I'd advise worrying about your own soul before anyone elses especially those who you believe fall outside of the Truth.

I speak neither but that of YAH and that be Truth. I speak not of myself or others but of the Word of YAH which is Truth.

jgallandt accused you of potentially speaking the lie rather than the truth. You say you speak neither as in you speak neither a lie nor the truth. You then end this sentence saying you speak the Truth. Is the Truth not a truth?

If it be the True inspired Word of YAH then it is Truth and yes it is so.

I can understand capitalisation of the noun but of the adjective? English is generally devoid of proper adjectives. What does the capitalisation of this adjective represent?

This is Truth. As well as we have the right to burn in the lake of fire if we do not choose to follow the Truth.

The lake of fire according to the Truth which, as we have yet to establish, may or may not be true .

I know, right? But then there is only one right and so many wrong. Choose wisely.

Possibly. But not necessarily. There might be no wrong in this and many right.

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Pro 14:14 The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.

Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

It is physically impossible to not trust in ones heart. You cannot doubt your feelings since in doing the doubting you are trusting in other feelings.

I am not one that speaks for YAH. YAH speaks for Himself just nicely.

You contradict yourself surely? Look at the first part of this post: "I speak neither but that of YAH and that be Truth."

I am not going to stop you from burning if that be your choice.

Thank you very much. I can assure you that we would all appreciate that immensely.

Then you are saying to me that you believe that what is considered to be Truth by way of the True inspired Word of YAH is false? If so then that is your right but I totally disagree with that idea.

Just the truth as you see wman.

 

[wmam]

oh trust me, guilt from the hars words of a few christians has no sway over me now

Good. I know where you are coming from on this note.

you have just emphasised my original point

Then it must be that I agree with that point.

again you speak of truth, yet fail to define what truth is

Ummm........ It is not up to me to define that which is of YAH but rather show how YAH defines it Himself through His True inspired Word...........

Joh 17:17 “Set them apart in Your truth – Your Word is truth.

if we all knew what the "truth" was, we would be following it, and as many people claim they follow what is true for them, it is just as valid to conclude that there are multiple truths as it is to conclude that there is only one truth and many other decieved and damned people

Something else we agree on. I have often stated that not all of the beliefs can be right but all can be wrong.

what i am saying is that jesus did not write the book, and god did not write the book, so who did? a human, prone to human error and imperfections

This is true as far as the human condition. I see we do agree on allot but I say I disagree with this point in its whole for my belief is that of the True inspired Word of YAH. His Word is Truth and it is in the Scripture. That is my belief as I will follow to the ends of time for I know through the Spirit that I am right. I speak not of my own heart but that which has filled me and knowing the Truth that binds me to know no other but one. The Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth. So help me YAH!

 

[Mike182]

Good. I know where you are coming from on this note.

goodo

Then it must be that I agree with that point.

goodo goodo

Something else we agree on. I have often stated that not all of the beliefs can be right but all can be wrong.

i think you may not understand what i am saying. what i mean is, it is a valid argument to claim that all religions are "true", and it is also a valid argument that no religions are "true" - i personally believe that all religions lead to divinity, and so all religions are true

This is true as far as the human condition. I see we do agree on allot but I say I disagree with this point in its whole for my belief is that of the True inspired Word of YAH. His Word is Truth and it is in the Scripture. That is my belief as I will follow to the ends of time for I know through the Spirit that I am right. I speak not of my own heart but that which has filled me and knowing the Truth that binds me to know no other but one. The Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth. So help me YAH!

ok, now i understand! your beloief is in the word of God as recorded in scriptures, and that these recorded words are the be all and end all. i now understand your stance and point of argument in regards to:

Ummm........ It is not up to me to define that which is of YAH but rather show how YAH defines it Himself through His True inspired Word...........

Joh 17:17 “Set them apart in Your truth – Your Word is truth.

well, you have a valid argument, i simply believe differently to you

blessed be

 

[jeffrey]

'Inspired'....To motivate as by some creative effort..... This has got to be one of the most misused words people use to describe how God influenced the Bible. He motivated people to write it, but did not white it or create a robot out of man to write it, then it has been passed down, rewritten countless times, translated, each time with man doing so, which creates even more errors.

 

[Mike182]

'Inspired'....To motivate as by some creative effort..... This has got to be one of the most misused words people use to describe how God influenced the Bible. He motivated people to write it, but did not white it or create a robot out of man to write it, then it has been passed down, rewritten countless times, translated, each time with man doing so, which creates even more errors.

:biglaugh: now thats what i call truth

must spread karma before giving it to you again, it apears ive frubald you a tad to many times, and im sure i still owe you from some time in the not-so-distant past

 

[Fluffy]

'Inspired'....To motivate as by some creative effort..... This has got to be one of the most misused words people use to describe how God influenced the Bible. He motivated people to write it, but did not white it or create a robot out of man to write it, then it has been passed down, rewritten countless times, translated, each time with man doing so, which creates even more errors.

Exactly and then you have to take into account the audience God was writing for and the medium through which he wanted to do it. All of it adds up.

 

[jeffrey]

I got to pass some more around myself, for you and Fluffy both! Be tomorrow morning, hit you both then Great posts by the both!

 

[Mike182]

Exactly and then you have to take into account the audience God was writing for and the medium through which he wanted to do it. All of it adds up.

and hey, non of them had any biases in that day and age, it was equality all the way

 

[Fluffy]

I got to pass some more around myself, for you and Fluffy both! Be tomorrow morning, hit you both then Great posts by the both!

Thank you jgallandt! I second that for both you and Mike

By the way can I call you something other than jgallandt, its just whenever I type it I always get the nasty feeling I've spelt it wrong! .

and hey, non of them had any biases in that day and age, it was equality all the way

lol precisely . In fact it leads me to my next big musing, why did God choose to have the Bible written in the first place especially from a CW perspective? But that is for another thread to be sure.

 

[jeffrey]

Mike, Fluffy, just call me Jeff!

 

[Mike182]

Mike, Fluffy, just call me Jeff!

what? jeff???? but, you, i, .... .... .... this breaks all the laws of social formalities! i shall shake my tuna fish in your general direction :biglaugh: