'Christian'

[Thief]

If a king is to come rule Israel then He is Savior of Jews only?

if the Christian report is correct......no

He sent His disciples unto all nations

 

[CLee421]

I will start a thread for this later @Rival please check it out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see your point of how it could offend people. Although I don't look at it like you do, I do see your point of view. However Messianic Jew is not offensive? It's Jews that believe Jesus is their Messiah. Who can say that is offensive?


I'm not trinitarian; so that doesn't apply to me. I believe in One God like Moses did.

The "church" took things? What church? I'm talking about the book of Acts church. They were all Jews at first. It was only later that they got the revelation that the Light of the Jewish Messiah was for the goyim also.

Othorodox Church. Christianity is not Judaism. That's the difference. Judaism doesn't have human sacrifice. The Catholic Church does. It's a big thing that distinguishes Jesus teachings and denominational interpretation of the role of jesus' death to the point of worshiping Jesus rather than his father.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

First, we were called "Followers of the Way" .... I do like that.

That's what I call myself too.

 

[CLee421]

Othorodox Church. Christianity is not Judaism. That's the difference. Judaism doesn't have human sacrifice. The Catholic Church does. It's a big thing that distinguishes Jesus teachings and denominational interpretation of the role of jesus' death to the point of worshiping Jesus rather than his father.

Judaism may not seem to say anything about human sacrifice but Genesis says the only way to forgive sin is by innocent blood being spilled. They KNEW animal sacrifices were a covering for sin but not permanent. That's why they had to do it over and over and over. God Himself coming and spilling His blood - that's a sacrifice good enough for all who ever lived or will live.

God said He would send a Seed, to save mankind. The only way to do that was to become the perfect sacrifice.

As far as worshipping Jesus and not the Father many places Jesus says He is One with the Father - that's why Jews continued to try to stone Him before they convinced the Romans to crucify Him. This had to happen, of course.

I like your picture btw @Unveiled Artist

 

[Windwalker]

Huh? Judaism was Judaism. Christianity was Christianity. The Church took a lot of Jewish parts (sacrificial meal, for example) and added it to their faith which is also in part Greek and later Roman too.

I even saw on this forum that Jews say they don't even believe on the same god as christians (in regards to the trinity).

The Church took things from Judaism is a fact. Judaism wasn't ever part of the Christian faith (no human sacrifice for atoning sins).

Huh?

This is technically wrong. You are mistaken about the origins of Christianity. It very much began as a Jewish sect, which evolved and morphed into a much larger egalitarian community. Eventually, it broke off from Judaism into a force of its own.

When you read for instance the Gospel of Matthew, it reflects that growing divide between the Jews and the Christian sect within it. It's seen in how it imagines itself in relation to the Jews, making the Pharisees for instance a target of their wrath in the mouth of their Jesus. And so on.

I'm not sure where you imagine the Christian faith came from then? It just arouse outside any other religion, out of nowhere?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Judaism may not seem to say anything about human sacrifice but Genesis says the only way to forgive sin is by innocent blood being spilled. They KNEW animal sacrifices were a covering for sin but not permanent. That's why they had to do it over and over and over. God Himself coming and spilling His blood - that's a sacrifice good enough for all who ever lived or will live.

Animal sacrifices and only animal sacrifices. Not human. That's no where near Judaism. That's the biggest separation between the two religions. If you follow jesus, you follow the laws of Moses and you worship god not Christ.

To me, worshiping someone who died and "spilled blood" is very barbaric. Not at all a Jewish belief. Actually, I don't think Muslims believe that either. It's a Christian thing. Even other religions outside European sacrifice animals not humans.

God said He would send a Seed, to save mankind. The only way to do that was to become the perfect sacrifice.

That's christianity. If god were the same in the OT as New, there would be no human sacrifice. God so didn't say to worship his son. He said through his son, worship God.

As far as worshipping Jesus and not the Father many places Jesus says He is One with the Father - that's why Jews continued to try to stone Him before they convinced the Romans to crucify Him. This had to happen, of course.

That's a common verse to quote. It's the English language. Two separate people become one, like a marriage, become one in Union not become each other. It's always Through jesus not to jesus. Always Through.

I like your picture btw

Thanks. Love it myself

This is technically wrong. You are mistaken about the origins of Christianity. It very much began as a Jewish sect, which evolved and morphed into a much larger egalitarian community. Eventually, it broke off from Judaism into a force of its own.

Thanks. That still means that christianity is not Jewish now that human sacrifice played a role.

Trying to remember what we learned in art class couple months ago. Christian history is something else, I tell ya.

When you read for instance the Gospel of Matthew, it reflects that growing divide between the Jews and the Christian sect within it. It's seen in how it imagines itself in relation to the Jews, making the Pharisees for instance a target of their wrath in the mouth of their

True. I read it in acts. The apostles were trying to convert the Jews to Christ

I'm not sure where you imagine the Christian faith came from then? It just arouse outside any other religion, out of nowhere?

Christianity became christianity when human sacrifice came about. I don't know why it would change unless christians didn't agree with the laws of Moses to which jesus always referred to.

 

[Earthling]

For a long while now I've noticed this trend of what are, honestly, Christians refusing to call themselves such. It's as though there's this aversion to the label 'Christian', when most of the people refusing to use the term are clearly Christians. I've seen,

'Bible believer'
'Jesus believer'
'Follower/Disciple of Jesus'
'Messianic'
'Completed Jew' [this one is also offensive]
'Biblist'

etc.

Any reason why 'Christian' is a dirty word to, well, Christians? I've not observed this in any other large faith group. Muslims call themselves Muslims, Jews call themselves Jews, Baha'is call themselves Baha'is.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 The last half of the fourth century saw the Emperor Constantine, a pagan sun worshiper hijack Christianity for political reasons, although apostasy had already set in even before Christ, especially with Alexander The Great's influence on Jewish thinking by introducing Greek philosophy into their culture. The result was the pagan teachings of the immortal soul, trinity, cross, hell, Christmas, Easter and the Church of Rome. When the Protestants broke free from the blood thirsty and ungodly grip of the church they clung dogmatically to most of those apostate teachings.

I don't think many mainstream Christians post on forums like these, it's primarily those who have begun to question the teachings of traditional mainstream modern day Christianity, probably because we have nowhere else to go.

 

[Rival]

the immortal soul

This is a Jewish concept.

 

[CLee421]

@Unveiled Artist -- ""That's christianity. If god were the same in the OT as New, there would be no human sacrifice. God so didn't say to worship his son. He said through his son, worship God.""

God said He would send a Seed to save mankind and that innocent blood was required to forgive sin in Genesis, a Jewish book. The idea is that God came in the form of a Man to put a magnifying glass on what He told His people so long ago.

 

[David1967]

For a long while now I've noticed this trend of what are, honestly, Christians refusing to call themselves such. It's as though there's this aversion to the label 'Christian', when most of the people refusing to use the term are clearly Christians. I've seen,

'Bible believer'
'Jesus believer'
'Follower/Disciple of Jesus'
'Messianic'
'Completed Jew' [this one is also offensive]
'Biblist'

etc.

Any reason why 'Christian' is a dirty word to, well, Christians? I've not observed this in any other large faith group. Muslims call themselves Muslims, Jews call themselves Jews, Baha'is call themselves Baha'is.

Completed Jew? LOL. I've never heard that before. And yes that is offensive.
I think that there are some Christians who call themselves other names like the ones you mentioned because they want to put emphasis on the group they are a part of. Such as Catholic, Baptist, LDS, JW. Etc. It's a very diverse religion with notable differences between denominations. You make a good point and I think it would be helpful to say something along the lines of, "I am a Christian of this particular faith. "

 

[Earthling]

This is a Jewish concept.

Not originally, no. It comes from Socrates. Well, actually it comes originally from Babylon, but it wasn't until Alexander had the aforementioned influence through Socrates.

 

[Windwalker]

Thanks. That still means that christianity is not Jewish now that human sacrifice played a role.

I would agree today Christianity is sufficiently morphed enough to be called its own thing apart from its original beginning in Judaism. But it doesn't have to with human sacrifice. In fact, that actually is not part of Christianity either. They don't sacrifice humans to God.

True. I read it in acts. The apostles were trying to convert the Jews to Christ

They were trying to get them to accept Jesus was the Jewish messiah. They weren't trying to convert them to another religion.

Christianity became christianity when human sacrifice came about.

That is completely wrong. First, if you're talking about Jesus death, that is not where Christianity became its own thing. Not by any stretch. It was part of Judaism still for decades following that.

 

[Yohanan ben Yaaqov]

God said He would send a Seed to save mankind and that innocent blood was required to forgive sin in Genesis, a Jewish book.

If you are going to make such an utterly ridiculous claim, please provide a chapter and verse.

 

[Earthling]

If you are going to make such an utterly ridiculous claim, please provide a chapter and verse.

Read Genesis 3:15 in a good reference study Bible and check out all of the verses connected to it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Now I understand. These are all just spin-offs of Judaism, which can be thought of as Happy Days. That makes Christianity LaVerne and Shirley, Islam Mork and Mindy, and Mormonism Joanie Loves Chachi. Is that correct?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would agree today Christianity is sufficiently morph wased enough to be called its own thing apart from its original beginning in Judaism. But it doesn't have to with human sacrifice. In fact, that actually is not part of Christianity either. They don't sacrifice humans to God.


They were trying to get them to accept Jesus was the Jewish messiah. They weren't trying to convert them to another religion.


That is completely wrong. First, if you're talking about Jesus death, that is not where Christianity became its own thing. Not by any stretch. It was part of Judaism still for decades following that.

What I mean by christianity is the role of human sacrifice that didn't have a play in Judaism. So, I haven't read in the Bible to worship jesus because he gave himself up to his god. It was hard reading relations but what I most remember is OT Torah and gospels.

By religion I mean another cultural and worldview, for lack of better words, than ones former practice. So, the apostles were evangelizing to the gentiles to change their worldview from paganism to that of Christ. I'm don't have negative connotations with the word religion and christianity.

According to the church (othorodox before split) when did the apostles talk about human sacrifice in relation to worship and jesus role?

If not the Bible (ideally speaking), were did they get it from?

History aside, since I never heard history supporting spiritual views such as God doing and saying anything in real life and recorded as such, but spiritually, I'd assume (since I can't remember) it's a Roman thing.

Can't remember what period. Renaissance, sometime before the Botesque period, something other. Greeks and Romans had a huge play on Christian (not jewish) history.

Let me ask, why do christians try to take out Greek and Roman influence in the Christian faith? It's all in Scripture. We talked a bit about Ephesians doing that time period. Romans (the book) too.

It doesn't take away from the authenticity of Scripture. Why cut it out?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I think it’s an extension of the whole “it’s not a religion; it’s a relationship with Jesus” thing that’s popular with some Protestants.

Yes, the word religion has also been pejorated, and Christians are backing away from it. The variation I see most often is "I'm not religious - I'm spiritual."

The Church took things from Judaism is a fact.

Agreed, including the Commandment Thou shalt not steal.

 

[Yohanan ben Yaaqov]

Read Genesis 3:15 in a good reference study Bible and check out all of the verses connected to it.

וְאֵיבָה׀ אָשִׁית בֵּינְךָ וּבֵין הָאִשָּׁה וּבֵין זַרְעֲךָ וּבֵין זַרְעָהּ הוּא יְשׁוּפְךָ רֹאשׁ וְאַתָּה תְּשׁוּפֶנּוּ עָקֵב׃
V’éyvah ʾashiyt béyn’ḵa uvéyn haʾishah uvéyn zar’ăḵa uvéyn zar’ah huʾ y’shuf’ḵa roʾsh v’attah t’shufennu ʿaqév:

“I shall place hatred between you and between the woman and between your offspring and between her offspring and he will crush your head and you will bite his heel.”

Nothing about sin; nothing about blood; nothing about innocence; nothing about forgiveness. This is about people hating snakes and snakes hating people. Snakes tend to strike people’s lower extremities, and people tend to smash snakes’ heads with shovels or whatever else is handy at the moment.

 

[Tammie]

Rival said:
For a long while now I've noticed this trend of what are, honestly, Christians refusing to call themselves such. It's as though there's this aversion to the label 'Christian', when most of the people refusing to use the term are clearly Christians. I've seen,

Hi Rival!
I can't speak on behalf of someone else.....but I can speak for myself. I have not gone to an organized church for ten years now....and whenever anyone would ask me in the past (previous to ten years ago) if I was a Christian and I would tell them yes.....they would always come back with what kind? I would ask....what do you mean what kind? What Church do you go to? Every Church is filled with their own doctrines. Most people will categorize you with that type of thought. My husband and I choose to keep the Sabbath.....but we do not go to any organized churches and rather have small Bible Studies with just the two of us or others when they choose to do so. Even though the meaning of the word Christian has a meaning of being "Christ Like" , the meaning has been distorted. Some people call themselves Christian and you can truly see that they are. However, there are those that also call themselves Christian and there is nothing Christ Like about them.

For my husband and I, we seek the truth daily through the Word of God and find it to be the way we want to live our lives. After meeting people it becomes very clear as to if they really know what the meaning of being a Christian is.