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Christianity must change or die

Vasiel

The Seeker
Being a Christian is not a matter of following the teachings as they are written in a book and thinking one can make changes from what Paul or Jesus says.That makes a religion but Christianity is not a religion.A true Christian has the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them and the Spirit convicts the heart of what is truth.The laws are written in the heart of man and cannot be changed.

Belief in the Holy Spirit as an indwelling force of inspiration is a truth relative to your experience and cannot be considered "absolute" truth without some kind of evidence to back it up.

Therefore Christianity is in fact, just like every other religion. The only difference is you believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit, instead of believing in say Vishnu and his Avatar Krishna... or in Odin and his son Baldr, or in Osiris and his son Horus.

Or Buddha, and his son Rahula.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the belief, but surely you have the sense to see that Christianity is as much a religion, and a way of life, as say Hinduism and Buddhism. Different people approach Christianity from the way that they as individuals resonate towards the doctrine, through their own experiences in dealing with God/Christ.

No two Christians will have the exact same view of God.
 

Villager

Active Member
Belief in the Holy Spirit as an indwelling force of inspiration is a truth relative to your experience and cannot be considered "absolute" truth without some kind of evidence to back it up.
Maybe one has to be a Christian to have that evidence.

No two Christians will have the exact same view of God.
Perhaps the fear that people have is that Christians are agreed on everything of importance.
 

Vasiel

The Seeker
Maybe one has to be a Christian to have that evidence.

Then I still say that the "evidence" is based again on relative truth, since belief is primarily based in people's relative circumstances and experiences. And yes, in saying this, I am also speaking from my personal experience and understanding of faith and how it works within my life, and the lives of those I know. So I cannot claim absolute certainty in this point, I am just giving you my perception of the situation. Namaste!
 

Villager

Active Member
Then I still say that the "evidence" is based again on relative truth, since belief is primarily based in people's relative circumstances and experiences. And yes, in saying this, I am also speaking from my personal experience and understanding of faith and how it works within my life, and the lives of those I know. So I cannot claim absolute certainty in this point, I am just giving you my perception of the situation. Namaste!
Namaste! I agree that evidence is relative, and that personal perceptions must be the outer limit in many situations; but then everything in the sphere of belief is relative. The only things that can be proved by means of compelling, formal logic and empirical methods, like an algebraic proof, and the valency of oxygen, are ultimately of no use (even if they are of use!). Ultimately, each person must be, and is, the sole arbiter of what is true for him or her.

To someone who has never experienced a particularly special, enhanced sensation, like tasting best Darjeeling tea, or sipping vintage port, or riding a GP motorbike, or taking cocaine- all rather exclusive, if not expensive experiences, I believe- an attempt to explain them is liable to be unsatisfactory. Even describing fully the taste of affordable potatoes or eggs would stretch the skills of the finest writer. If the experience of the 'indwelling of the Holy Spirit' is likewise available only to those who permit that indwelling, one can hardly ask for evidence of it in order to believe in it. The person in whom the Spirit is claimed to dwell may be legitimately convinced; or he or she may be deceiving themselves (or attempting to deceive others). The problem then arises of discovering which of these applies.

What one can do is expect what are claimed as the observable results of that indwelling. Those are known as the fruits of the Spirit, behavioural responses that are generally supposed to be beneficial to society, at the personal, family, local and wider level. Patience, kindness, honesty, willingness to forgive, humility, cheerfulness, reliability, generosity, peacableness, all these leading to a quiet and content spirit that would tend to lead to concord in the home, workplace and elsewhere, are the signs of the Spirit, as claimed. If one who claims to possess the Spirit is impatient, dishonest, unforgiving, grumpy, unreliable, mean, quarrelsome, with a noisy, noisome effect on others, one can reasonably suppose that this person's claim is unjustified. If one who claims to possess the Spirit also possesses the Spirit's fruits, one can then take that as evidence that the claim is in this case justified.
 

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
Given that each person's ego will lead them almost inexorably to conclude that they do, in fact, exhibit these characteristics [all positive], I do not find this argument convincing at all. Essentially one merely decides they do in fact possess such a spirit. And this internal decision then gives the person the gratifying latitude to believe they possess the ability to spot it in others, among other things. There is a feeling of superiority and exclusivity; hence why skepticism should be immediate.

There are people all over the world in other faiths or with no faith who possess all the attributes mentioned. An external spirit isn't necessary to possess them.
 
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Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Belief in the Holy Spirit as an indwelling force of inspiration is a truth relative to your experience and cannot be considered "absolute" truth without some kind of evidence to back it up.

Therefore Christianity is in fact, just like every other religion. The only difference is you believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit, instead of believing in say Vishnu and his Avatar Krishna... or in Odin and his son Baldr, or in Osiris and his son Horus.

Or Buddha, and his son Rahula.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the belief, but surely you have the sense to see that Christianity is as much a religion, and a way of life, as say Hinduism and Buddhism. Different people approach Christianity from the way that they as individuals resonate towards the doctrine, through their own experiences in dealing with God/Christ.

No two Christians will have the exact same view of God.
If you seek evidence for truth then the only evidence you find is that you are not in truth as the the very truth of seeking evidence relays a truth that the truth you are seeking is still being searched for.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Belief in the Holy Spirit as an indwelling force of inspiration is a truth relative to your experience and cannot be considered "absolute" truth without some kind of evidence to back it up.

Therefore Christianity is in fact, just like every other religion. The only difference is you believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit, instead of believing in say Vishnu and his Avatar Krishna... or in Odin and his son Baldr, or in Osiris and his son Horus.

Or Buddha, and his son Rahula.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the belief, but surely you have the sense to see that Christianity is as much a religion, and a way of life, as say Hinduism and Buddhism. Different people approach Christianity from the way that they as individuals resonate towards the doctrine, through their own experiences in dealing with God/Christ.

No two Christians will have the exact same view of God.

Howeveer it is a truth that makes Christianity unique and superior to other religions.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I agree! It's completely absurd.
This is why the fact that it's true is such a shame.

It isn't true. Paul is the beginning of the fulfillment of Christainity as Jesus taught it.

Christians have not become Paulists or Augustinians but that does not mean that we don't have respect for those who have had the Holy Spirit in their lives. As Paul says Apollo (another teacher in Christianity) watered after Paul had planted. It is never about who did what but about what the Holy Spirit is doing.
 

Vasiel

The Seeker
Howeveer it is a truth that makes Christianity unique and superior to other religions.

I absolutely disagree with you on this point. Just because you think the truth in Christianity is "superior" to other beliefs doesn't actually mean that it is superior. The truths expressed in any religion are generally relative and I am always careful not to apply the term "absolute" to any belief system.

Because most religions hold the same moral values. Cut out the crazy stories and the same... bottom-line, common sense prevails throughout all beliefs. You resonate to Christianity because it gives you something, and the system fits who you are as an individual.

As a Buddhist I feel that Buddha's teachings are the path that resonates with me as an individual. The Buddha's teachings aren't absolute truth either. The Four Noble Truths, are guidelines that hold meaning to me, and make sense according to my own relative experience.

Buddha and Christ are equal... their teachings offer us guidelines we can apply to our lives. No teaching is "superior".
 

ErikErik

Member
Why should Christianity have to change? If it was Good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us. It is not stuck in the past. The problem is these false religious groups who have added on to the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ. Then there's the liberal pastors preaching a watered down Christianity.

Thank God for His faithful remnant.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I believe if we follow Jesus and his teachings we will be fine.

Paul is the problem. Let's stick to the words of people who actually knew Jesus and what they said.

Too many Christians have faith in Paul and trust he did not lie IMO.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I believe if we follow Jesus and his teachings we will be fine.

Paul is the problem. Let's stick to the words of people who actually knew Jesus and what they said.

Too many Christians have faith in Paul and trust he did not lie IMO.

But we don't know that any of the material is actually from people that knew Iesous.

Far too many Greek ideas found their way into the "new" religion's texts.
 
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