Christianity verses Islam

[Villager]

Believe? As in the historical sense?

In the usual sense. Muhammad said that Jesus existed. He even talked about his mother, rather fondly, as it happens, like a Catholic.

 

[Bismillah]

In the usual sense. Muhammad said that Jesus existed. He even talked about his mother, rather fondly, as it happens, like a Catholic.

They are atheist, they don't believe the Prophet.

I'm surprised that you seem to be criticising that someone talks fondly of Prophet Isa's mother, it is one thing that I respect Catholics for.

 

[Villager]

Are they wrong? Did Jesus exist?

 

[Bismillah]

Of course I believe Prophet Isa existed.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Assalamualaikum. Oh this is too easy.

Let's start from the beginning. The first question about religion is about the concept of God.

Islamic concept of God: One True God with no associate of any sort.
Agree or disagree? At least one understands Islamic point of view.

Christian concept of God: Simultaneously three and one. One god but three persons. Not parts and not three different persons as they are in fact the same but not the same either. etc. etc. Usually Christians conclude this explanation with "it's somewhat of a mystery".
Understanding this concept is such a mystery that debating it becomes even more of a mystery.

Who wants more?

 

[Villager]

One of the things I've heard about Islam is that Mohammed (peace be upon him) went into a cave all by himself and claims to have heard the angel Gabriel dictate the word of God to him.

So what are the options?

a) Muhammad took dictation from Gabriel;

b) Muhammad took dictation from an evil angel who claimed to be Gabriel;

c) Muhammad read about Gabriel in the Bible, and wrote the Qur'an himself.

Which of these is the most likely?

 

[Bismillah]

Considering that the Prophet was an unlettered man never known to be a poet like his cousin Abu Sufyan, it would seem fantastical to imagine he dictated the Qur'an himself.

 

[Villager]

Islamic concept of God: One True God with no associate of any sort.

The Christian view from 600 years earlier.

 

[Villager]

an unlettered man

Unlikely, for a merchant. Though of course he could have dictated it himself.

 

[Bismillah]

The Christian view from 600 years earlier.

Not after the Council of Nicea

Unlikely, for a merchant. Though of course he could have dictated it himself.

Actually Mecca, a merchant town, was largely illiterate society based on the oral tradition. I know you don't speak Arabic and I know you haven't studied the structure and etymology of the words used in the Qur'an that it would be pointless trying to discuss its impact on Arab society. Obviously a man who had never revealed himself to be a poet could have been the origin of the most widely celebrated literary work in a society obsessed with poetry.

 

[Villager]

Not after the Council of Nicea

That was pagan.

the oral tradition

Quite. Far more reliable than a single book that could be dictated to a hired scribe.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Assalamualaikum. Oh this is too easy.

Let's start from the beginning. The first question about religion is about the concept of God.

Islamic concept of God: One True God with no associate of any sort.
Agree or disagree? At least one understands Islamic point of view.

Christian concept of God: Simultaneously three and one. One god but three persons. Not parts and not three different persons as they are in fact the same but not the same either. etc. etc. Usually Christians conclude this explanation with "it's somewhat of a mystery".
Understanding this concept is such a mystery that debating it becomes even more of a mystery.

Who wants more?

I specified in the OP that this was not about doctrinal issues. This was about the evidence that supports believing in those doctrines. Muslims have Mohammed who came out of a cave claiming to have heard an angel. He then expected to just take him at his word. The story of Jesus, the version Christians believe in that is, had hundreds of eyewitnesses to confirm it.

 

[Photonic]

I've met countless atheists asserting that Jesus was never a historical figure, does Photonic speak for them?

Might as well say Muhammad was not real, it amounts to the same thing in the eyes of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Also note that you, being a muslim, are REQUIRED to believe in Jesus. Do you doubt your own prophet?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Christian concept of God: Simultaneously three and one. One god but three persons. Not parts and not three different persons as they are in fact the same but not the same either. etc. etc. Usually Christians conclude this explanation with "it's somewhat of a mystery".
Understanding this concept is such a mystery that debating it becomes even more of a mystery.

Who wants more?

Not really.It just takes time looking into what the doctrine actually says. Something that many people seem not willing to do before they talk trash on the concept.

 

[outhouse]

That was pagan.

Quite. Far more reliable than a single book that could be dictated to a hired scribe.

it was pagan ??? do you have a clue about the history you speak?

 

[outhouse]

Not really.It just takes time looking into what the doctrine actually says. Something that many people seem not willing to do before they talk trash on the concept.

try telling a small christian child about the trinity and even they cant swallow it. when I was a child I said what!!!! ???? that makesno sense at all and was the start to my atheistic knowledge.

The trinity isnt even followed today by many faiths.


If on elooks into the history it raises more questions when one see's a roman emporer [Constantine] influenced the decision of all the bishops to define the divinity of jesus.

 

[outhouse]

So what are the options?

a) Muhammad took dictation from Gabriel;

b) Muhammad took dictation from an evil angel who claimed to be Gabriel;

c) Muhammad read about Gabriel in the Bible, and wrote the Qur'an himself.

Which of these is the most likely?

I have to agree on this one.

Im a follower of K.I.S.S.

 

[idav]

Considering that the Prophet was an unlettered man never known to be a poet like his cousin Abu Sufyan, it would seem fantastical to imagine he dictated the Qur'an himself.

I think he had help from his wife.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

In view of the replies (actually sorry for not reading the OP carefully):

Evidence for the truth of Islam:
Prophecies contained in the Holy Book of Islam, The Quran, that continue to be fulfilled to this day. Even in this age and for all time to come this Holy Book continues to unveil the unseen.

The book here Unveiling of the 'Unseen' by the Quran—A Historic Perspective contains several examples of which I shall quote one where Quran and Bible disagree:

And We brought the children of Israel across the sea; and Pharaoh and his hosts pursued them wrongfully and aggressively, till, when the calamity of drowning overtook him, he said, 'I believe that there is no God but He in Whom the children of Israel believe, and I am of those who submit to Him.'

What! Now! While thou wast disobedient before this and wast of those who create disorder.

So this day We will save thee in thy body alone that thou mayest be a Sign to those who come after thee. And surely, many of mankind are heedless of Our Signs. [10:91-93]

It should be especially noted here that contrary to this Quranic statement, the Biblical account does not as much as hint at the possibility of the retrieval of Pharaoh's body: '... not so much as one of them remained.'

Hence, till the time the Quran mentions the saving of Pharaoh's body with the purpose that the posterity may learn their lesson from it, no human source of history had ever referred to it.
...
It was many centuries after the revelation of the Quran that the earth began to throw up its secrets. The mummified bodies of all the Pharaohs which can claim to be the Pharaohs of the time of Mosesas have been retrieved.

Whether it was Rameses II or another Pharaoh is a question still debated, but the fact that one of the mummies recovered from the Valley of the Kings is that of the Pharaoh who confronted Moses is no longer debatable. The only conclusion therefore, one is left to draw, is that against the verdict of the entire world history it is the verdict of the Quranic revelation alone which is proved correct: So this day We will save thee in thy body alone… . This is the verdict of the Quran which has now become the verdict of world history.

There were several examples of prophecies of miracles in the immediate and distant future of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

People should note Jesus' miracles are very exaggerated and unreliable and though I believe Jesus to be a man of miracles but his miracles were no match to that of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

Who wants more?

 

[JacobEzra.]

People should note Jesus' miracles are very exaggerated and unreliable and though I believe Jesus to be a man of miracles but his miracles were no match to that of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

Who wants more?

Thats funny. Not only did Jesus commit many miracles, and prophecy, his followers have been witnesses to miracles and prophecies for centuries.

Something you don't hear about from Muslims