Christianity vs. Islam

[Wandering Monk]

The longer I live, the more this seems to be true: We create God in our own image (our psyche.)

 

[whirlingmerc]

The kind of post that comes up. Awesome.


Then why does the Bible confine death to a son of a sinner?

It doesn't death came to Jesus who was not a sinner
and that is why Jesus could die for others

 

[whirlingmerc]

Or more appropriately for Christians, striving to be like Christ on the cross can lead to an understanding our relationship to God. Christ is a symbol for something in ourselves, and other religions have their symbols for this, including Muslims.

Although Jesus was more than a symbol, really living, really dying for sins, really rising.\

Rising shows 'the check cleared' as far as paying for sins

 

[Sand Dancer]

I am a Christian and I have on occasion read parts of the Quran. This is the major difference between the God of the Quran (Allah) and the God of the Bible and it is significant. In the Bible, God first loved us; unconditionally. No matter what we do He still loves us. In the Quran, Allah’s love is conditional upon obedience. Obey first, then He will love you. Anyone have any thoughts?

I wouldn't call it unconditional when the condition to stay out of hell is belief in Jesus.

 

[AJustA]

jesus is not dead , his come back , jesus is just a human , his not your creator , who build you and this world , belive me plz

god never comes down as a human
jesus are just a prophet .

 

[AJustA]

Hi and welcome to RF. Looks like you are having fun here already.

hi to you , yes im always are happy and fun cuz im muslim and im going to haven so easily .

 

[ChristineM]

hi to you , yes im always are happy and fun cuz im muslim and im going to haven so easily .

'tiz you belief and you are welcome to it... Enjoy

 

[Firemorphic]

I am a Christian and I have on occasion read parts of the Quran. This is the major difference between the God of the Quran (Allah) and the God of the Bible and it is significant. In the Bible, God first loved us; unconditionally. No matter what we do He still loves us. In the Quran, Allah’s love is conditional upon obedience. Obey first, then He will love you. Anyone have any thoughts?

The core of Christian doctrine is "God made man", aka the incarnation of the logos as the historical figure of Jesus Christ. This is obviously an anthropomorphism of God, take it or leave it. The centerpiece and raison d'être of Christianity is in the resurrection of Jesus, the idea that his death liberated humanity from it's primordial crutches (re: the fall and "original sin").

The core of Islamic doctrine is the all-encompassing Unity of God. God does not incarnate but all things are the expression of God and a reflection of God's knowledge. Islam is opposed to anthropomorphism because anthropomorphism does not even begin to grasp at God, in the Islamic view God is beyond any conceptualization. As Surah 16:3 states "Highly exalted is he above all they associate with him". (this includes taking "he" and "him" literally)
In the Islamic view this does not make for a dry relation of the worshiper with God but rather an ocean of knowledge. Attaining to Ihsan (perfection, gnosis) the very idea of separation between worshiper and God dissolves in some sense because our very temporality is illusory within God's absolute-reality. All of this can be found right there in Surah Ikhlas.

As Prophet Muhammad said in a very beautiful Hadith:

Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) said:
‘Allah, Mighty and Exalted, says,
‘When a servant’s predominant state is preoccupation with Me then I make
the object of his desire My remembrance and place his pleasure therein. And
when I make My remembrance the object of his desire and place his
pleasure therein, he becomes infatuated with Me and I with him. And when
he becomes infatuated with Me and I with him, I remove all veils between
Me and him, and make this state predominate over him where he is never
again negligent even when other people are.’

 

[Shad]

So why commit genocide by killing the entire human and animal population except a buddy and said buddies family and about 18 million animals?
Why sodom and gomorrah?
Why condone conquest, capture and killing, theft, slavery and rape if those who do not worship the christian/jewish version of the abrahamic god.

Doesn't sound do unconditional to me. In fact the condition is plain to see, worship me or die

When I was a Christian the explanation was a version of tough love or an act does not cause one to stop loving a person. Think of people that love someone they knew committed a crime and was convicted. Obviously that explanation did work with me for very long

 

[Milton Platt]

I am a Christian and I have on occasion read parts of the Quran. This is the major difference between the God of the Quran (Allah) and the God of the Bible and it is significant. In the Bible, God first loved us; unconditionally. No matter what we do He still loves us. In the Quran, Allah’s love is conditional upon obedience. Obey first, then He will love you. Anyone have any thoughts?[/QUOTE

He loved us by creating us with a fallible nature and then set up specific conditions he knew in advance would cause a wrong decision and then condemned us all for a decision he knew from the beginning would happen even though only two people (and not the entire human race) made that decision which he knew in advance they would make under under these circumstances. Some love......

But all that aside, you are just comparing one myth with another.

 

[ChristineM]

When I was a Christian the explanation was a version of tough love or an act does not cause one to stop loving a person. Think of people that love someone they knew committed a crime and was convicted. Obviously that explanation did work with me for very long

Oh that makes genocide, mass murderer, theft, rape, sex slavery all good then,

It makes a book that many take literally into a dangerous and unregulated teaching tool and wrapon

 

[Shad]

Well... ya know... In the Qu'ran... Allah is Mericful. From the very beginning... the very first verse... Allah is "entirely merciful".

maybe that's not what you would call love. But I think Mercy is far more useful than Love. Love can be exploited. Granted that's not the sort of Love you are talking about, but... for the record...

This is the the very begining of how Allah is defined in the Qu'ran:

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. (link)

But I don't blame you for not knowing this. It took me 40+ years to learn this simple rule about Islam:

Don't believe the hype.

Allah is also called Just. All merciful and all justi are incompatible.

 

[sooda]

Where? When? Butchery and enslavement should never be described as "positively enlightened." Sure, the Ottoman empire may be let jews and Christians practice, but it came at a cost. "Try these things first but if they don't work then destroy them all" is atrocious. How enlightened is it, really, to give a warning and extension of peace if they convert but destroy them if they don't?

According to the Koran it is forbidden to kill women, children, the elderly, non-combatants and livestock. It is also forbidden to destroy crops, trees and water sources. There are other rules about defensive war and being willing to negotiate a truce.

 

[Firemorphic]

One good quote I heard once is that "Christianity is God-individualized and Man-Universalized".
This is of course a completely different view to Islam with God's Absoluteness being fully emphasized in the more core of doctrines, Tawhid (Unity of God). God-as-reality-itself (al-Haqq) rather than some kind of image, symbol or even idea. And of course, as-Samad.

The best way to see it is that Christianity deals with individuality whereas Islam deals with Ontology. This also explains why the Christian view is more similar to the bhakti view in Hinduism where an object of veneration is taken as the path towards realization, whereas the Islamic view is closer to a Buddhist (funny enough) in that the negations of forms combined with a system of way/path (Sirat al-Mustaqim) being the entry point to realization, through balance of abstinence and indulgence.

 

[Shad]

Oh that makes genocide, mass murderer, theft, rape, sex slavery all good then

To keep it short the concept of God makes it impossible for God to order an evil for the sake of evil. Everything is done for a good purpose be it one we can see now or later. Of course it is all post-hoc rationalizations used to excuse people of their own conduct because God told them to in my view.

If I remember correctly after the Holocaust there were some Jews that believed the Holocaust was punishment by God against Jews. Hitler was merely a tool nor merely evil by his own accord. Ergo as per the above point even when something horrible is inflicted upon an individual they can convince themselves that God willed it to happen. They seek to blame themselves rather than question a belief system.

It makes a book that many take literally into a dangerous and unregulated teaching tool and wrapon

Yup especially when the rationalization are told to children before they are capable of handing the subject. IE Told what to think nor how to think.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

According to the Koran it is forbidden to kill women, children, the elderly, non-combatants and livestock. It is also forbidden to destroy crops, trees and water sources. There are other rules about defensive war and being willing to negotiate a truce.

And also times to butcher, ambush, and enslave. And it's not new. Such as the problem with 18th century Muslim pirates who were, as they believed their religious right, taking slaves from vessels they raided.

 

[sooda]

And also times to butcher, ambush, and enslave. And it's not new. Such as the problem with 18th century Muslim pirates who were, as they believed their religious right, taking slaves from vessels they raided.

The Barbary pirates weren't all Muslims.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Barbary pirates weren't all Muslims.

True. But the reason the final draft of the treaty of tripoli included the bit is America not being founded on Christian principles is to make it clear to the "Musslemen" that the US possess no inherent hostility towards them or any "Mehomitan country" over religious differences.

 

[sooda]

True. But the reason the final draft of the treaty of tripoli included the bit is America not being founded on Christian principles is to make it clear to the "Muslemen" that the US possess no inherent hostility towards them over religious differences.

Most of them were Europeans (Christians) who had operated on letters of marque before going rogue and settling in ports along the coast of Libya.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most of them were Europeans (Christians) who had operated on letters of marque before going rogue and settling in ports along the coast of Libya.

Some of them where. But the evidence we have makes it clear these were largely Muslim ships, acting for a Muslim nation.