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christianity was wrong before

waitasec

Veteran Member
P

Also do take my statement in context. You and many others twist things. The to a lesser extent was about the teachings on this matter.

not only this matter, there are plenty more...

Jesus taught that the people who would go to heaven (be saved) must be as little children (Matt. 18:4-5; 19:14; Mark 9:36-37; 10:14-15; Luke 18:15-17), while Paul wrote that maturity demands us to forsake the things of childhood (I Cor 13:11).

or what about

Romans 3:28 compared to jesus teachings Jesus described in Matt. 25:31-45 the final judgment as being based solely and entirely on behavioral responses to internalized compassion. And Jesus makes it very clear that those who DO express universal compassion in behavioral action WILL BE SAVED, and those who do not will NOT be saved. Period. There is no other qualification.

Paul vs. Jesus -- disagreement and contradictions between the Christian founders
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
not only this matter, there are plenty more...

Jesus taught that the people who would go to heaven (be saved) must be as little children (Matt. 18:4-5; 19:14; Mark 9:36-37; 10:14-15; Luke 18:15-17), while Paul wrote that maturity demands us to forsake the things of childhood (I Cor 13:11).

or what about

Romans 3:28 compared to jesus teachings Jesus described in Matt. 25:31-45 the final judgment as being based solely and entirely on behavioral responses to internalized compassion. And Jesus makes it very clear that those who DO express universal compassion in behavioral action WILL BE SAVED, and those who do not will NOT be saved. Period. There is no other qualification.

Paul vs. Jesus -- disagreement and contradictions between the Christian founders

Go on and put Matt 18:6 in there: 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Context is the issue here.

Matt. 18:4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.

19:14Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

Mark 9:36He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37“Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”

10:14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Luke 18:15People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Please consider Christ was speaking of purity of heart not state of mind. Consider the audience and context as well as time frame.

And now Paul:
1 Cor 12:27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tonguesd? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desiree the greater gifts.
Love
And now I will show you the most excellent way.


13:1If I speak in the tonguesa of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,b but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


Paul was speaking of state of mind and there is a big difference. Chapter and verse were separated for the benefit of all only to allow reference. One first must consider the Bible as a whole and then looking at scripture consider the setting (where and when), the audience (who was being spoken to), the type of book (history, poetry, law, prophecy...........) and then you can only begin to understand. Years and lifetimes have been spent in study by people smarter than us.


First and foremost you must open up your heart as an infant suckling a mother putting all faith in God just as the infant has in the mother and then you must clear all childish notions such as greed, jealously, lust......... from your mind so as not to be distracted to truly understand this great Book that God has sent us.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
I am feeding nothing I am simply telling the truth. God created the universe and all that is therefore you may not worship God but God is there none the less. You may worship a tree but that does not change the fact that there is only one true God and by default he is your God. He will be the final judge of all mankind and you are included.
 
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Jacksnyte

Reverend
Not to you. To me they must be. Do you have to believe as I do? No; but I can not stop because I have seen my path.

No one is saying you shouldn't believe as you do, they are saying that belief does not equal fact. This doesn't necessarily invalidate your belief, it simply means that it is your own personal paradigm, and to insist that your subjective belief is factual for someone else is to say that their paradigm is invalid.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
No one is saying you shouldn't believe as you do, they are saying that belief does not equal fact. This doesn't necessarily invalidate your belief, it simply means that it is your own personal paradigm, and to insist that your subjective belief is factual for someone else is to say that their paradigm is invalid.

We all must agree to disagree on many fronts. If something concerning my faith is brought up such as the topic of this thread then I have every right to stand my ground. I did not go out and start a thread about the beliefs of someone else. This thread is about Christianity therefore it is about what Christians believe not Jewish, Muslim or any other faith believes.

The title and opening post of the thread are an attack of sorts on Christians. Well not so much and attack as questioning the faith.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Paul was speaking of state of mind and there is a big difference. Chapter and verse were separated for the benefit of all only to allow reference. One first must consider the Bible as a whole and then looking at scripture consider the setting (where and when), the audience (who was being spoken to), the type of book (history, poetry, law, prophecy...........) and then you can only begin to understand. Years and lifetimes have been spent in study by people smarter than us.


First and foremost you must open up your heart as an infant suckling a mother putting all faith in God just as the infant has in the mother and then you must clear all childish notions such as greed, jealously, lust......... from your mind so as not to be distracted to truly understand this great Book that God has sent us.

this state of mind is to be what, easily manipulated?
a loving parent guidance is straight forward without any riddles to solve...

if you consider integrity to be evil then the ideology of tyranny fits your principles
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
Could you expand on this thought?

integrity;
freedom from corrupting influence or motive
entire correspondence with an original condition; purity.


tyranny;
governed by an absolute ruler; hence, arbitrary or despotic exercise of power; exercise of power over subjects... not requisite for the purposes of government...

government;
person or persons authorized to administer the laws

authorized by whom?
the people.

the problem is, we are not fundamentally evil. we are fundamentally good and evil. it is not so one sided as the bible says. children are selfish but they are also giving and loving. children are not born with a predisposition of prejudice, those are taught. children are honest and open... children are a wonderful example of integrity...
and sometimes they say things that are better left unsaid. but nonetheless, they are following their purity...and what is this purity... they know they don't know...they question and doubt things that are questionable...and they seek out the truth.

life, none of us knows what it is. no one can KNOW. you have your faith. good for you, if that is what gets you from drinking or taking drugs or fu**ing up your life good for you. just don't think your religious beliefs trump my inalienable rights...

your bible, if you haven't noticed, is a book that perpetuates the idea that we are fundamentally evil and that no good can come from us. if that were the case then what moral act can a believer in god do that a non-believer can't?
so far, believers try to control non-believers because they think they are morally superior...the principle of tyranny.

since i am here on a religious forum debating about religion i am merely expressing my opinion, which goes without saying. is the ideology of tyranny problematic to you? if it is, why?
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
integrity;
freedom from corrupting influence or motive
entire correspondence with an original condition; purity.


tyranny;
governed by an absolute ruler; hence, arbitrary or despotic exercise of power; exercise of power over subjects... not requisite for the purposes of government...

government;
person or persons authorized to administer the laws

authorized by whom?
the people.

the problem is, we are not fundamentally evil. we are fundamentally good and evil. it is not so one sided as the bible says. children are selfish but they are also giving and loving. children are not born with a predisposition of prejudice, those are taught. children are honest and open... children are a wonderful example of integrity...
and sometimes they say things that are better left unsaid. but nonetheless, they are following their purity...and what is this purity... they know they don't know...they question and doubt things that are questionable...and they seek out the truth.

life, none of us knows what it is. no one can KNOW. you have your faith. good for you, if that is what gets you from drinking or taking drugs or fu**ing up your life good for you. just don't think your religious beliefs trump my inalienable rights...

your bible, if you haven't noticed, is a book that perpetuates the idea that we are fundamentally evil and that no good can come from us. if that were the case then what moral act can a believer in god do that a non-believer can't?
so far, believers try to control non-believers because they think they are morally superior...the principle of tyranny.

since i am here on a religious forum debating about religion i am merely expressing my opinion, which goes without saying. is the ideology of tyranny problematic to you? if it is, why?

Crap that is deep and well worded.

I found the question: what moral act can a believer in god do that a non-believer can't? And the answer is none. A believer and a non believer are on a level playing field. Those who do not believe in God can be just as good or better than a believer.

Many supposed believers are the nastiest people you will ever meet.

It may sound funny but without actually having a conversation with someone you can only really gather one thing from observation. Some people do things that are not in line with Christian teachings. These people could be in Church every Sunday or they may never set foot in a Church.

On the opposite end of the spectrum many secular groups set a good example of what Christians should be.
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
Crap that is deep and well worded.

I found the question: what moral act can a believer in god do that a non-believer can't? And the answer is none. A believer and a non believer are on a level playing field. Those who do not believe in God can be just as good or better than a believer.

Many supposed believers are the nastiest people you will ever meet.

It may sound funny but without actually having a conversation with someone you can only really gather one thing from observation. Some people do things that are not in line with Christian teachings. These people could be in Church every Sunday or they may never set foot in a Church.

On the opposite end of the spectrum many secular groups set a good example of what Christians should be.

whew...i thought this may go in the wrong direction.
:woohoo:

may the force be with you :D
 

Blackheart

Active Member
so the christians were wrong about Galileo and carried out the inquisition,etc etc...what makes you think christianity is correct in its teachings??
Please show me where the bible says the world is flat...Or that there should be an inquisition by a bunch of self righteous nutters. When you realise that you cant find it then maybe youll realise that it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Its not, if it was, everyone would follow it.
On the contrary. The bible explains that most people wont follow.
 

BIG D

Member
Please show me where the bible says the world is flat...Or that there should be an inquisition by a bunch of self righteous nutters. When you realise that you cant find it then maybe youll realise that it has nothing to do with Christianity.


On the contrary. The bible explains that most people wont follow.
yes or no, did not christians MURDER during the Inquisition????---YES, they were CHRISTIANS
 
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