Christianity

[Jimmy]

Jesus will return? Hmm….. Gee, I wonder how that will happen.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

First and foremost, I believe that Argumentum ad populum is a weak argument for defending the popularity of Christianity or the veracity of its tenets, because the same argument could also be used to defend Islam, which is the second largest religion in the world (source) and also the fastest-growing religion as well (source). Second, a divine savior dying to save humanity and being resurrected from the dead was actually a common theme in Greek mythology and other ancient pagan religions. As I explained in my response to the OP's other Christianity-related thread, "The Return of Christ," if we replace the name of Jesus with Attis (the Phrygian-Greek god of vegetation), we will see a strikingly familiar story of a divine savior similar to that of Jesus, except the mythical stories about Attis are dated 1250 BCE, which predates both Christianity and the Bible (source). In fact, we could replace the name Jesus with any of the other godlike figures discussed in the following articles. In these articles, there are examples of even more similar myths that parallel the stories of Jesus' virgin birth, performing supernatural miracles, walking on water, miraculously healing the sick, and raising the dead, as well as the stories about his alleged crucifixion, death, and resurrection. Furthermore, these stories of other godlike saviors also predate Christianity and the Bible.

10 Christ-Like Figures that predate Jesus

The Truth About Mythological Figures Similar To Jesus

Other Gods That Rose From the Dead in Spring Before Jesus Christ

After reading about Jesus in comparative mythology, I don't think his savior story is any more true and compelling than that of the Greek god Attis or any of the other pagan stories I've read. As I said in the OP's other thread (post #242), I believe that most of the biblical stories about Jesus are plagiarized pagan myths (as evidenced in the articles), demonstrating that these stories are not unique and that paganism had a substantial impact on Christianity.

I think it's yet another example of how paganism has had a significant impact on Christianity. In this article, "Mythic Origins of Christianity and How It's Similar to Paganism," there are other examples of how Christianity parallels pagan religions that predate it. More examples can also be found in this article: "The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence." I think it's obvious that paganism also had an impact on Christmas (see here) and Easter (see here).

Despite Christians' claims that the Bible was inspired by God and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world, I believe these other stories prove that neither the stories about Jesus nor Christianity are as unique as Christians claim. In my opinion, the stories about Jesus were greatly embellished for effect, either copied and adapted from Greek mythology and other ancient pagan religions that his followers were aware of at the time, or stories based on hearsay that became more elaborate as they spread. Do you know how telling a story to a large group of people can lead to significant changes in the original story over time? This is because some people may forget what was said, leading them to either invent their own narratives to fill in the gaps or embellish the original story. I believe this could be the reason why the stories of Jesus vastly spread from region to region and that these stories about him were greatly embellished to make him appear to be godlike and even the son of the Abrahamic God. Given all of these facts disputing the authenticity of Christianity, I don't believe that the stories of Jesus are any more credible or believable than all the other savior stories from ancient pagan religions.

 

[I Am Hugh]

You really think people from all over the world would spread Christianity and preach things like Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead if it weren’t true? Don’t tell me it’s about money because that’s ridiculous. These are pretty far fetched ideas if you ask me. Do you think people would really spread these far-fetched ideas if they weren’t true? Think about it. It’s so obvious. There is truth in it imo. One just has to know how to see it.

If you replaced money - debt based economy, fractional reserve banking, all monetary exchange - with something not obsolete as money is, then all organized religion and politics would evaporate overnight. But you are right, it isn't just about money. It's power, ideology, mythology, and ego. And as far as truth and illusion goes the biggest red flag for me for something being untrue, inaccurate, deceptive - is that the masses believe it. That is almost always a sure indication that something isn't true. Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, Catholicism, Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, politics, economy, philosophy and science for example.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You really think people from all over the world would spread Christianity and preach things like Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead if it weren’t true? Don’t tell me it’s about money because that’s ridiculous. These are pretty far fetched ideas if you ask me. Do you think people would really spread these far-fetched ideas if they weren’t true? Think about it. It’s so obvious. There is truth in it imo. One just has to know how to see it.

People often share stories and ideas that aren't true.

Ever play the telephone game?

 

[SalixIncendium]

All kinds of people believe all kinds of things. Some people even quit their jobs and run up credit cards because they are absolutely certain the end times will be on a specific date like what happened on May 21 2011 when the prediction by herald camping led to the largest advertisement campaign in the history of humankind

What you are appealing to is argumentum ad populum. It's a logical fallacy. It's bad reasoning. Just because lots of people believe something doesn't make that thing true

You’ve missed the point unfortunately.

This is what you said. What am I missing?

@King Phenomenon ~ You ignored @Soandso's question here. I, too, am interested in knowing what you feel his is missing.

If you are going to accuse someone of missing the point, you should either clarify your point or concede that the accusation was unfounded and acknowledge his point.

 

[SalixIncendium]

A quick Google search suggests Christianity is the SIXTH fastest growing religion. So, by your logic, other religions are “truer.”

I don't see how rate of growth is relevant here with regard to truth. Your conclusion is a misrepresentation of what the OP is saying.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Think about it.

Think about it.

Think about it.

I'm not sure directing people to do this is necessary when you try to make a point, and it comes across as condescending.

It also triggers the intro to "Rearranged" by Limp Bizkit in my head each time you post it.
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[Glaurung]

You really think people from all over the world would spread Christianity and preach things like Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead if it weren’t true? Don’t tell me it’s about money because that’s ridiculous. These are pretty far fetched ideas if you ask me. Do you think people would really spread these far-fetched ideas if they weren’t true? Think about it. It’s so obvious. There is truth in it imo. One just has to know how to see it.

You could make a faith-based case that the development and growth of Christianity had divine intervention as its cause. God knew what He has doing when He took birth in first century Judea. Yet, stand-alone, your argument is not convincing. That Christianity succeeded as a religion does not make its claims true. Islam also succeeded in spreading itself beyond its homeland. But that does not make the claims of Islam true.

 

[PearlSeeker]

“Truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces.” (Paul Claudel)

 

[Jimmy]

A ton of people on here has told me that truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces. This thread isn’t about that. It’s about the fact that many people believe something that one might consider to be delusional. Seems a bit odd don’t you think?

 

[PearlSeeker]

A ton of people on here has told me that truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces. This thread isn’t about that. It’s about the fact that many people believe something that one might consider to be delusional. Seems a bit odd don’t you think?

As odd as seeing Elvis.

 

[Jimmy]

As odd as seeing Elvis.

How many? 4 billion people believe that Jesus will return and that Jesus raises the dead and that they will see their loved ones again in heaven after they die. These things sound like a mental illness yet 4 billion people believe it. What does that tell you?

 

[Soandso]

A ton of people on here has told me that truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces. This thread isn’t about that. It’s about the fact that many people believe something that one might consider to be delusional. Seems a bit odd don’t you think?

What's odd about it? History is full of examples of a majority of people believing something is true while in reality it turns out to be false. What are you trying to suggest if not argumentum ad populum?

 

[Jimmy]

@King Phenomenon ~ You ignored @Soandso's question here. I, too, am interested in knowing what you feel his is missing.

If you are going to accuse someone of missing the point, you should either clarify your point or concede that the accusation was unfounded and acknowledge his point.

The point? The point was made and is clear in my opening statement. No further explanation would help. FYI, when somebody says you missed the point that’s exactly what it means. There’s no hidden point that needs to be addressed.

 

[Ajax]

The point? The point was made and is clear in my opening statement. No further explanation would help. FYI, when somebody says you missed the point that’s exactly what it means. There’s no hidden point that needs to be addressed.

Your point is the following.."There is truth in it (Christianity) imo. One just has to know how to see it."
You never explained how one knows how to see it.
Plus you imply that Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead, are true in the OP, whilst later you deny them. Do you finally believe in Jesus comeback and the resurrection, or not?
Your whole presence here and your lack of explanations does not make much sense to me. Neither your signature....As far as I can understand, you believe that Jesus lives on earth, dies and is resurrected again, every few years. Am I correct?

 

[Jimmy]

Your point is the following.."There is truth in it (Christianity) imo. One just has to know how to see it."
You never explained how one knows how to see it.
Plus you imply that Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead, are true in the OP, whilst later you deny them. Do you finally believe in Jesus comeback and the resurrection, or not?
Your whole presence here and your lack of explanations does not make much sense to me. Neither your signature....As far as I can understand, you believe that Jesus lives on earth, dies and is resurrected again, every few years. Am I correct?

I never denied it.

You are correct but I don’t call him Jesus. In the real world I do, but on here I tell people what I truly believe. The Jesus story is very similar to my true beliefs.

 

[Ajax]

I never denied it.

You are correct but I don’t call him Jesus. In the real world I do, but on here I tell people what I truly believe. The Jesus story is very similar to my true beliefs.

What do you call him here?

 

[Soandso]

The point? The point was made and is clear in my opening statement. No further explanation would help. FYI, when somebody says you missed the point that’s exactly what it means. There’s no hidden point that needs to be addressed.

well, let's see

You really think people from all over the world would spread Christianity and preach things like Jesus coming back and the resurrection of the dead if it weren’t true?

Right here you are raising a rhetorical question that suggests that because people all over the world preach about Christianity, it's true. This is argumentum ad populum

Don’t tell me it’s about money because that’s ridiculous.

Right here you are removing money as a convincing factor for why Christianity is true, so this isn't a factor in your argument (though this is in fact arguable since money and influence definitely did shape the spread of Christianity into what we see today in a very central way)

These are pretty far fetched ideas if you ask me. Do you think people would really spread these far-fetched ideas if they weren’t true?

Right here you are asking another rhetorical question but this time suggesting Christianity has far fetched ideas that seem ridiculous, so you are removing the ideas Christianity preaches as a factor for why Christianity is true

Think about it. It’s so obvious. There is truth in it imo. One just has to know how to see it.

Then here is a non-answer about how it's true because it's so obviously self evident if one just "knows how to see it," yet in just the previous statement you tried to argue that Christianity's ideas were unconvincing which removed that as a factor for why it's true, so how does that work? Seems contradictory. Is this the point you were talking about? "One just has to know how to see it" is an incomplete argument that risks begging the question

 

[Jimmy]

What do you call him here?

I don’t know his name. All I know is that he’s a man.

 

[Mock Turtle]

How many? 4 billion people believe that Jesus will return and that Jesus raises the dead and that they will see their loved ones again in heaven after they die. These things sound like a mental illness yet 4 billion people believe it. What does that tell you?

It tends to tell me that culture and education (or even indoctrination) are major factors as to what people will believe, and often depending upon where one is born.