Christians- How do you know Jesus and the Bible are true?

[Zwing]

It's about trusting in what it means to us…

Quite. As I said…

 

[YoursTrue]

The OP asks:
"How do you know Christ and the Bible are true?
What makes you so sure?"

So far, most of the answers have been subjective, irrelevant, or have not followed, logically. I am not seeing anything epistemically convincing, here. People seem to be proposing bad, post hoc rationalizations.

Part of the problem is that when a person answers positively about the truth of the Bible, many come in and bring up questions or objections that really cannot be answered with certainty or figuratively stamped with approval as legal certification. Because the Bible tells me in part how to live, I appreciate that and strive to listen.

 

[CG Didymus]

A number of reasons. A couple of big ones are the seductive idea (which seems a lie) of ultracorporeal life, and the even more seductive concept of having “the clean slate”, which is one of Christianity’s big selling-points. “Have all your sins washed away, and become a new man in Christ”, eh? (If only it were truly that easy.) As such, belief in Jesus, and that he was/is the “Christ” of St. Paul, is done out of slavish expedience to the foregoing causes.

Having your sins forgiven and being guaranteed a place in heaven is a pretty good offer. And all the person has to do is believe? Why not give it a try? Trouble is. the person only gets the reward if they believe it all and keep believing it. So, how do they know it's true? For most people it's probably listening to pastors and preachers and others that say it's true and have written books about why it can be trusted as being true.

But with all the strange things and events talked about in the Bible and NT, it makes it hard, if not impossible, for some of us to believe... In spite of such a great reward. But is any other religion, with their promises and beliefs and laws and moral codes, any more believable?

 

[Zwing]

Having your sins forgiven and being guaranteed a place in heaven is a pretty good offer…For most people it's probably listening to pastors and preachers and others that say it's true and have written books about why it can be trusted as being true.

Not a good offer if it is all bu——it!

This represented the original “crack” in the edifice of my theism. At one point in my life I was compelled to consider my Christian “faith” from the perspective of first principles: why did I believe that which I did. Upon asking myself this question, my answer to self was, “because the priests and nuns and my parents told me as a little boy with unformed critical thinking skills, that all of this was true, reliable and verified”. Once established as part of a belief system, these beliefs tend to be extremely “sticky”. How can we do such a horribly deluding thing to our little babies??

 

[Zwing]

But is any other religion, with their promises and beliefs and laws and moral codes, any more believable?

I think so. Nature religions, when divorced from any supernaturalism, might represent this, and non-dualist philosophies such as the non-theistic version of the Hindu Advaita Vedanta seem to show great promise and to reflect truths which have been suggested by theoretical physics.

 

[joelr]

Yes he is an apologist and can only repeat the evidence of the experts, and yes the peer review is on it's way it seems.
What does attempting to prove this find false look like?

For starters you are only using one source that is bias. They fail to point out important information.

Does attempting to prove this find false, look like this?

It looks like finding out all of the actual evidence.
1), the team has provided very little written or visual documentation to support their reading and interpretation of the tablet.
2)the team released a photo of the outside of the tablet , but they did not release any images of the scans that show the tablet’s inscribed interior.
3)the team has yet to publish the find or their analysis in a peer-reviewed journal,
4) This lack of any presentation of the supporting evidence for the team’s claims has raised the suspicions of many scholars.
5) noted epigrapher - “I would predict that almost all of the readings posited in the press conference will be vigorously contested, once scholars in the field of epigraphy are allowed to see the image. … I am far from convinced of their readings … especially since they have not even provided so much as a single good image!”
6) there were only 4 words
7)the team’s reading of the Mt. Ebal inscription could provide the earliest reference to the divine name Yahweh in ancient Israel, it would not be earliest reference to Yahweh ever found, as possible earlier occurrences have been found in Egypt and elsewhere.

This is true, there are possible mentions of Yahweh from Egypt, showing he may have also been an Egyptian deity.

Nothing here is remotely conclusive. It also could lend proof that Yahweh was taken from older religions.

 

[Brian2]

7)the team’s reading of the Mt. Ebal inscription could provide the earliest reference to the divine name Yahweh in ancient Israel, it would not be earliest reference to Yahweh ever found, as possible earlier occurrences have been found in Egypt and elsewhere.

This is true, there are possible mentions of Yahweh from Egypt, showing he may have also been an Egyptian deity.

Nothing here is remotely conclusive. It also could lend proof that Yahweh was taken from older religions.

Nothing is conclusive, we should wait for the peer reviewed article.
In the meantime something on the use of Yahweh in Egypt.

Exodus: The Name Yahweh in Egyptian Hieroglyphic Texts

The Shasu of Yahweh, mentioned in the topographical texts at Soleb and Amarah-West, were likely the Israelites, who by 1400 BC dwelt in the mountains of Canaan.

biblearchaeology.org

 

[joelr]

When one attacks the poster,

like when you attacked me last post? - "Strawman and argumentative"

it is a sure evidence that you are on shaky ground.

yes you are on shaky ground. But not because you attacked me, because you cannot provide evidence or defend your position or answer to the majority of my posts.

Absolutely. Knowing two languages, I fully understand that one can translate a sentence and be accurate yet totally wrong because they don't understand the culture and cultural applications.

So let me ask you a question on Psalm 22. What document are you referring to when comparing?

All Jewish Bibles and all historical scholars of the OT, as well as Rabbi who have studies Hebrew/OT since childhood.


Jewish Bible

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - Complete Jewish Bible

For the leader. Set to “Sunrise.” A psalm of David: My God! My God! Why have you abandoned me? Why so far from helping me, so far from my anguished cries? My God, by day I call to you, but you don’t answer; likewise at night, but I get no relief. Nevertheless, you are holy, enthroned on the...

www.biblegateway.com

Rabbi Tovia Singer, :29

Mark can be shown to be a fictional story in many many ways. So even if it did predict a future savior here it doesn't make Mark true, it means he was using this as a source to create his savior Passion. Mark used many different things, even Psalms but this did not say "peirced" until Christians re-interpreted it to be about Jesus.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The story tells us that Samuel did not choose Saul but God did.

Because Samuel thought it sounded better than “angry religious leader did it.” The plot makes way more sense if you realize that the whole story is about Samuel’s vindictiveness and bitterness after losing his authority.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

This is true, there are possible mentions of Yahweh from Egypt, showing he may have also been an Egyptian deity.

That would track. Rameses 2 worshiped Anat and She was not Egyptian.

 

[Brian2]

Because Samuel thought it sounded better than “angry religious leader did it.” The plot makes way more sense if you realize that the whole story is about Samuel’s vindictiveness and bitterness after losing his authority.

Why not just say you don't believe the story and prefer to make up your own version of what happened etc. ?

 

[Brian2]

All Jewish Bibles and all historical scholars of the OT, as well as Rabbi who have studies Hebrew/OT since childhood.


Jewish Bible

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - Complete Jewish Bible

For the leader. Set to “Sunrise.” A psalm of David: My God! My God! Why have you abandoned me? Why so far from helping me, so far from my anguished cries? My God, by day I call to you, but you don’t answer; likewise at night, but I get no relief. Nevertheless, you are holy, enthroned on the...

www.biblegateway.com

Rabbi Tovia Singer, :29

Mark can be shown to be a fictional story in many many ways. So even if it did predict a future savior here it doesn't make Mark true, it means he was using this as a source to create his savior Passion. Mark used many different things, even Psalms but this did not say "peirced" until Christians re-interpreted it to be about Jesus.

This is an interesting commentary by someone who is a Jew (Dr Seth Postell) but believes in Jesus and also comments on Tovia Singer and what he says about Christian interpretations and translations.

This next site is interesting and actually says that it is the Jews who changed "pierced" in Psalm 22 to "like a lion" (just by changing one little mark in the word) and also gives reasons to think that--namely that texts older than the Masoretic text (Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls) show that Psalm 22 had "pierced" in it.
It also shows that Psalm 22 was Messianic to many Rabbis of the past and showed a suffering Messiah as does Isa 53.

Psalm 22 - The Prophecy About The Crucified Messiah - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Psalm 22: Possibly the most famous prophetic psalm about the Messiah! Much like Isaiah 53, it describes the Messiah’s torment, rejection and death: “To the choirmaster: according to The Doe of the Dawn. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving...

www.oneforisrael.org

 

[loverofhumanity]

A number of reasons. A couple of big ones are the seductive idea (which seems a lie) of ultracorporeal life, and the even more seductive concept of having “the clean slate”, which is one of Christianity’s big selling-points. “Have all your sins washed away, and become a new man in Christ”, eh? (If only it were truly that easy.) As such, belief in Jesus, and that he was/is the “Christ” of St. Paul, is done out of slavish expedience to the foregoing causes.

Well we know energy cannot be destroyed so we can put afterlife in the too hard basket. But how does one ‘know’ their sins have been washed away? I don’t think we can ever assume such a thing. At best hope that our indiscretions will be overlooked by an all forgiving God. But only hope not any guarantee. Any assumed guarantee is pure arrogance because none of us know really, if there is a God, how He will judge us individually. I believe in God and hope but never assume. But in the end, the atheist may end up in heaven and the devout religionist in hell so to speak. We cannot assume anything just try and live good lives.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing is conclusive, we should wait for the peer reviewed article.
In the meantime something on the use of Yahweh in Egypt.

Exodus: The Name Yahweh in Egyptian Hieroglyphic Texts

The Shasu of Yahweh, mentioned in the topographical texts at Soleb and Amarah-West, were likely the Israelites, who by 1400 BC dwelt in the mountains of Canaan.

biblearchaeology.org

That does not appear to be a trustworthy source.

 

[Brian2]

That does not appear to be a trustworthy source.

This is it's self description:
A Christian Apologetics Ministry Dedicated to Demonstrating the Historical Reliability of the Bible through Archaeological and Biblical Research.
"Demonstrating" means presenting evidence for I presume.
I imagine it would see evidence from a certain angle, a Biblical Maximalist angle, and present it from that pov.
To say that the site is not trustworthy probably says more about you than about the site.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is it's self description:
A Christian Apologetics Ministry Dedicated to Demonstrating the Historical Reliability of the Bible through Archaeological and Biblical Research.
"Demonstrating" means presenting evidence for I presume.
I imagine it would see evidence from a certain angle, a Biblical Maximalist angle, and present it from that pov.
To say that the site is not trustworthy probably says more about you than about the site.

You did not do enough research. They openly admit to not being scientific. It is in their Mission Statement. Sorry, but your source disqualified itself:

About

ABR’s professional archaeologists are producing original research at biblical sites, examining how such discoveries illumine the text of the Bible.

biblearchaeology.org

 

[Brian2]

You did not do enough research. They openly admit to not being scientific. It is in their Mission Statement. Sorry, but your source disqualified itself:

About

ABR’s professional archaeologists are producing original research at biblical sites, examining how such discoveries illumine the text of the Bible.

biblearchaeology.org

No they don't openly admit that they are not being scientific.
What they say is that they present evidence for the reliability of the Bible.
We don't need to agree with their conclusions to trust the evidence that they present.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not a good offer if it is all bu——it!

This represented the original “crack” in the edifice of my theism. At one point in my life I was compelled to consider my Christian “faith” from the perspective of first principles: why did I believe that which I did. Upon asking myself this question, my answer to self was, “because the priests and nuns and my parents told me as a little boy with unformed critical thinking skills, that all of this was true, reliable and verified”. Once established as part of a belief system, these beliefs tend to be extremely “sticky”. How can we do such a horribly deluding thing to our little babies??

Let me just say that the Bible does not offer only life in heaven, it speaks of life on the earth also. When you have time, you might want to read Revelation 21:1-5.

 

[Zwing]

Let me just say that the Bible does not offer only life in heaven, it speaks of life on the earth also. When you have time, you might want to read Revelation 21:1-5.

Yes, I’m familiar with the tale of the “New Jerusalem”. I was once a Christian, remember. Frankly, even when I was Christian, most of Revelation seemed to me like it was written by Jerry Garcia after a particularly good acid trip. I always found it to be fairly inaccessible literature.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I’m familiar with the tale of the “New Jerusalem”. I was once a Christian, remember. Frankly, even when I was Christian, most of Revelation seemed to me like it was written by Jerry Garcia after a particularly good acid trip. I always found it to be fairly inaccessible literature.

Then you were being sarcastic about talking about heaven as if it's the only place Christians might go to after they die. Anyway, have a great day.