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Christians: Kill family who mentions other beliefs to you?

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Thomas Aquinas was a Christian. :facepalm:

Faith is necessary to find God. If this were not so, then why ado so many people descrbe themselves as atheists?

Raw computing-power will never suffice.

You must do what no machine can do: You must believe!

Why would God give people raw computing power and expect them to drop it? Isn't that a catch-22?

For instance logic dictates that going outside of logic is what's called "illogical." That word has negative connotations for a reason.

Why would God give us guidelines wherein their own guidelines tell us we can't drop them, then God expects us to drop them? That seems like a cruel game to me.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
You were wise to qualify that.

Well, I didn't say it to provoke but I'm really having difficulty understanding.

Why would an omnipotent, omniscient creator being -- infinite in scope of power and knowledge and so utterly alien and awesome compared to us mere mortals -- have such petty human emotions as "wrath," which is considered a vice to us?

In what way does Dawkins' quote not describe the God you seem to be talking about:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

The God you describe reminds me of what Dawkins is saying. I just want to understand why you think such an awesome being would carry such negative attributes? Or do you not consider them negative?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Aquinas did not find God using logic. . .Aquinas used logic to explain God. . .they're not the same.
So you don't think there was any logical thought in Aquinas prior to the Summa? Not in his early education or decision to become a Dominican? No logic at all?

wa:do
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
What kind of Hindu would say that?

I hope to be the kind of Hindu that puts TRUTH above all. One of our great religious Seers (Yudhisthira) refused to go to heaven because God would not let him take a stray dog that was depending on him to live. It turned out to be a test. Then when he went to heaven he again got P******d off due to the fact that he did not like the company in heaven. He believed the wrong people were sent to heaven and hell. He then went to hell just because it was the truthful thing to do. This was a test and he went beyond heaven and hell to enlightenment. Truth is the highest God. Even the wishes of God should be rejected for the Truth. Good behavior comes before all even our conception of God.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Thomas Aquinas was a Christian. :facepalm:
OMG no... :cover:
What does that have to do with anything? He is also a philosopher and used logic to find God.

Faith is necessary to find God. If this were not so, then why ado so many people descrbe themselves as atheists?

Raw computing-power will never suffice.

You must do what no machine can do: You must believe!
So blind faith then... no logic allowed?

wa:do
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Is logic the way you know those you love?

It's how I know they exist to experience the qualia of love directed at them, certainly. I'm not saying love is logical, but to say "I love X" you should know that X exists -- and that knowledge comes through reason alone, not "faith." Faith can't lead to knowledge.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Faith is necessary to find God. If this were not so, then why ado so many people descrbe themselves as atheists?

Believe in what. When an Atheist came to Gandhi and wanted to join his Ashram. He wanted to know if not believing in God was a problem. Gandhi asked him if he believed in TRUTH. The Atheist said yes. Gandhi said then let Truth be your God.
 

MW0082

Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
If God commands it, it is not murder ;)
Thats a pretty disturbing outlook on life, because YOUR god commands it does not mean it is not murder.

It is in fact still murder, the only way it could not be considered murder is if it was self defense. All else IS murder, regardless of what your god says.....:yes:
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
Well, I didn't say it to provoke but I'm really having difficulty understanding.
Why would an omnipotent, omniscient creator being -- infinite in scope of power and knowledge and so utterly alien and awesome compared to us mere mortals -- have such petty human emotions as "wrath," which is considered a vice to us?
In what way does Dawkins' quote not describe the God you seem to be talking about:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
The God you describe reminds me of what Dawkins is saying. I just want to understand why you think such an awesome being would carry such negative attributes? Or do you not consider them negative?
You have to get outside yourself.

Let's consider another and true reality. . .that of the soldier in war.
The mission he has to accomplish and the high stakes of that mission,
the survival rules he must live by and the consequences of going outside those rules,
judging which women and children are safe and the consequences of making the wrong judgment
are all a reality you know not of.
It has a different set of values, a different operating manual, different consequences for innocent mistakes of judgment, etc.

I use this illustration not as an illustriation of God, but to show what is meant by getting outside yourself.
You have to be able to comprehend a reality other than your own before your questions about God can be addressed,
because you have nothing outside yourself to which to relate the answers.
As long as you are the center of your universe, you won't be able to get here from there.
It's like a butterfly trying to explain flight to a caterpillar.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Believe in what. When an Atheist came to Gandhi and wanted to join his Ashram. He wanted to know if not believing in God was a problem. Gandhi asked him if he believed in TRUTH. The Atheist said yes. Gandhi said then let Truth be your God.

I can dig that.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
You have to get outside yourself.

Let's consider another and true reality. . .that of the soldier in war.
The mission he has to accomplish and the high stakes of that mission,
the survival rules he must live by and the consequences of going outside those rules,
judging which women and children are safe and the consequences of making the wrong judgment
are all a reality you know not of.
It has a different set of values, a different operating manual, different consequences for innocent mistakes of judgment, etc.

I use this illustration not as an illustriation of God, but to show what is meant by getting outside yourself.
You have to be able to comprehend a reality other than your own before your questions about God can be addressed,
because you have nothing outside yourself to which to relate the answers.
As long as you are the center of your universe, you won't be able to get here from there.
It's like a butterfly trying to explain flight to a caterpillar.

I get your example, am I ready for the next step?
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
"the" owner... apparently. It's funny how nobody agrees who owns what.
Well, "the" owner is the Ruler, Lawgiver and Judge.
Complaining and objecting are useless. . .and put me on the wrong side of the issue.

Not to mention, I completely trust my owner's wisdom, power, justice, judgment, and love.

 
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Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
It's how I know they exist to experience the qualia of love directed at them, certainly. I'm not saying love is logical, but to say "I love X" you should know that X exists -- and that knowledge comes through reason alone, not "faith." Faith can't lead to knowledge.

How about this, a scientist has faith in scientific method; because she believes in the method, she uses the method to experiment to gain knowledge in her field of study. If She believed she was alone in an absurd universe she would never become a scientist.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
It's how I know they exist to experience the qualia of love directed at them, certainly. I'm not saying love is logical, but to say "I love X" you should know that X exists -- and that knowledge comes through reason alone, not "faith." Faith can't lead to knowledge.
I know my loved ones exist not by reason, but by experience. It was not reason that told me my mother existed when I was a very small child.
My experience was before my reason.
 

allright

Active Member
Ezekiel 18 :26-31
If a righteous man turns away from doing right and does evil, he will die for his evil
If an evil man turns from his evil and does what is right he will save his soul. He shall surely live and not die.
Yet you say the way of the Lord is unjust. Is it not your ways that are unjust ?
 
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