Christians/LDS: Jesus of the Bible vs. Jesus of the BoM

[Sola'lor]

Personally I think the Book of Mormon verses are referring specifically to the Western hemisphere. The darkness was only three hours in Jerusalem but it was three days in the Land of the Book of Mormon.

 

[sojourner]

A perfect example of errors based on the flawed King James. an example of a Christian believe and no doubt part of a particular Christian religion, based on a flawed and faulty text.

Jesus Christ is God the Son, having an immortal resurrected body
Our Eternal Father is God the Father, having an immortal resurrected body
The Holy Ghost is God the Father and God the Son's Spirit extended to men on earth

God the Father and God the Son have bodies of flesh and bone, they are immortal and perfect.

The Bible isn't clear as to the nature of the resurrection body. The Bible is clear that God was never a flesh-and-bone Being. God is a Spirit.
These positions are not the result of a "faulty" text -- King James, or otherwise. These statements are found in the original Greek and Hebrew, in the earliest texts we have, which now predate the Masoretic text the King James translators used. Your information is patently incorrect in this case.

 

[sojourner]

Then you use an equally or more flawed text.

According to Joseph Smith the King James is the most correct, yet still has flaws, all other texts are equally or more flawed, having the SAME or MORE errors than the King James.

So then your belief and religion also has same and possibly more errors concerning Christ and his gospel.

Then Joseph Smith didn't know about the LXX, or the other early codices that were discovered after his death -- nor did he know about the existence of the Nag Hammadi library, or the Dead Sea scrolls.

The King James is no longer considered to be the most correct. It is surprisingly correct for its time, but scholars (many of whom have no religious agenda) know that it's not the "most correct." It probably was when Joseph was alive, but no longer.

So then, since we have access to more accurate texts than he did (and they're all very, very close, with minor changes or differences) who has access to the best texts?

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is the same in all Christian religions, our understanding of Jesus and his gospel is different, it's the very reason we as LDS have been set apart from other Christian religions. There's a divine purpose for it.

Isaiah 53
Mosiah 14

You're mistaken. You're over generalizing. We have made a mish-mash of Jesus, just as y'all have. We've just done it in different ways. But Jesus is presented differently in each of the gospels.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus wrote the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Another Testament of Jesus Christ) however men have changed the original writings, in order to fit their particular false beliefs of who Jesus is and what his gospel is all about.

The basic message of salvation through Jesus Christ is there in the King James, but many parts are missing and/or are in error, which causes us (the LDS religion) to appear to be in error and makes us appear to others as if we are worshipping a different Jesus than that of the Bible, even though it is the same divine being, Jesus Christ, who wrote both texts, but because the King James Bible has been altered, it makes us (the LDS faith) to appear to be worshipping a different Jesus.

Jesus wrote the Bible? Wha...???
This is so far off into fantasy-land it's not even funny. People have changed the writings, that was common practice in ancient times. But once the canon was set, the texts became rigid. you seem to buy into some kind of Biblical conspiracy-theory that just ain't there, in order to prove your theological position. You're just off-base, exegetically speaking.

 

[sojourner]

I have used Christian doctrine and theolgy from the Bible to show you that the Mormon Jesus is a different Jesus than the Biblical Jesus. I still don't follow you very well.

This isn't about doctrine and theology. It's about exegeting the texts. You haven't done that. Doctrine is formulated from the theology that is developed from exegesis. That's what we're trying to get at here. What do the texts, themselves, say? Not, how does the Church formulate what they say?

 

[sojourner]

Pick out a scripture from the Bible and compare it to the Book of Mormon and see if there are any theological differences between Jesus of the Bible and Jesus of the Book of Mormon.

Rather, you pick out a scripture about Jesus in the Bible and I'll see if there's a scripture in the Book of Mormon that agrees or disagrees with the King James Bible about who Jesus is.

I don't think there are any differences, the Book of Mormon really is a very basic writing and testament of Jesus Christ.

You can't do a passage-by-passage comparison, because the gospels and epistles just weren't written that way. We have to look at them book-by-book to gain a better understanding of the overall pictures they present. That's where the differences will begin to emerge.

 

[Sola'lor]

Wow! Sojourner you've been busy.

 

[sojourner]

Are you saying that you guys want to leave out all doctrine and theology?

Yes! We are! Thank you.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

They're different events. Jerusalem and the Americas are separated by thousands of miles, and the timing of the 2 sets of darkness is different on each continent. The Jerusalem darkness (3 hours worth) happened while Christ was still on the cross. The American darkness (3 days worth) happened after Christ had died (since it and the other calamities were the signs that he had died.)

Edward's post says that there was a worldwide darkness of three hours, not an American darkness and Jerusalem darkness. Are you suggesting that the Bible is incorrect?

Luke 23: 44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Helaman 14: 27 And he said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days.

 

[Sola'lor]

So how then did each group know that darkness covered the whole earth? Did people on the other side of the earth phone them up and say, "Hey it's dark over here too."

Personally it seems much more reasonable that the darkness covered those areas where those people lived. Then since it covered everything they could see, they assumed it covered the whole world.

 

[edward]

So how then did each group know that darkness covered the whole earth? Did people on the other side of the earth phone them up and say, "Hey it's dark over here too."

Personally it seems much more reasonable that the darkness covered those areas where those people lived. Then since it covered everything they could see, they assumed it covered the whole world.

Well, in my book when it says it covered the WHOLE earth, that means the earth in its entirety. Also, that still doesn't answer the three hour, three day discrepancy.

Edward

 

[edward]

So how then did each group know that darkness covered the whole earth? Did people on the other side of the earth phone them up and say, "Hey it's dark over here too."

You know that is kind of funny , but before there was the internet and cell phones and even television, God still could speak to people no matter where they were/are on this planet.

Edward

 

[ἀλήθεια]

So how then did each group know that darkness covered the whole earth? Did people on the other side of the earth phone them up and say, "Hey it's dark over here too."

Personally it seems much more reasonable that the darkness covered those areas where those people lived. Then since it covered everything they could see, they assumed it covered the whole world.

The discrepancy isn't the area that was covered, it is the time that the earth was dark.

Do you need a phone to know that Christ arose? You weren't there. Also, are you saying that both the Book of Mormon and the Bible are not God-breathed?

 

[edward]

They're different events. Jerusalem and the Americas are separated by thousands of miles, and the timing of the 2 sets of darkness is different on each continent. The Jerusalem darkness (3 hours worth) happened while Christ was still on the cross. The American darkness (3 days worth) happened after Christ had died (since it and the other calamities were the signs that he had died.)

Thanks for responding, Silvermoon, but that doesn't agree even with your scripture. Helaman 14: 27 And he said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days.

The irony of this is that three Biblical writers mention three hours and none of them bother to mention about the three day calamity.

Edward

 

[Sola'lor]

Yes I agree that God can speak to people all over the world. But the account of tye darkness covering the whole earth/world isn't God speaking. It's the writers speaking.

Well, in my book when it says it covered the WHOLE earth, that means the earth in its entirety.

It's say whole earth in my book too. It also says in my book that a snake spoke to a woman. Yet I don't believe that an actual snake had vocal cords. Do you believe a snake actually had vocal cords?

Also, that still doesn't answer the three hour, three day discrepancy.

The darkness lasted longer in the Book of Mormon area than in Jerusalem. There's your answer.

 

[silvermoon383]

I hate repeating what others have already said but I guess I should:

It was dark in the entire area where the writer was in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. When that happens they assumed that the darkness was over the entire Earth because that's what it looked like. Heck, people still do this today!

 

[edward]

Well, the thread was about the differences between the Jesus of the Bible vs, the Book of Mormon. There they are. People can go to extreme lengths to justify their beliefs. That is fine, also. I was merely relating what the written word says.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Edward

 

[Sola'lor]

Thank you for your input too. It's good to hear varying views points. Any other topics?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I hate repeating what others have already said but I guess I should:

It was dark in the entire area where the writer was in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. When that happens they assumed that the darkness was over the entire Earth because that's what it looked like. Heck, people still do this today!

The Bible says that all scripture is God-breathed. Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Mormon is scripture. Are you saying that neither book is God-breathed? Are you saying that you would deny that darkness covered the whole earth even though scripture says it did?

Luke 23: 44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Helaman 14: 27 And he said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days.



Helaman Chapter 14 is a prophecy given by Samuel the Lamanite. The darkness was not happening at the time of the prophecy. God is supposed to have told Samuel the Lamanite what would happen when Christ died. God would know if darkness was going to cover the whole earth or just part of it, and Godd would know how long the darkness would last.

Helaman 14
1 And now it came to pass that Samuel, the Lamanite, did prophesy a great many more things which cannot be written.

2 And behold, he said unto them: Behold, I give unto you a sign; for five years more cometh, and behold, then cometh the Son of God to redeem all those who shall believe on his name...

20 But behold, as I said unto you concerning another sign, a sign of his death, behold, in that day that he shall suffer death the sun shall be darkened and refuse to give his light unto you; and also the moon and the stars; and there shall be no light upon the face of this land, even from the time that he shall suffer death, for the space of three days, to the time that he shall rise again from the dead...

27 And he said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days.