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Christians/LDS: Jesus of the Bible vs. Jesus of the BoM
- Thread starter Watchmen
- Start date
FFH
Veteran Member
Jesus is the same, but other Christians do have a different definition of Jesus, based on a different definition of God, in the error ridden King James, that's why these discussions go on for eternity, until they drop the error ridden King James, which the Book of Mormon does correct many passages in the King James, pointing out the errors.
Most LDS don't even realize that.
That's why Joseph Smith was told to join no other Christian religion, because they were using a faulty text, the KING JAMES.
Joseph Smith made that VERY CLEAR and poured over the KING JAMES and made all the necessary corrections, which are found in the LDS version of the KING JAMES, in the form of JST (Joseph Smith Translation) footnotes.
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FFH
Veteran Member
Chrisitan Pilgrim,
You're using a faulty error ridden text (King James and all other more error ridden interpretations based on that text) as the basis of your understanding of Jesus Christ and his gospel, that's why all you will ever understand and have is a faulty error ridden gospel of Jesus Christ, one that will offer you salvation but never exaltation.
Edit: Jesus offers us not just salvation (Christian religion) but also exaltation (LDS religion). Jesus is the same, but what he offers us is different based on our understanding and acceptance of his gospel.
There is a difference between your understanding of Jesus, and his gospel, and my understanding of Jesus, and his gospel, and what he offers me.
You're using a faulty error ridden text (King James and all other more error ridden interpretations based on that text) as the basis of your understanding of Jesus Christ and his gospel, that's why all you will ever understand and have is a faulty error ridden gospel of Jesus Christ, one that will offer you salvation but never exaltation.
Edit: Jesus offers us not just salvation (Christian religion) but also exaltation (LDS religion). Jesus is the same, but what he offers us is different based on our understanding and acceptance of his gospel.
There is a difference between your understanding of Jesus, and his gospel, and my understanding of Jesus, and his gospel, and what he offers me.
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Watchmen, I am as yet, wanting to stay out of this thread since the “debate” section seems to engendure argument rather than progress in understanding a point of view they we not agree with. The emotions and motives underlying the debate threads are so often tainted by obstinance and pettiness that I RARELY see the point of becoming involved. I frankly can’t tell you why I responded to this one other than no one seemed to want to respond to the actual OP, (or perhaps no one had any response to the OP - I don’t know). If I can, can I simply talk about the Book of Mormon and Biblical Narratives from memory of it? If I get it wrong, let me know, I will slap myself and dig out a Bible and Book of Mormon (or other literature) at some point if I really need to....
As I look at the different narratives regarding various characters from sacred literature, they all change to some degree. However, most of them change in ways that are different than Jesus.
Abraham, in his youth histories, starts out as a youth growing up in an idolotrous household and himself, tainted with the religion of his father. He initially has the expected immature logic of youth and he makes expected illogical errors a youth would make. He makes errors in his worship but progresses from one bit of truth to the next until he comes to discover the true God; all the while making subtle changes; from ignorance to knowledge.
We have a better example of this maturing by looking at the biblical Joseph, sold into Egypt by his brothers. Initially he is just a lad (perhaps impetuous and a bit proud of himself, but nonetheless, he starts out as a boy. The Quran (though is it not a history book per se), (includes just a few elements missing from the current biblical narrative) also displays similar elements of Josephs maturation. The Jasher narrative (the most complete narrative of Joseph during his time in Egypt that I know of), supplements this picture of a maturing Joseph (and his maturing brothers) from boy to powerful leader of Egypt, using mature logic in testing his brothers to see if they had truly repented of what they had done to him.
The point is, that most sacred literature has some character elements that remain the same and subtle changes occur as they mature into powerful figures. The boy Abraham does not initially know the true God, but he ALWAYS follows his conscience; Joseph does know the true God as a youth and he ALWAYS follows his conscience. Yet both the child Abraham and child Joseph become intelligent, logical, powerful men having the character of mature men and the narratives demonstrate subtle changes in this process.
For me, when I read the biblical and the Book of Mormon narratives, I think that Jesus basic character remains constant. (As an aside note: I love psychology and I think It would be INTERESTING to read the literature specifically FOR signs of Jesus “maturation”
However, the biblical Jesus is mainly a pre-resurrection narrative and his “burdens” seem to me to be partly physical. The Post-resurrection Jesus of the Book of Mormon and of the 40 day literature is not “physically burdened”.The Biblical Jesus seems physically tired: he works tirelessly; he has religious detractors yipping at his heels, always wanting to create arguments (and though they can neither do harm to him, nor the gospel, still it takes precious time and physical energy for him to provide them with information which he knows that they will ultimately reject regardless of what he says). Jesus seems to be to be physically exhausted as he sleeps during a storm while crossing the Galilee.
The resurrected Jesus of the Book of Mormon narrative does not seem physically tired. He is surrounded by individuals who are not detractors, but instead, are believers who honor him. He has thousands of individuals feel his hands and side and thus be able to witness that he truly is the redeemer Israel was awaiting. This took time. The blessing of their children took time. The teaching of their leaders-disciples took time.
This is why the Book of Mormon Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, reminded me most of the ancient Christian 40 day literature where the resurrected Christ is living among and teaching his disciples. In this early Christian literature, the resurrected Jesus is not particularly tired, he is not surrounded by detractors, but rather he is surrounded by those who are honestly looking to learn and are prepared to listen. The settings are so different that it’s difficult to tell what is authentic narrative of a changing “burden” in Jesus and what is my own subjective imagining.
Clear
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't understand your argument. None of the best Bible scholars uses the KJV as a standard, because we know it neither represents the earliest texts, nor the best translation sources.
None of these states is found in the Bible. Plus, we're not discussing "states of the soul." We're discussing differences of how Jesus is presented by the Bible and the BOM.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
I thought the Mormon missionaries carried the King James Bible when they come to your door. Of course, they have inspired JS notes in their version. It's good to laugh everyone! Thor is dead, and Jesus is alive!
FFH
Veteran Member
A perfect example of errors based on the flawed King James. an example of a Christian believe and no doubt part of a particular Christian religion, based on a flawed and faulty text.
Jesus Christ is God the Son, having an immortal resurrected body
Our Eternal Father is God the Father, having an immortal resurrected body
The Holy Ghost is God the Father and God the Son's Spirit extended to men on earth
God the Father and God the Son have bodies of flesh and bone, they are immortal and perfect.
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Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
FFH
Veteran Member
Then you use an equally or more flawed text.
According to Joseph Smith the King James is the most correct, yet still has flaws, all other texts are equally or more flawed, having the SAME or MORE errors than the King James.
So then your belief and religion also has same and possibly more errors concerning Christ and his gospel.
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FFH
Veteran Member
We believe we have an Eternal Mother, the Mother of our spirits, yet we have no scripture written specifically about this, it's just understood that we do, since we have an Eternal Father of our spirits.
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Stay on target, folks.
Regarding differences between the BoM and Bible in their portrayal of Jesus, I think only two have been mentioned in this thread:
1. His birthplace (Jersalem vs. Bethlehem).
2. His demeanor (suffering in the NT vs. resurrected Jesus of the BoM).
Does anyone have another difference they'd like to discuss?
Regarding differences between the BoM and Bible in their portrayal of Jesus, I think only two have been mentioned in this thread:
1. His birthplace (Jersalem vs. Bethlehem).
2. His demeanor (suffering in the NT vs. resurrected Jesus of the BoM).
Does anyone have another difference they'd like to discuss?
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
FFH
Veteran Member
Even today, "Nearly all travellers (tourists) arrive (in Bethlehem) via Jerusalem"
"Bethlehem is a small city located some 10 km (6 miles) south of the Old City of Jerusalem within the West Bank, (occupied by Israel), in an "Area A" zone administered by the Palestinian Authority."
Bethlehem travel guide - Wikitravel
Lehi and Nephi would have naturally, collectively and generally referred to Bethlehem as part of Jerusalem, a suburb of Jerusalem, just as South Jordan (where I live) is a suburb of Salt Lake City.
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Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Thanks for the information. Maybe that's another difference between the Jesus in the Book of Mormon, and the Jesus in the Bible. Jesus in the Bible only has an Eternal Father but no Eternal Mother.
Therefore, Jesus did not have an Eternal Mother because Jesus had no beginining. He is the Alpha and Omega according to the Holy Bible.
FFH
Veteran Member
Again, a perfect example of a flawed scripture, mistranslated from the Greek text, thus misleading the reader slightly. The King James, is still the most correct text, other than the Joseph Smith Inspired Version. The King James has errors, but in this particular instance, it does not.
John 6: 46 (King James)
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joseph Smith was and is of God, a godly man, and he DID see the Father and the Son.
John 6:46 (Joseph Smith Inspired Version)
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Keep using a flawed text and you'll have a distorted view of Jesus Christ and the Father.
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Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
FFH
Veteran Member
The Lord was chosen from the beginning, by our Eternal Father, who created his spirit body.
Jesus has no beginning or end, and neither do we, we are eternal intelligences, having always existed, with no beginning or end, but our spirit bodies had a beginning, they were created by our Eternal Father, as was Jesus Christ's spirit created by our Eternal Father.
Jesus is the God of the Old and New Testament, he being God before he came to earth, thus he is the Alpha and Omege, the Beginning and the End.
Jesus started everything, by creating this world and everything in it, including each one of our physical bodies, and he will finish it (his work).
Jesus will finish what he started. We are still a work in progress, Jesus is not finished with us yet, the last book of the Bible is yet to be fulfilled, which he is the author of.
Jesus is the Beginning and the End, he knows the end from the beginning, he has divinely designed it, is recording it, and has also written it before it happens.