Christians/LDS: Jesus of the Bible vs. Jesus of the BoM

[Christian Pilgrim]

Why don't we all stick to the contents of our postings as well as the thread topic? If we try to undermine each other's postings by personal attacks, then we are avoiding the thread topic. Please tell me what you meant about comparing the Jesus of the Bible with the Jesus of the Book of Mormon? Of course I believe the Jesus revealed in the Bible is a different Jesus than the Jesus revealed in the Book of Mormon. If you think about it, Mormonism is all about the restoration of apostate Christianity defined within biblical Christianity. If I believed in the Mormon Jesus, I would convert to being a Mormon Christian. If my understanding is correct in regards to the Mormon gospel, Prophet Joseph Smith was used by God to restore apostate Christianity through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Book of Mormon is more authoritative or accurate than the Holy Bible. If we believe in the same Jesus, then why do you need the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and modern day prophets? The debate is quite simple. We believe in mutually exclusive Jesus Christs because we believe in mutually exclusive sources of revelation, and mutually exclusive sources of final authority.

Bible alone Jesus = Jesus revealed in the Scriptures alone

Mormon Jesus = Jesus revealed in the Scriptures + Book of Mormon + Doctrine and Covenants + Pearl of Great Price + modern day prophets

We all know the essential differences include Jesus being God the Son in the godhead, the incarnation of God, the work of Christ, the dual nature of Jesus Christ, the sufficency of Christ, the attributes of Jesus Christ, and most of all... the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Please read your OP again:

Watchmen Offline
Religion: An LDS Exception
Title:Rorschach

Christians/LDS: Jesus of the Bible vs. Jesus of the BoM
Are the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the BoM the same or different? Why?
__________________

 

[Watchmen]

Of course I believe the Jesus revealed in the Bible is a different Jesus than the Jesus revealed in the Book of Mormon.

I'm glad you didn't try to refute your slippery tactics of editing things once we're well past them (of course you didn't admit your trickery either).

Anyway, moving on. The above is a quote from your most recent post and it is exactly what this thread is about. You believe/claim that Jesus in the Bible and Jesus in the Book of Mormon are different. Tell me how they are different only using the Bible and Book of Mormon. This does NOT mean you start quoting a bunch of Bible verses. It does mean that you tell us something about Jesus, use the Bible to support what you tell us, then you use the Book of Mormon to show us how it's different. The Mormons will then respond.

(I really don't know why I'm giving you another chance - I must have a big heart).

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I'm glad you didn't try to refute your slippery tactics of editing things once we're well past them (of course you didn't admit your trickery either).

Anyway, moving on. The above is a quote from your most recent post and it is exactly what this thread is about. You believe/claim that Jesus in the Bible and Jesus in the Book of Mormon are different. Tell me how they are different only using the Bible and Book of Mormon. This does NOT mean you start quoting a bunch of Bible verses. It does mean that you tell us something about Jesus, use the Bible to support what you tell us, then you use the Book of Mormon to show us how it's different. The Mormons will then respond.

(I really don't know why I'm giving you another chance - I must have a big heart).

Are you willing to discuss the work of Christ on this thread? Why are you against Bible verses anyways? I thought Mormons like the Bible too?

 

[Watchmen]

Are you willing to discuss the work of Christ on this thread? Why are you against Bible verses anyways? I thought Mormons like the Bible too?

Are you willing to improve your reading comprehension skills?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Are you willing to improve your reading comprehension skills?

I think you don't want to discuss the work of Christ. I have no idea what you want to compare with the Mormon Jesus and the Jesus revealed in the Scriptures alone. It seems so ridiculous to separate the person of Christ and the work of Christ. Focusing of the person and work of Christ is discussing Jesus Christ. When a Christian discusses Jesus Christ, it is about his life, death, burial, and resurrection. Who was Jesus Christ, and what did Jesus Christ come to do? Did He accomplish what He came to do? Here's the Apostle Paul's reminder to Christians again:

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - 1 Cor 2:22

 

[Watchmen]

I think you don't want to discuss the work of Christ. I have no idea what you want to compare with the Mormon Jesus and the Jesus revealed in the Scriptures alone. It seems so ridiculous to separate the person of Christ and the work of Christ. Focusing of the person and work of Christ is discussing Jesus Christ. When a Christian discusses Jesus Christ, it is about his life, death, burial, and resurrection. Who was Jesus Christ, and what did Jesus Christ come to do? Did He accomplish what He came to do? Here's the Apostle Paul's reminder to Christians again:

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - 1 Cor 2:22

I never said I don't want to discuss the work of Christ. It is perfectly clear what this thread is for and you either 1) just don't get it or 2) are playing stupid. We're many many pages into this thread now (the one you asked me to create) and you have not demonstrated a single difference between the Jesus found in the Bible and the Jesus found in the Book of Mormon.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I never said I don't want to discuss the work of Christ. It is perfectly clear what this thread is for and you either 1) just don't get it or 2) are playing stupid. We're many many pages into this thread now (the one you asked me to create) and you have not demonstrated a single difference between the Jesus found in the Bible and the Jesus found in the Book of Mormon.

This is from post 28. Maybe you missed it. Do you mind responding to it?

This is the area that I would enjoy discussing, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and what He accomplished by his perfect obedience to the Father's will including obedience to death on the cross. What did Jesus actually accomplish and for whom? I will stick to the Bible, and you will have to provide the information from the Book of Mormon. The person and work of Christ on behalf of sinners, or Christ and Him crucified is the gospel of God about His Son. The Jesus in the Bible redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. It seems the Biblical Jesus paid the price of sin in full on behalf of sinners who believe. The Mormon Jesus seems to only pay a price to give all mankind an opportunity to be saved, and personal obedience to the law is necessary to be reconciled to God. Would this be accurate in the difference between the Mormon Jesus and the Biblical Jesus, since one secures and merits salvation perfectly for those God has chosen to save? This is not intended to be offensive, but rather objective. I find the Mormon Jesus to be less effective, anemic, and weaker to accomplish the mission God the Father gave HIm to rescue sinners. The Mormon Jesus does not portray in His mission to rescue sinners in the same way the Biblical Jesus did in actually propitiating the sins of God's chosen ones. The Biblical Jesus paid the full price of sin to reconcile certain sinners to God perfectly. The Mormon Jesus only paid a partial payment for sins; therefore the Mormon Jesus did not atone for the sins in full for anyone. The Biblical Jesus actually saves sinners perfectly, to the glory of God the Father and to the praise of His glorious grace by His redeemned. Since the Mormon Jesus leaves mankind to save themselves, the Mormon Jesus is only a partial savior and is not the sovereign Lord as revealed in the Scriptures.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. - The Apostle Paul

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - Paul

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God's Everlasting Love

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Paul

 

[Watchmen]

This is from post 28. Maybe you missed it. Do you mind responding to it?

Your post above and post 28 do NOT demonstrate a difference as found in the Bible and BoM. You've used Bible verses to assert something about Jesus. Now use the Book of Mormon to show how it's different (if you can).

 

[Clear]

Watchman:

This is the first “debate” I’ve looked at since I became a member of the forum. It reminds me why I dislike debates and the petty behaviors that inevitably accompany them. So, since I'm here, I’ll make a single comment and then leave, if you don’t mind.

I remember feeling a subtle difference between the pre-resurrected Christ of the New Testament testimony of Jesus and the Post-resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon's testimony of Jesus. I do not know if I could have described this difference when I first read the Book of Mormon’s Testimony of the resurrected Jesus.

As an non-denominational Christian in college (a few years ago), I remember first reading the Book of Mormon. I remember reading the chapters where the resurrected Jesus appeared to the Nephites in the Book of Mormon and I was superficially impressed that his demeanor as a post-resurrection being seemed similar to that which he displayed pre-resurrection. That is, he still seemed to possess the same profound Charity and perfectly controlled and self-assured Character as in the New Testament narratives. However, it seemed the Resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon seemed less “burdened”. It is a only subtle difference, but it seemed this way to me when I read the account.

Interestingly, I recently reviewed some of the 40 day literature’ testimony of Jesus, where, this same Resurrected Jesus, having redeemed men, lived among the apostles, taught them the deeper truths of the Gospel plan, and prepared them for their ministries and his physical departure.

The OP reminded me that the post-resurrected Jesus of the 40 days literature (Abbaton) also seemed less "burdened" and now, I suppose this subtle difference is what I felt before and it is what one would expect of a post-resurrected Christ who has accomplished the redemption of all men.

Clear

 

[Watchmen]

Watchman:

This is the first “debate” I’ve looked at since I became a member of the forum. It reminds me why I dislike debates and the petty behaviors that inevitably accompany them. So, since I'm here, I’ll make a single comment and then leave, if you don’t mind.

I remember feeling a subtle difference between the pre-resurrected Christ of the New Testament testimony of Jesus and the Post-resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon's testimony of Jesus. I do not know if I could have described this difference when I first read the Book of Mormon’s Testimony of the resurrected Jesus.

As an non-denominational Christian in college (a few years ago), I remember first reading the Book of Mormon. I remember reading the chapters where the resurrected Jesus appeared to the Nephites in the Book of Mormon and I was superficially impressed that his demeanor as a post-resurrection being seemed similar to that which he displayed pre-resurrection. That is, he still seemed to possess the same profound Charity and perfectly controlled and self-assured Character as in the New Testament narratives. However, it seemed the Resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon seemed less “burdened”. It is a only subtle difference, but it seemed this way to me when I read the account.

Interestingly, I recently reviewed some of the 40 day literature’ testimony of Jesus, where, this same Resurrected Jesus, having redeemed men, lived among the apostles, taught them the deeper truths of the Gospel plan, and prepared them for their ministries and his physical departure.

The OP reminded me that the post-resurrected Jesus of the 40 days literature (Abbaton) also seemed less "burdened" and now, I suppose this subtle difference is what I felt before and it is what one would expect of a post-resurrected Christ who has accomplished the redemption of all men.

Clear

Thank you for a great post. I really appreciate it. If possible, could you throw in some verses from the Bible and Book of Mormon to demonstrate what you mean? I suspect the difference you allude to might exist because the Nephites had not yet heard the basic gospel from Christ himself. Thus, they weren't ready for the deeper truths you speak of that Christ shared in the 40 days literature.

 

[zomg]

Watchman:

This is the first “debate” I’ve looked at since I became a member of the forum. It reminds me why I dislike debates and the petty behaviors that inevitably accompany them. So, since I'm here, I’ll make a single comment and then leave, if you don’t mind.

I remember feeling a subtle difference between the pre-resurrected Christ of the New Testament testimony of Jesus and the Post-resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon's testimony of Jesus. I do not know if I could have described this difference when I first read the Book of Mormon’s Testimony of the resurrected Jesus.

As an non-denominational Christian in college (a few years ago), I remember first reading the Book of Mormon. I remember reading the chapters where the resurrected Jesus appeared to the Nephites in the Book of Mormon and I was superficially impressed that his demeanor as a post-resurrection being seemed similar to that which he displayed pre-resurrection. That is, he still seemed to possess the same profound Charity and perfectly controlled and self-assured Character as in the New Testament narratives. However, it seemed the Resurrected Christ of the Book of Mormon seemed less “burdened”. It is a only subtle difference, but it seemed this way to me when I read the account.

Interestingly, I recently reviewed some of the 40 day literature’ testimony of Jesus, where, this same Resurrected Jesus, having redeemed men, lived among the apostles, taught them the deeper truths of the Gospel plan, and prepared them for their ministries and his physical departure.

The OP reminded me that the post-resurrected Jesus of the 40 days literature (Abbaton) also seemed less "burdened" and now, I suppose this subtle difference is what I felt before and it is what one would expect of a post-resurrected Christ who has accomplished the redemption of all men.

Clear

Nice post.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I find it so interesting that LDS Christians wants to be so accepted by Christendom (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans - historic Christianity), yet at the same time, Mormonism is built on restoring apostate Christianity (Christendom). Why would LDS Christians want to be accepted by a bunch of apostates? I though the LSD mission was to restore apostate Christianity?

 

[silvermoon383]

]I though the LSD mission was to restore apostate Christianity?

Figured I say this before you edit your post to remove all the evidence:

You sir, are beyond the pale. (Not to mention that the "joke" has been done to death.) I know you'll claim it's just a simple typo, but your credibility has been in the toilet for a very long time. I've had to deal with people like you for a long time, the ones that come in with large smiles, claiming the best of intentions and that they "love" me, then immediately start tossing the most insidious things imaginable.

Because of people like you I hesitate to speak of matters of faith. Not from fear, but because I will not allow people to attempt to twist my words, and especially not my testimony, into a weapon to be used against me or others.

"Mister Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged."

"But she-or someone like her-will always be with us...waiting for the right climate in which to flourish...spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay." -Captain Jean-Luc Picard

 

[tomspug]

Figured I say this before you edit your post to remove all the evidence:

You sir, are beyond the pale. (Not to mention that the "joke" has been done to death.) I know you'll claim it's just a simple typo, but your credibility has been in the toilet for a very long time. I've had to deal with people like you for a long time, the ones that come in with large smiles, claiming the best of intentions and that they "love" me, then immediately start tossing the most insidious things imaginable.

Because of people like you I hesitate to speak of matters of faith. Not from fear, but because I will not allow people to attempt to twist my words, and especially not my testimony, into a weapon to be used against me or others.

"Mister Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged."

"But she-or someone like her-will always be with us...waiting for the right climate in which to flourish...spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay." -Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Being vicious isn't a proper response. The idea that the purpose of the LDS church is restorative is PLAIN AS DAY in the Book of Mormon.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Figured I say this before you edit your post to remove all the evidence:

You sir, are beyond the pale. (Not to mention that the "joke" has been done to death.) I know you'll claim it's just a simple typo, but your credibility has been in the toilet for a very long time. I've had to deal with people like you for a long time, the ones that come in with large smiles, claiming the best of intentions and that they "love" me, then immediately start tossing the most insidious things imaginable.

Because of people like you I hesitate to speak of matters of faith. Not from fear, but because I will not allow people to attempt to twist my words, and especially not my testimony, into a weapon to be used against me or others.

"Mister Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged."

"But she-or someone like her-will always be with us...waiting for the right climate in which to flourish...spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay." -Captain Jean-Luc Picard

What kind of response is that to my honest and sincere question and comments? Here's my posting again. Please try answer my questions and comments if you can.

I find it so interesting that LDS Christians wants to be so accepted by Christendom (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans - historic Christianity), yet at the same time, Mormonism is built on restoring apostate Christianity (Christendom). Why would LDS Christians want to be accepted by a bunch of apostates? I though the LSD mission was to restore apostate Christianity?

The Great Apostasy

Please study and read official LDS restoration theology about the apostasy of Chrisdendom (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans, and others who worship the Triune God).

 

[sojourner]

To know a different Jesus is the same as knowing a different gospel.


For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. - 2 Cor 11:4

All gospels are different from each other, and each gospel presents Jesus in a different way, with a different theological agenda. I'm assuming that, if the BOM is authentic literature, it will perform similarly to other authentic literature and present its own take on Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

I'm still interested in seeing someone legitimately exegete the BOM, so we can find out who Jesus is, according to those authors.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I'm still interested in seeing someone legitimately exegete the BOM, so we can find out who Jesus is, according to those authors.

I believe sojourner is a univeralist Christian. I wish that his view is the truth, but I just don't find a universalistic application to all people in the Scriptures. I have had friends and relatives who have died without faith in Christ. I guess you would have a higher view of the work of Christ than me if you believe that all mankind we be saved apart from faith in Christ. Have I understood your view correctly. If not, please correct my understanding of your view.

 

[FFH]

Jesus is the same (comma), people's messed up understanding of Jesus Christ and his gospel is different, due to errors in the King James.

Following a faulty King James text as a basis for any religion will give you just that a faulty error ridden religion.

There are four different basic types of people, Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial and those who will spend eternity in Outer Darkness.

Celestial ~ They accept Jesus Christ and the fullness of the Father (salvation and exaltation)
Terrestrial ~ They accept Jesus Christ but not the Father (salvation)
Telestial ~ They receive the Holy Ghost but not the Father or the Son
Outer Darkness ~ They deny the Holy Ghost

That's a basic outline and the reason we're different from other Christians. They have salvation but not exaltation, that's why they're so angry with us, their progression is limited to a Terrestrial state.

Let's lift them up to a higher level by being examples of Jesus Christ, by offering the fullness of his gospel in love.

Let's show them the fullness of the Father and his gospel in love.

We are called to do that, now and throughout eternity.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Jesus is the same people's messed up understanding of Jesus Christ is different, due to errors in the King James.

Following a faulty King James text as a basis for any religion will give you just that a faulty error ridden religion.

There are three different basic types of people, Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial.

Celestial ~ Accept Jesus Christ and the fullness of the Father (salvation and exaltation)
Terrestrial ~ Accept Jesus Christ but not the Father (salvation)
Telestial ~ Receive the Holy Ghost but not the Father or the Son
Outer Darkness ~ Deny the Holy Ghost

That's a basic outline and the reason we're different from other Christians. They have salvation but not exaltation, that's why they're so angry with us, their progression is limited to a Terrestrial state.

Let's lift them up to a higher level by being examples of Jesus Christ, by offering the fullness of his gospel in love.

Let's show them the fullness of the Father and his gospel in love.

We are called to do that, now and throughout eternity.

You lost me my friend. The KJV wasn't even the mainstream English bible during those days. The Genevia Bible was the version that came to America and was considered the oneof the main Protestant Bible after the Protestant Reformation. There were many many many other translations before the King James Bible. If my history is accurate, the King James Bible was a paraphrased in sense of the Bishop's Bible in 1611 or so. Maybe the Genevia Bible, Tyndale Bible and Bishop's Bible were accurate which all came before the King James Bible. Now how does that validate your claim above? If I understand official LDS theology, the great apostasy occured way before the completion of the King James Bible. Thank you for pointing out that Christendom believes in a different Jesus than Mormon Christians because we have different sources of revelation.

Bible translations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brief History of the King James Bible by Dr. Laurence M. Vance