Christians Only: The Book of Mormon

[Subduction Zone]

Yes the bible is the evidence. I completely trust its claims and its circular reasoning. Just like in science. Circular reasoning abounds ,and its ok . It all has to start with an axiom . Mine is ,the Bible comes from God, the bible is true and God cannot lie.

No, no, no. Circular reasoning is not allowed in the sciences.

By the way, if God cannot lie then the stories of Genesis are morality tales at best.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I read the bible and I believed it. Thats my claim . Take from that what you will . Odds on that I also don't believe what you believe about the bible. Mostly I speak to non Christians and they share the same pat answers from the internet . Rarely have they sincerely searched out the validity of the bible. Instead they are satisfied by clever websites run by atheists who think they are disproving the bible . I know because I used to do this before I was a believer.

You are probably wrong. Many have searched out the Bible. They merely did not use the poor reasoning of many Christians.

 

[Jane.Doe]

I believe what the bible says ,absolutely.

WHY DO YOU?

Believing the Bible because the Bible says you should is no different than believing the Quran because the Quran said you should. For me, that’s insufficient epistemology and faith/logic development.

Where are you real tests? Where is Living God Himself in your faith? Thus far I’ve asked and asked, but you’ve only told me about you following men’s claims. Please show me there is more to your ( Berry’s) faith.

 

[sojourner]

Well if you want to play the ' my scholars are better than your scholars game ' . I usually only hear this said from fringe radicals on the Internet. No one serious actually comes to that conclusion your making. Its up there with ' Jesus never even existed ' ' Flat earth ' and the moon landing was fake ' . There is nothing wrong with circular reasoning. Most claim s ultimately are circular. I start with the axiom that the bible is true ,it comes from God and God cannot lie . Its also ' self evident ' . I've never been a radical skeptic . I listen to those who come up with the silliest criteria for proof and what they believe they don't use the same standard its funny .

“There’s nothing wrong with circular reasoning,”. Except that circular reasoning isn’t a truth-teller.

I assume that the texts are what they are and say what they say. Ancient texts written in foreign languages by multiple authors. They are neither infallible, nor did they drop out of the sky. They have to be read critically and exegeted clearly. Only then can we get at what they’re saying with any degree of truth and without fooling ourselves.

 

[Subduction Zone]

WHY DO YOU?

Believing the Bible because the Bible says you should is no different than believing the Quran because the Quran said you should. For me, that’s insufficient epistemology and faith/logic development.

Where are you real tests? Where is Living God Himself in your faith? Thus far I’ve asked and asked, but you’ve only told me about you following men’s claims. Please show me there is more to your ( Berry’s) faith.

I often ask believers how they test their beliefs. They never seem to have a proper answer. They merely use the same reasoning that they attack other religions for using.

EDIT: In light of the previous post I should state that it is literalists that can not properly support their beliefs. My disagreement with some is much weaker.

 

[John1.12]

“There’s nothing wrong with circular reasoning,”. Except that circular reasoning isn’t a truth-teller.

I assume that the texts are what they are and say what they say. Ancient texts written in foreign languages by multiple authors. They are neither infallible, nor did they drop out of the sky. They have to be read critically and exegeted clearly. Only then can we get at what they’re saying with any degree of truth and without fooling ourselves.

Boy you make it complicated.

 

[John1.12]

“There’s nothing wrong with circular reasoning,”. Except that circular reasoning isn’t a truth-teller.

I assume that the texts are what they are and say what they say. Ancient texts written in foreign languages by multiple authors. They are neither infallible, nor did they drop out of the sky. They have to be read critically and exegeted clearly. Only then can we get at what they’re saying with any degree of truth and without fooling ourselves.

We have an English translation.

 

[Jane.Doe]

We have an English translation.

That does zero to address the bigger questions posed.

 

[John1.12]

That does zero to address the bigger questions posed.

God can make himself known in English.

 

[Jane.Doe]

We have an English translation.

 

[Jane.Doe]

God can make himself known in English.

I would love to hear how God speaks to you and tells you the Bible is true.

 

[John1.12]

You are probably wrong. Many have searched out the Bible. They merely did not use the poor reasoning of many Christians.

I would love to hear how God speaks to you and tells you the Bible is true.

I can read .

 

[Jane.Doe]

I can read .

You can also read the Quran.

Such doesn’t answer my question.

 

[John1.12]

You can also read the Quran.

Such doesn’t answer my question.

Exactly. Then you make a informed decision to trust what you read .

 

[Jane.Doe]

Exactly. Then you make a informed decision to trust what you read .

Informed by what?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can read .

Me too. I understand how the interpretations of many Christians are wrong.

 

[sojourner]

Boy you make it complicated.

It is complicated. We’re reading texts from which we are separated by language, culture and time. They are a disparate collection of texts with varying authors, that have undergone extensive editing over the course of centuries. All those factors complicate things.

 

[sojourner]

We have an English translation.

Not good enough. Especially in the case of establishing authority.

 

[John1.12]

It is complicated. We’re reading texts from which we are separated by language, culture and time. They are a disparate collection of texts with varying authors, that have undergone extensive editing over the course of centuries. All those factors complicate things.

Nonsense . If any of that were true no one could understand it .

 

[John1.12]

It is complicated. We’re reading texts from which we are separated by language, culture and time. They are a disparate collection of texts with varying authors, that have undergone extensive editing over the course of centuries. All those factors complicate things.

Show me a verse which is complicated?