• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christless Christianity

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Like any other bumper sticker slogan, this oversimplifies to the point where the only rational response is :slap:

Bumper stickers may not be all that great, but the simplest thigns in life are often the most complex.

For example:

God is love
The golden rule
zn+1 = zn2 + c The Mandelbrot set


"Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.

The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.

He is complete because he does not serve himself."

The Tao Te Chin (chapter 7)

Mandelbrot_set.jpg
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
and like almost all Jews of the time, seething with hatred of the Romans.
Let's not go overboard. Jesus showed compassion and honor to the Centurion with the sick kid. He asked God to forgive them.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
He says he's here to bring fire, sword and war.
But not for the sake of those things. Those things happen as a reaction of the power base to his parabolic message against that power base.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The way I see it, Christianity is a religion of the creed, instead of the deed.

The whole "in this world and not of it" and "original sin" business makes it clear that according to Christianity, this world is miserable and hopeless, and all that matters is getting to heaven to be with Jesus.

Christianity doesn't seem concerned at all with what you actually do, just so long as you accept Jesus as your savior.

At least, that's the impression I get from many of the Christians I talk to on forums like these.
Isn't that just sad? Because it's not supposed to be like that at all!
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Like any other bumper sticker slogan, this oversimplifies to the point where the only rational response is :slap:
The best, most telling bumper sticker is "Jesus is my co-pilot."
Well, if Jesus isn't the captain of this ship, it's probably going in the wrong direction!

"I heart Sunday School" is good, too. Especially when it's on a rusty POS pickup truck with another bumper sticker that says, "I heart my pickup truck."

I also like "My boss is a Jewish carpenter."
I didn't know Christianity was a job. I thought it was a vocation.
 
The best, most telling bumper sticker is "Jesus is my co-pilot."
Well, if Jesus isn't the captain of this ship, it's probably going in the wrong direction!

"I heart Sunday School" is good, too. Especially when it's on a rusty POS pickup truck with another bumper sticker that says, "I heart my pickup truck."

I also like "My boss is a Jewish carpenter."
I didn't know Christianity was a job. I thought it was a vocation.

Well said my friend! Jesus is my co-pilot shows how Christless Christianity has become. WWJD is anti-Christian when you think about it. Beware, we might get "Left Behind"!
 

Heneni

Miss Independent
WWJD or "What would Jesus do" is actually anti-Christian. I believe true Christianity is about what Jesus actually did for us; therefore, we now are able to live a life of gratitude being reconciled to God, living for the glory of God in progressive growth. Mainstream Christianity tends to be humanistic in many ways. Mainstream Christianity still leaves mankind at the center of the universe. In many ways, contemporary Christianity makes man his own idol instead of worshipping God in His proper place.

Very true..frubals.!
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
So emulating Christ's example actually distances you from him rather than taking you closer to him? Eh?

The classic Christian lack of personal responsibility. He did it so they don't have to. Sounds like what I said earlier, despite sojourner's plea that it's not supposed to be like that.
 
Religion is slowly becoming more "secular" with each passing generation. We are so used to thinking of secular and theistic forces as being opposites and adversaries of each other, but it seems there is a lot more intermixing of these two than people initially think.

For every bin Laden or Fred Phelps in the world, there are countless other theists practicing (or believing, but not practicing) a sort of "diet" form of their parent religion, one that cobbles together religious and secular values in a sort of schizophrenic manner. Under close examination, however, these beliefs make no sense at all, but has been adopted out of convenience and for the sake of civility and social order.

I think the best example of this is the idea of "religious pluralism." In Western religions such as Islam and Christianity, there is really no theological justification for letting people believe as they may. In fact, Islam specifically calls for the domination of their faith across the world. I'll illustrate this issue with an analogy (let's assume Christianity is true here for the sake of arguement):

Say there was a man that was about to kill 1000 people, and you had the means to stop him. Would you? Of course, it would be your moral imperative to do so.

Now let's say this man was a preacher of a non-Christian belief, whether it be Islam, Hinduism, Atheism, etc. This man's persuasiveness will lead 1000 people away from Christianity. While this may not seem like a big deal, their turning away from their faith equates to their own spiritual death and damnation into hell. Whereas in the previous example the people would merely lose out on living in *this* world (and yet still be able to go to heaven), these 1000 people would be doomed to eternal torment, a fate far worse than murder.

Likewise, we have Christians and others that say that it's okay for people to be homosexual, even though the Bible explicitly declares this as an abomination. Or this whole Western notion of freedom via permissiveness (aka negative freedom), which goes against the idea of following God's law.

It seems that we are seeing religion slowly wither away, not in the sense of being gone completely, but in the sense of basically changing itself to conform to secular ideas, to the point where it becomes indistinguishable save for a few vestigial superstitions.
 

J Bryson

Well-Known Member
Of course, James 2:20 states that faith alone is insufficient, and that if you do not show works, then you do not truly have faith.
 
So emulating Christ's example actually distances you from him rather than taking you closer to him? Eh?

Good thought! Actually Christianity is not so much about emulating Christ but rather to die of self, and live to the glory of God. The Apostle Paul wrote that he no longer lives, but Christ lives in him. Modern day theology has made the Christian God into a self-help guru or cosmic Santa Claus. I think Christianity is about doing the will of God as compared to doing our own will.

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Gal 2:20
 
Religion is slowly becoming more "secular" with each passing generation. We are so used to thinking of secular and theistic forces as being opposites and adversaries of each other, but it seems there is a lot more intermixing of these two than people initially think.

For every bin Laden or Fred Phelps in the world, there are countless other theists practicing (or believing, but not practicing) a sort of "diet" form of their parent religion, one that cobbles together religious and secular values in a sort of schizophrenic manner. Under close examination, however, these beliefs make no sense at all, but has been adopted out of convenience and for the sake of civility and social order.

I think the best example of this is the idea of "religious pluralism." In Western religions such as Islam and Christianity, there is really no theological justification for letting people believe as they may. In fact, Islam specifically calls for the domination of their faith across the world. I'll illustrate this issue with an analogy (let's assume Christianity is true here for the sake of arguement):

Say there was a man that was about to kill 1000 people, and you had the means to stop him. Would you? Of course, it would be your moral imperative to do so.

Now let's say this man was a preacher of a non-Christian belief, whether it be Islam, Hinduism, Atheism, etc. This man's persuasiveness will lead 1000 people away from Christianity. While this may not seem like a big deal, their turning away from their faith equates to their own spiritual death and damnation into hell. Whereas in the previous example the people would merely lose out on living in *this* world (and yet still be able to go to heaven), these 1000 people would be doomed to eternal torment, a fate far worse than murder.

Likewise, we have Christians and others that say that it's okay for people to be homosexual, even though the Bible explicitly declares this as an abomination. Or this whole Western notion of freedom via permissiveness (aka negative freedom), which goes against the idea of following God's law.

It seems that we are seeing religion slowly wither away, not in the sense of being gone completely, but in the sense of basically changing itself to conform to secular ideas, to the point where it becomes indistinguishable save for a few vestigial superstitions.

Can you quote the Bible where you think homosexuality is called an abomination. Do you like to eat crab, lobster, or shrimp? Now shellfish consumption is defintely an abomination in Scripture.
 
Can you quote the Bible where you think homosexuality is called an abomination.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Lev.20:13

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. --Lev. 18:22
 
Last edited:
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I don't know about other readers, but "Christless Christianity" as a topic is as unprovacative as it is artless and boring. It simply isn't insightful to criticize Christianity in this way after many Christian denomenations are facing theological and philosophical questions in light of Neitzsche, Russell, and Darwin - not to mention existentialism and quantum physics.

But it turns out that Christless Christianity does not address any kind of constructive points, but again focuses Chrsitian apologetics on Christians rather than serving as a legitimizing force in a world where Christianity has proven useless and dangerous.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Good thought! Actually Christianity is not so much about emulating Christ but rather to die of self, and live to the glory of God. The Apostle Paul wrote that he no longer lives, but Christ lives in him. Modern day theology has made the Christian God into a self-help guru or cosmic Santa Claus. I think Christianity is about doing the will of God as compared to doing our own will.

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Gal 2:20

So in other words disavow the world and your fellow man? So being a honest, honorable, compassionate, and wholesome person is entirely irrelevant, and the only important thing is how well you can suck God's toes?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
So in other words disavow the world and your fellow man? So being a honest, honorable, compassionate, and wholesome person is entirely irrelevant, and the only important thing is how well you can suck God's toes?

No. According to many religions, surrenduring your will to the will of God will naturally lead to you being an honest, honorable, compassionate, and wholesome person.
 
Top