Christless Christianity

[angellous_evangellous]

Which is obviously a crock.

It's no more a crock than attempting to live a philosophical or contemplative life that is religionless.

Many have failed to live according to the most humane aspects of philosophy / ethics and religions, but there are also great successes.

 

[Poisonshady313]

No. According to many religions, surrenduring your will to the will of God will naturally lead to you being an honest, honorable, compassionate, and wholesome person.

So people should deny themselves the ability to grow as a person by allowing themselves to become puppets that take God for granted instead of showing love by willfully obeying His word?

That sucks.

 

[Christless Christianity]

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Lev.20:13

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. --Lev. 18:22

I think this is what contemporary Christanity tends to do. They take one verse out of context with the rest of Scripture and jump on a moral agenda crusade (witch hunt). You forgot to answer if you enjoy eating crab, shrimp, and lobster. Do you enjoy pork chops and bacon too? Do you keep the Sabbath Day holy? How about starting the moral agenda crusade against those who sleep with their wives during their menstrual period? Surley sleeping with your wives during their mestrual period is cleary an abomonation in Scripture too. Does the church stone disobedient children and those who commit adultery in the church as commanded in the Old Testament? There are so many abominations that we all commit as sinners. Therefore, the Scriptures must be understood through the lenses of the gospel.

Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.” - Leviticus 18

 

[Poisonshady313]

I think this is what contemporary Christanity tends to do. They take one verse out of context with the rest of Scripture and jump on a moral agenda crusade (witch hunt). You forgot to answer if you enjoy eating crab, shrimp, and lobster. Do you enjoy pork chops and bacon too? Do you keep the Sabbath Day holy? How about starting the moral agenda crusade against those who sleep with their wives during their menstrual period? Surley sleeping with your wives during their mestrual period is cleary an abomonation in Scripture too. Does the church stone disobedient children and those who commit adultery in the church? There are so many abominations that we all commit as sinners. Therefore, the Scriptures must be understood through the lenses of the gospel.

Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.” - Leviticus 18

There actually are people who live successfully according to these laws. Therefore, the gospels are unholy additions to God's law.

 

[Christless Christianity]

There actually are people who live successfully according to these laws. Therefore, the gospels are unholy additions to God's law.

Keeping the law perfectly? Do you believe God judges us on a scale on how many laws we are able to keep?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Now this puts the "evangelistic" in evangelistic Christianity.

Keeping the law perfectly? Do you believe God judges us on a scale on how many laws we are able to keep?

There are so many abominations that we all commit as sinners. Therefore, the Scriptures must be understood through the lenses of the gospel.

 

[M O N S T E R]

I think this is what contemporary Christanity tends to do. They take one verse out of context with the rest of Scripture and jump on a moral agenda crusade (witch hunt). You forgot to answer if you enjoy eating crab, shrimp, and lobster. Do you enjoy pork chops and bacon too? Do you keep the Sabbath Day holy? How about starting the moral agenda crusade against those who sleep with their wives during their menstrual period? Surley sleeping with your wives during their mestrual period is cleary an abomonation in Scripture too. Does the church stone disobedient children and those who commit adultery in the church as commanded in the Old Testament? There are so many abominations that we all commit as sinners. Therefore, the Scriptures must be understood through the lenses of the gospel.

Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.” - Leviticus 18

I'm an atheist.

 

[DallasApple]

The way I see it, Christianity is a religion of the creed, instead of the deed.

The whole "in this world and not of it" and "original sin" business makes it clear that according to Christianity, this world is miserable and hopeless, and all that matters is getting to heaven to be with Jesus.

Christianity doesn't seem concerned at all with what you actually do, just so long as you accept Jesus as your savior.

At least, that's the impression I get from many of the Christians I talk to on forums like these.

Really?

You are the one that would let someone breaking the law DIE of dehydration(or bleeding to death) in front of you not me.

I would give them water..YOU would say they knew what the risk's were so die then.

Unbelievable.

Love

Dallas

 

[Christless Christianity]

I'm an atheist.

Thanks for the information. Do you at least see how contemporary Christianity tends to take certain verses to jump on a political moral agenda, and ignore many others which do not fit in their moral agenda? I laugh at the traditional family value right wing agenda because most believers in the Old Testament would not fit into the traditonal family value mold.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Keeping the law perfectly? Do you believe God judges us on a scale on how many laws we are able to keep?

YouTube - Basic Soul-winning Demonstration Video (witnessing, gospel)

 

[Poisonshady313]

Keeping the law perfectly? Do you believe God judges us on a scale on how many laws we are able to keep?

Nobody's perfect. God does not demand perfection. God demands persistence, dedication, learning from and correcting one's mistakes. A person should be constantly learning and growing.

The law isn't a checklist. It's the way to live life.

And when you do the wrong thing, you acknowledge it, and change your behavior so that you no longer do the wrong thing.

But throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's too much, I can't handle it" isn't the way to come close to God.

I don't believe God is so cruel that He would give people an obligation that they were incapable of living up to.

I don't know where Christians got the idea that the law expects a person to be absolutely perfect.

 

[Father Heathen]

Thanks for the information. Do you at least see how contemporary Christianity tends to take certain verses to jump on a political moral agenda, and ignore many others which do not fit in their moral agenda?

Like denouncing homosexuality while stuffing their faces with pork and shrimp?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Thanks for the information. Do you at least see how contemporary Christianity tends to take certain verses to jump on a political moral agenda, and ignore many others which do not fit in their moral agenda? I laugh at the traditional family value right wing agenda because most believers in the Old Testament would not fit into the traditonal family value mold.

Indeed - "traditional" isn't what it used to be. And, in fact, never was.

 

[DallasApple]

Nobody's perfect. God does not demand perfection. God demands persistence, dedication, learning from and correcting one's mistakes. A person should be constantly learning and growing.

The law isn't a checklist. It's the way to live life.

And when you do the wrong thing, you acknowledge it, and change your behavior so that you no longer do the wrong thing.

But throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's too much, I can't handle it" isn't the way to come close to God.

I don't believe God is so cruel that He would give people an obligation that they were incapable of living up to.

I don't know where Christians got the idea that the law expects a person to be absolutely perfect.

I dont know..but most Mexicans are of Christian faith ..or whatever and YOU would have them die from NO WATER..Thats on purpous too.Just because they "broke the law".

Love

Dallas

 

[M O N S T E R]

Thanks for the information. Do you at least see how contemporary Christianity tends to take certain verses to jump on a political moral agenda, and ignore many others which do not fit in their moral agenda? I laugh at the traditional family value right wing agenda because most believers in the Old Testament would not fit into the traditonal family value mold.

Oh, I see it. I also see doctors who practice abortions being murdered. I see suicide bombers blowing up dozens of innocent people who have simply come together to do their shopping. I see hundreds dying unnecessarily in pilgrimages that turn into panic-stricken stampedes. I see national governments which pass laws to restrict the freedom and rights of women. I see people who shoot into gay nightclubs. I see teachers who try to burn crosses into their students' arms. I see teachers who train ten-year-old boys and intellectually disabled women to be mass murderers. I see terrorist recruiters who arrange for women to be raped in the knowledge that their families will then reject them. I see people who let their children die under prayer rather than seeking medical aid for them. I see people who extract money from the simple-minded by promising them favours in the afterlife, or healing in this one. I see blasphemy laws, and censorship, and privileging certain forms of sexual relationships and households over others.

I happen to think the best and simplest way to deal with this is to attack the root of all these issues: irrational, unjustified, superstitious belief; and to attack it aggressively with all the skill and passion at my disposal. But that's just the way I see it.

 

[DallasApple]

Like denouncing homosexuality while stuffing their faces with pork and shrimp?

Oh great..Another Christian bashing thread.

Some of the MEANEST people in my life are clearly athiest.Who HATE homosexuals and eat pork and shrimp.

Then they bash Christians ..

Love

Dallas

 

[Poisonshady313]

Really?

You are the one that would let someone breaking the law DIE of dehydration(or bleeding to death) in front of you not me.

I would give them water..YOU would say they knew what the risk's were so die then.

Unbelievable.

Love

Dallas

I wouldn't be there to see the dehydrating person because I have no business hanging around the border... and I wouldn't send anyone there because potential illegal border crossers would get the idea that it's ok to cross the border illegally.

And if someone is coming to harm me, I have no obligation to provide them with first aid care.

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh great..Another Christian bashing thread.

Some of the MEANEST people in my life are clearly athiest.Who HATE homosexuals and eat pork and shrimp.

Then they bash Christians ..

Love

Dallas

What on earth are are you babbling about?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Which is obviously a crock.

crock or not

it is at the heart of Judaism, Islam, christianity and many others



In Louisville, at the corner of Fourth and Walnut, in the center of the shopping district, I was suddenly overwhelmed with the realization that I loved all these people, that they were mine and I theirs, that we could not be alien to one another even though we were total strangers. It was like waking from a dream of separateness, of spurious self-isolation in a special world, the world of renunciation and supposed holiness. The whole illusion of a separate holy existence is a dream. Not that I question the reality of my vocation, or of my monastic life: but the conception of “separation from the world” that we have in the monastery too easily presents itself as a complete illusion …. We are in the same world as everybody else, the world of the bomb, the world of race hatred, the world of technology, the world of mass media, big business, revolution, and all the rest …. This sense of liberation from an illusory difference was such a relief and such a joy to me that I almost laughed out loud …. To think that for sixteen or seventeen years I have been taking seriously this pure illusion that is implicit in so much of our monastic thinking …. I have the immense joy of being man, a member of a race in which God Himself became incarnate. As if the sorrows and stupidities of the human condition could overwhelm me, now I realize what we all are. And if only everybody could realize this! But it cannot be explained. There is no way of telling people that they are all walking around shining like the sun.

–Thomas Merton (Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander)



There is none dwelling in the house but God.
When a man is awakened he
melts and perishes.
—Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi

The nature of being in tune with the infinite is this: comparing our soul to a string of an instrument, it is tied at both ends; one is the infinite, and the other is the finite. When a person is conscious all the time of the finite then he is tuned to the finite, while the one who is conscious of the infinite is tuned to the infinite. Being in tune with the former makes us limited, weak, hopeless, and powerless; but by being in tune with the latter we obtain the power and strength that will pull us through life in whatever adverse conditions may arise.


–From the Teachings of HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN

 

[Christless Christianity]

Nobody's perfect. God does not demand perfection. God demands persistence, dedication, learning from and correcting one's mistakes. A person should be constantly learning and growing.

The law isn't a checklist. It's the way to live life.

And when you do the wrong thing, you acknowledge it, and change your behavior so that you no longer do the wrong thing.

But throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's too much, I can't handle it" isn't the way to come close to God.

I don't believe God is so cruel that He would give people an obligation that they were incapable of living up to.

I don't know where Christians got the idea that the law expects a person to be absolutely perfect.

The God revealed in the Bible demands perfect law keeping. Scripture Cleary teaches this. It is not a debatable issue in the Bible but a clear essential teaching of the Christian Faith. If we can be reconciled to God through our own imperfect law keeping, Christ died in vain.

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousnesswere through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Gal 2:21