College Orders Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

[Mister Emu]

The biggest question is not what she believes about homosexuality and GID, but how, if at all, it affects her ability to counsel those in need.

The university needs to show that her beliefs would have a deleterious effect on her counseling to show that a possible dismissal is warranted.

 

[Magic Man]

If this girl is unable to separate her personal beliefs from professionalism, then she must be evicted, but she should not be evicted merely because of a her spiritual beliefs.

We already know the bold part is true. That's why they're expelling her from the program. They're not expelling her merely because of her spiritual beliefs.

 

[Magic Man]

The biggest question is not what she believes about homosexuality and GID, but how, if at all, it affects her ability to counsel those in need.

Yes, that is the real issue.

The university needs to show that her beliefs would have a deleterious effect on her counseling to show that a possible dismissal is warranted.

It sounds to me from the article like that's the case. I have to doubt this would even come up if she hadn't already shown that her beliefs affect her performance.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree with the school. Since the program seems to be closely watched by the ACA the school would be putting it's own reputation on the line by graduating someone with such a strong prejudice. And since she is going into a counseling field, it is very likely that she is breaking the school's own codes and ethics for the program. And to state the obvious, she is not going into the correct field if she can't move past such a trivial issue.

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants. You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

I am going to be potentially working with child molesters, rapist, parents who walked out on their families, compulsive liars, thieves, and other people that I am not going to like. But also knowing that I am going into the field of psychology, I am very aware that I will not have the option to pick and choose whom I work with. I am even aware that I will potentially have crisis patients and I will have to be ready to answer a phone call at any time day or night. The girl should know that especially in a high school, she is going to have gay and transgender students coming to her for guidance and someone who will listen and not judge them, not too get a cold shoulder and be turned away.

You really can't force a person to accept what she does not want to. They SHOULD NOT throw her out.

She is going to be working with people who are going to be depending on her, that will need her, and it isn't her place to judge who she will take and who she won't, especially when it comes to the GLBT community. The APA has released report after report on how conditions, especially in school, need to improve for the GLBT crowd. She simply does not have the choice to pick and choose.
On the terms of academics, the school does have the right to dismiss her. She is not living up to their standards, to their expectations, and dismissing her is better than letting her finish school and not award her with a degree. Also graduating someone who is open about their prejudice will hurt the school's image.

I may be mistaken, but I believe a counselor can choose to refuse a case as long as there is someone else available, capable and willing to deal with that person instead.

I am actually not sure. I haven't studied up on the laws on that. However, it won't get you too far if you don't take patients for some reason. All I've actually ever heard about the subject is from one of my teachers who said "you will be working with people that you just are not going to like." Now I do know you can dismiss patients if you have a good enough reason. And you can send a patient to another doctor/therapist if you don't feel you can handle the case. But as far as turning down people, I'm not sure about the legalities, but it's unethical, unprofessional, and it will likely lead her to a road of getting fired from many jobs, and probably more lawsuits, which eventually will mean that no one will hire her.

 

[McBell]

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants. You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

Please present the documentation that says she has the RIGHT to any career she wants.

 

[ChristineES]

Please present the documentation that says she has the RIGHT to any career she wants.

I am NOT repeating my apology that I only had half the story.

 

[Mister Emu]

It sounds to me from the article like that's the case. I have to doubt this would even come up if she hadn't already shown that her beliefs affect her performance.

We can't be sure of that, at least not from the article posted.

The school does not have to change their standards because some one wants to be a doctor but refuses to meet the standards.
Regardless of the reason they refuse to meet the standards.

Depends on the standard, if we are talking about the rejection of religious belief as a standard for getting a degree you are getting into a sticky situation, and it would seem you would have to show that that belief would of necessity cause a problem that would warrant discriminating against people who held those beliefs.

 

[Muffled]

The school is in the wrong and is perfoming a clear discrimination against a student with Christian beliefs. The school claims it is following the counseling code of ethics but that is only a defense subterfuge since the code of ethics never requires a person to believe in homoseuality only to refrain from discriminating against such a person.

Frankly I never would attend a secular school for counselling since they are already messed up themselves. When I needed to go for counselling, I found a Christian counsellor for the same reason. The unfortunate reality is that school counsellors are apt to be put on the spot by current politics unless it is a Christian school of course.

 

[Muffled]

This is similar to a case recently that was won by the school. When I first read the OP I thought it was the same case.

In the just completed case, the graduate was in the active counseling stage of her program, where she worked in the University counseling office as a counselor. A student came in suffering from depression (and might have been suicidal, it was implied in the post but I didn't see it in the actual article), and because that student had previously been counseled on a relationship issue (homosexual relationship) the graduate REFUSED to work with the depressed student, simply because he was gay. Because treating him for depression would have "affirmed" his gay lifestyle or some such nonsense.

I would agree with that dismissal. Christianity requires those who serve to serve all people with the love that Jesus displays for the sinful. It was an obvious case of discrimination.

 

[Muffled]

Agreed. It would be nice to think no one would have these ridiculous views on things like homosexuality, but the best we can hope for is that anyone with those views either stays out of counseling or social work, or at least keeps their opinions to themselves and helps their clients as well as any counselor can be expected to.

BS that won't keep the wicked from counselling their wicked views.

 

[Muffled]

Who's rights are being violated? Do you think people should not have to meet the requirements of their program?

Does the school announce in their course description that Christian views are not welcome. If they don't then they are either discriminating or false advertising.

 

[Magic Man]

We can't be sure of that, at least not from the article posted.

No, we can't be sure, but it seems to me highly likely from what the story does tell us. There is the chance that that is not the case, though.

 

[Panda]

If your views were correct doctors would still be bleeding patients to make them well. The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill. The people using the hammer are the ones who don't recognize that fact.

Are you calling me mentally and emotionally ill?

 

[Panda]

Does the school announce in their course description that Christian views are not welcome. If they don't then they are either discriminating or false advertising.

No but they do say the follow the code of conduct for the profession. This student fails to meet the professional criteria for the field which also means she fails the requirements of the course.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Depends on the standard, if we are talking about the rejection of religious belief as a standard for getting a degree you are getting into a sticky situation, and it would seem you would have to show that that belief would of necessity cause a problem that would warrant discriminating against people who held those beliefs.

Why the qualifier "religious"?

And why does it need to be demonstrated that the belief will necessarily cause a problem? Don't universities have the right to withhold degrees/diplomas from students who have a fundamental misunderstanding of the course material?

Also, couldn't jeopardizing the program's accreditation be considered "causing a problem" all by itself?

 

[LuisDantas]

If your views were correct doctors would still be bleeding patients to make them well. The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill. The people using the hammer are the ones who don't recognize that fact.

Out of curiosity, how did you come to those conclusions?

 

[Kerr]

If your views were correct doctors would still be bleeding patients to make them well. The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill. The people using the hammer are the ones who don't recognize that fact.

This attitude is exactly the kind of attitude that would make someone inappropriate as a councelor.

And no, doctors would not resort to such primitive methods. They have standards to live up to. If they don´t they have no business being a doctor. Which was why this student was dismissed. At last that is the impression I get out of this thread.

 

[Duck]

This attitude is exactly the kind of attitude that would make someone inappropriate as a councelor.

And no, doctors would not resort to such primitive methods. They have standards to live up to. If they don´t they have no business being a doctor. Which was why this student was dismissed. At last that is the impression I get out of this thread.

She hasn't actually been dismissed yet. She is suing the school so that she doesn't have to do extra homework and take classes intended to try and change her viewpoint about LGBT people that may come to her for counseling. Currently, as far as I can tell, she is an advocate of so called "reparative" therapy for LGBT people, and feels that LGBTs suffer from "identity confusion". She bases these beliefs not on scientific or psychological data but on the bible. She feels that following the ACA and APA guidelines for the profession she wishes to engage in is 'religious discrimination'.

 

[Mister Emu]

Why the qualifier "religious"?

Because it is a public institution, and they cannot discriminate on grounds of religion.

And why does it need to be demonstrated that the belief will necessarily cause a problem? Don't universities have the right to withhold degrees/diplomas from students who have a fundamental misunderstanding of the course material?

Because if they can't show that it causes a serious problem, then it is just discrimination against a religion.
Well, the article said she showed no lack of understanding of the course material, that her issues were not academic in nature, but a question of certain beliefs which she had espoused. Also, if the course material is, with out need, discriminatory against religion it is illegal.

 

[McBell]

Because it is a public institution, and they cannot discriminate on grounds of religion.


Because if they can't show that it causes a serious problem, then it is just discrimination against a religion.
Well, the article said she showed no lack of understanding of the course material, that her issues were not academic in nature, but a question of certain beliefs which she had espoused. Also, if the course material is, with out need, discriminatory against religion it is illegal.

Seems to me that she believes that homosexuality is a negative lifestyle choice using only her religious beliefs to support it.
Add to this the fact that she advertises that she believes as such...