College Orders Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

[ChristineES]

I am sure that some people don't even get to know those that don't fit into their little categories. I have found that people are just people no matter what.

 

[Comicaze247]

If your views were correct doctors would still be bleeding patients to make them well. The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill. The people using the hammer are the ones who don't recognize that fact.

Well, the article said she showed no lack of understanding of the course material, that her issues were not academic in nature, but a question of certain beliefs which she had espoused. Also, if the course material is, with out need, discriminatory against religion it is illegal.

The problem is, judging by the statements in her lawsuit, it's clear that her beliefs will hinder her ability to adhere to the ACA Code of Ethics. Lesbians/Gays/Bisexuals/Transgendered already suffer from a society where most people view them as immoral abominations, which is probably one reason why they're going to see a counselor in the first place. They don't need another person telling them that there's something "wrong" with them when they probably already feel that way. Doing that, counseling and functioning under that premise, already violates the ACA Code of Ethics:

http://www.counseling.org/Resources/CodeOfEthics/TP/Home/CT2.aspx

Introduction
Counselors encourage client growth and development in ways that foster the interest and welfare of clients and promote formation of healthy relationships. Counselors actively attempt to understand the diverse cultural backgrounds of the clients they serve. Counselors also explore their own cultural identities and how these affect their values and beliefs about the counseling process.
. . .
A.1.a. Primary Responsibility
The primary responsibility of counselors is to respect the dignity and promote the welfare of clients.

. . .

A.4. Avoiding Harm and Imposing Values
...
A.4.b. Personal Values
Counselors are aware of their own values, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors and avoid imposing values that are inconsistent with counseling goals. Counselors respect the diversity of clients, trainees, and research participants.

If it is her true belief that being lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgendered is a case of "identity confusion," if she believes this to her very core, if her convictions are really that strong, then it's extremely likely that she will act that way with her clients, which would be in violation of the Code of Ethics. And if the school's faculty wants to follow that Code of Ethics themselves, then they have the responsibility to not allow her to get the degree. If they did, they would be putting themselves at great risk. If somewhere down the line, she were to include her own beliefs in her treatment programs with her clients and she got enough complaints from them, then it would reflect badly on the school as well. They're not preventing her from getting a counseling degree. They're preventing her from getting one from them and, therefore, representing them. That would be like allowing the Westboro Baptist Church to represent the whole of the Christian faith.

And just because she had no lack of understanding of the course material doesn't mean that she agrees with it. Just because I personally think that most of Freud's theories are absolute crap doesn't mean that I don't know what they are.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I like what Alfred Adler (one of the founding fathers of psychology) said on the subject of homosexuality.

A young psychologist, Elizabeth McDowell, who was receiving supervision from Adler came to him with concerns about a young man who was "living in sin" with an older man in New York City.

Adler asked her "is he happy, would you say?"
"Oh yes," McDowell replied.
Adler then stated "Well, why don't we leave him alone."

 

[The Neo Nerd]

From the American Psychological Association

Sexual Orientation, Homosexuality,and Bisexuality

What Is Sexual Orientation?

Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

More from the American Psychological Association

Guidelines for Psychotherapy with Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Clients

The assessment and treatment of lesbian, gay, and bisexual clients can be adversely affected by therapists’ explicit or implicit negative attitudes. For example, when homosexuality and bisexuality are consciously regarded as evidence of mental illness, a client’s homosexual or bisexual orientation is apt to be viewed as a major source of the client’s psychological difficulties even when sexual orientation has not been presented as a problem .

When psychologists are unaware of their negative attitudes, the effectiveness of psychotherapy can be compromised by heterosexist bias.

Heterosexism pervades the language, theories, and psychotherapeutic interventions of psychology. When heterosexual norms for identity, behavior, and relationships are applied to lesbian, gay, or bisexual clients, their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors may be misinterpreted as abnormal, deviant, and undesirable.

It can be seen from the above passages that the APA sees homophobia or heterosexism is damaging to the therapy process as a whole.

Because many psychologists have not received sufficient current information regarding lesbian, gay, and bisexual clients, psychologists are strongly encouraged to seek training, experience, consultation and/or supervision to ensure competent practice with these populations when necessary.

According to the Ethics Code, psychologists "are aware of culture, individual, and role differences, including those due to … sexual orientation … and try to eliminate the effect on their work of biases based on [such] factors". Hence, psychologists are encouraged to use appropriate methods of self-exploration and self-education (e.g., consultation, study, and formal continuing education) to identify and ameliorate preconceived biases about homosexuality and bisexuality.

It can be seen from the above passages that the APA encourages its members to seek help in eliminating their gender biases so as they provide proper care to their clients.

So it can seen that the gender biases in the girl mentioned is against the standards set out by APA and that the steps taken by the university are within the recommendations set out.

Personally i strongly accept this girls right to have these biases. But not her right to (willfully or not) inflict these biases on emotionally/psychologically vulnerable or suggestive clients.

-Q

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I know i'm flooding so this is my last one.

This is a bit on the APAs views on sexual orientation change therapy.

Insufficient evidence to support sexual orientation change efforts

"There really is no evidence that orientation can change, [or that you can change] who you're attracted to or who you fall in love with," she said.


In addition, some participants in sexual orientation change efforts reported an exacerbation of distress and depression when such efforts failed, she said.

 

[Jeremiah]

I may be mistaken, but I believe a counselor can choose to refuse a case as long as there is someone else available, capable and willing to deal with that person instead.

I know at my job if I refuse to help a customer due to their sexual orientation I would be fired.

 

[Jeremiah]

If your views were correct doctors would still be bleeding patients to make them well. The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill. The people using the hammer are the ones who don't recognize that fact.

"The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill."

What a horrible view to have.

 

[doppelganger]

Doing a counselling degree myself one of the big ideas they teach is a concept called "unconditional positive regard"

This means accepting the person for who they are without judgement.

Any therapeutic technique that doesn't etch that idea in stone stands a good chance of doing more harm than healing.

 

[Punnchy]

She should be expelled, she'll make bad judgement calls based on her personal beliefs if she's allowed to obtain the degree.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Was this posted?

http://www.telladf.org/userdocs/KeetonComplaint.pdf

Was just going through that link:

In certain of her classes in the counseling program, Miss Keeton has communicated
in class discussion as well as written assignments her religiously-informed views of gender and
sexuality.

And that is simply not good enough. It should be wholly-informed. Not just partially.

In certain personal conversations away from the classroom with friends and
colleagues, Miss Keeton has shared her Christian faith, and commended its virtues and benefits.
In the course of such discussions, she has also communicated Christian viewpoints on matters
related to sexual ethics.

Ok. So she's Christian. The way they've worded this seems to suggest that they think that because she's a Christian her beliefs are ok. That's just ridiculous!

Further, she has
expressed her view that homosexuality is a “lifestyle,” not a “state of being.”

View as she may, it's still completely wrong.

Anyone who has such bias in their views, such pre-conceptions, cannot possibly be an unbiased, reasonable source for counselling. It just doesn't work like that. Especially after reading:

Faculty have also received unsolicited reports from another student that [Miss
Keeton] has relayed her interest in conversion therapy for GLBTQ populations,
and she has tried to convince other students to support and believe her views.

She did not want to be subject to the terms of the second portion of the remediation
plan, which required her to be subject to a sustained program of proselytizing that was
overtly hostile to her Christian convictions, which no other student was required to endure in order
to remain in good standing in the program.

If the program was "overtly hostile towards her convictions", wouldn't that mean it was true vice versa as well? That her convictions would be overtly hostile toward the program, and therefore would undermine her ability to counsel effectively, fairly, and properly?


It strikes me as strange that they constantly repeat "her Christian views" or "her biblical views" as though adding "Christian" or "biblical" somehow makes her views ok and that she should be allowed to continue the course simply because her views are Christian and biblical.

However, Miss Keeton did state that she would not in a counseling session agree
with the propriety of homosexual relations, nor affirm the propriety of a client pursuing a life of,
and a self-definition based on, homosexual relations.

And there you have it. That is not behaviour that is at all allowed in a counselor. That's the simple matter of it.

This is not a matter of being targeted because she's of a particular religion, or of a particular belief set. It's simply a matter of the fact that her personal beliefs are so strong that they obviously will have an effect on her abilities as a profession, and her unwillingness to change. Remove the words "biblical" and "Christian" throughout the entire article and it still makes sense. The problem is not her christian beliefs. The problem is her beliefs, and how that will effect the lives of others in such a profession.

Each of the defendants named in individual capacities has had and continues to
have personal involvement in the deprivation of Miss Keeton’s right to be free from arbitrary and
discriminatory action based upon her speech, beliefs, and religious exercise, and each of such
defendants has acted and continues to act individually and in concert to deprive her of these rights.

*facepalm*

rofl

This thing also mentioned something about "irreperable damage to her reputation" caused by the defendants. Is she so stupid to realise that she's doing that all by herself, she doesn't even need their help to do so! Trying to sue them is doing plenty! What kind of employer would want to offer her a job as a counsellor with the beliefs she has, because now half the world is going to know exactly what those beliefs are! LOL!

 

[Comicaze247]

I know at my job if I refuse to help a customer due to their sexual orientation I would be fired.

Actually, it's more of an ethical obligation for the counselor to refer the client to another counselor if they believe that either they can't help the client or that another counselor could better help the client. It's part of the Code of Ethics for a counselor to know their limits.

 

[839311]

This thing also mentioned something about "irreperable damage to her reputation" caused by the defendants. Is she so stupid to realise that she's doing that all by herself, she doesn't even need their help to do so! Trying to sue them is doing plenty! What kind of employer would want to offer her a job as a counsellor with the beliefs she has, because now half the world is going to know exactly what those beliefs are! LOL!

Perhaps if she wins her suit and is awarded enough compensation, she would have enough money to retire and not have to worry about that lol. Who knows, maybe thats what she'll do. If she truly has a desire to find a job, I have no doubt in my mind that because of her lawsuit she will have many job offers placed before her. Many employers agree with her, and would like to have a 'famous' person around the office.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

After reading through the pdf link, it is very clear that it is not a case of the school discriminating against her beliefs, but the school saying they do not have faith in her to live up to their standards for counseling. It states that she was very clear about her views in and outside of the class room, said she would refuse to acknowledge homosexuality, believes homosexuality is an identity crisis (which homosexuality was removed from the DSM), and she tried to convince people to join her little reprogramming therapy crusade. This goes leans heavily against at least APA standards, which not condone conversion therapy, attempting to sway people into following a treatment that doesn't work, and making your prejudices clear.
And the school has their own reputation to look out for. What do you think will happen to the schools image if they graduate someone who is constantly getting fired for her refusal to treat homosexuals and transgendered individuals with dignity?

 

[Cypress]

The reality is that without Jesus a person is already mentally and emotionally ill.

You cannot state that Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews are mentally and emotionally ill just because they do not believe in Jesus. :areyoucra
Somehow this case remembers me of that bus driver who sued his employer for fireing him because he refused to drive a woman to a clinic where abortions were done (discussed in another thread on forum).
Worls gets more crazy every day, really...
Prediction: Next case will be that of a biology teacher who refuses to teach evolution because he/she believes in intelligent design.

 

[McBell]

Prediction: Next case will be that of a biology teacher who refuses to teach evolution because he/she believes in intelligent design.

to late:

Rod LeVake's Brief Career Teaching Biology
​

 

[Cypress]

to late:

Rod LeVake's Brief Career Teaching Biology
​

:faint:

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Link



So, what do we think? Does the school have the right to take this action? Are they wrong for trying to expel her from the program?

SEE ya, bye-bye!

 

[Duck]

Was just going through that link:

And that is simply not good enough. It should be wholly-informed. Not just partially.

Ok. So she's Christian. The way they've worded this seems to suggest that they think that because she's a Christian her beliefs are ok. That's just ridiculous!


View as she may, it's still completely wrong.

Anyone who has such bias in their views, such pre-conceptions, cannot possibly be an unbiased, reasonable source for counselling. It just doesn't work like that. Especially after reading:




If the program was "overtly hostile towards her convictions", wouldn't that mean it was true vice versa as well? That her convictions would be overtly hostile toward the program, and therefore would undermine her ability to counsel effectively, fairly, and properly?


It strikes me as strange that they constantly repeat "her Christian views" or "her biblical views" as though adding "Christian" or "biblical" somehow makes her views ok and that she should be allowed to continue the course simply because her views are Christian and biblical.


And there you have it. That is not behaviour that is at all allowed in a counselor. That's the simple matter of it.

This is not a matter of being targeted because she's of a particular religion, or of a particular belief set. It's simply a matter of the fact that her personal beliefs are so strong that they obviously will have an effect on her abilities as a profession, and her unwillingness to change. Remove the words "biblical" and "Christian" throughout the entire article and it still makes sense. The problem is not her christian beliefs. The problem is her beliefs, and how that will effect the lives of others in such a profession.



*facepalm*

rofl

This thing also mentioned something about "irreperable damage to her reputation" caused by the defendants. Is she so stupid to realise that she's doing that all by herself, she doesn't even need their help to do so! Trying to sue them is doing plenty! What kind of employer would want to offer her a job as a counsellor with the beliefs she has, because now half the world is going to know exactly what those beliefs are! LOL!

The reason that her "christian" and "biblical" views were brought up so often in the suit is to try and establish that the school is acting with bias against her based strictly on her religious views -> she is the victim of discrimination based on religion.

 

[Smoke]

Actually, it's more of an ethical obligation for the counselor to refer the client to another counselor if they believe that either they can't help the client or that another counselor could better help the client. It's part of the Code of Ethics for a counselor to know their limits.

Well, I wish we knew the context in which "reparative therapy" was discussed. If she's an advocate of that kind of malpractice, I don't think we can have any real confidence that she would recognize her limits at all. Judging from the way this usually plays out, she and others would use her degree as evidence that there was some scientific basis for practices that are unprofessional, unscientific, and extremely harmful.