College Orders Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

[Smoke]

You really can't force a person to accept what she does not want to. They SHOULD NOT throw her out.

No, they can't force her to believe anything other than what she believes, nor should they try to. What they should do is to maintain the standards of the profession, and deal with her refusal to meet those standards accordingly.

 

[ChristineES]

What she doesn't want to accept is something necessary to meet the code of ethics of her program. If she wasn't willing to follow the code of ethics required for the curriculum, she shouldn't have entered the program.

I guess we have to violate someone's rights for another person's. I guess I knew someday it would come to that.

 

[LuisDantas]

You really can't force a person to accept what she does not want to. They SHOULD NOT throw her out.

You realize that forcing people to accept what they do not want to is exactly what the school fears she will attempt to do?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I guess we have to violate someone's rights for another person's. I guess I knew someday it would come to that.

Who's rights are being violated? Do you think people should not have to meet the requirements of their program?

 

[Smoke]

I guess we have to violate someone's rights for another person's. I guess I knew someday it would come to that.

It's not a question of rights. It's a question of professional standards and professional competence.

She does not have a right to receive a degree she refuses to earn.

 

[Panda]

I think the university are right about this. She is unable to meet the requirements set by the course and the profession. She should have checked this out before she applied to do this course it is her fault for not looking up the requirements of the course beforehand.

 

[sojourner]

The DSM does not list homosexual orientation as an abnormality. Therefore, I don't see how a counselor, whose discipline should be psychology, could simply dismiss the DSM.

 

[LuisDantas]

I guess we have to violate someone's rights for another person's. I guess I knew someday it would come to that.

I fail to see how this would be the case here, Christine. Is there some reason why that student must be accepted by the school even if she fails to fulfill its expectations?

 

[ChristineES]

It's not a question of rights. It's a question of professional standards and professional competence.

She does not have a right to receive a degree she refuses to earn.

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants. You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

 

[linwood]

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants. You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

So you believe a student of medicine who did not believe in anti-biotics should be allowed to receive their doctorate?

They can always just send any patients who need anti-biotics to a doctor who will prescribe them after all.

 

[Smoke]

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants. You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

ASU isn't barring her from pursuing her dream; they're refusing to re-write their curriculum to meet her unprofessional demands. If she's unable or unwilling to meet professional standards, I'm sure she could find a Christian school that would not require her to meet professional standards.

"The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."​

 

[Comicaze247]

The school is in the right. You wouldn't want a medical school to give out a degree and a license to someone who would allow their prejudices to get in the way of saving someone's life, would you?

If she doesn't meet the requirements (i.e.: adhering to their established Code of Ethics), then she doesn't deserve the degree. Just like if a medical doctor were to not follow the Hippocratic Oath, they don't deserve to practice.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, counseling isn't about your comfort. It's about your client's comfort.

 

[ChristineES]

So you believe a student of medicine who did not believe in anti-biotics should be allowed to receive their doctorate?

They can always just send any patients who need anti-biotics to a doctor who will prescribe them after all.

And you said I was irrational. That is not the same thing. What if she were to say she didn't like liberals (and she was a conservative) or vice versa, would they still throw her out?

 

[ChristineES]

ASU isn't barring her from pursuing her dream; they're refusing to re-write their curriculum to meet her unprofessional demands. If she's unable or unwilling to meet professional standards, I'm sure she could find a Christian school that would not require her to meet professional standards.

"The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."​

OK, I understand now. Thanks for clearing it up, Bill. You are a voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[Comicaze247]

And you said I was irrational. That is not the same thing. What if she were to say she didn't like liberals (and she was a conservative) or vice versa, would they still throw her out?

Political views are nothing like gender identities (or ethnicity, nationality, etc.). The point is, a counselor has to be objective.

 

[LuisDantas]

I see it as a violation of her rights to be a student in the career field she wants.

Is that an inate right, however? People don't have complete freedom of choice of career. It takes appropriate skills and often enough even physical capability. One can't be an airplane pilot if he is daltonic, for instance.

While she presents the case as one of religious discrimination, the text of the news implies that it is much more a matter of plain inadequacy to the psychological profile demanded by such a career.

See for instance this extract;

"The faculty identifies Miss Keeton's views as indicative of her improper professional
disposition to persons of such populations," the lawsuit reads.

In a statement to FoxNews.com, Augusta State University officials declined to comment specifically on the litigation, but said the university does not discriminate on the basis of students' moral, religious, political or personal views or beliefs.

"The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."

The Code of Ethics prohibits counselors from discriminating based on a number of factors, including gender identity and sexual orientation. "Counselors do not discriminate against clients, students, employees
, supervisees, or research participants in a manner that has a negative impact on these persons," the code says.

Keeton's lawsuit alleges that the university's remediation plan noted Keeton's "disagreement in several class discussions and in written assignments with the gay and lesbian 'lifestyle,'" as well as Keeton's belief that those "lifestyles" are cases of identity confusion.

If Keeton fails to complete the plan, including additional reading and the writing of papers describing the impact on her beliefs, she will be expelled from the Counselor Education Program, the lawsuit claims.

Keeton has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the "result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces," according to the suit.

"She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created," the lawsuit reads. "Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

Have you ever befriended a transexual? They have a hard enough time with people that are not expected to know better. If the school's Code of Ethics has no place for the kind of counselor that would pressure one into "accepting" its "true gender", I say more power to them.

Quite frankly, I will go a step further and say that if she really believes in what she is claiming than she is clearly unfit to be a counselor, even if the school did not agree with me. A counselor is supposed to be capable of accepting people as they are to some degree, and transexuality is one of the least difficult things to accept in people.

You don't have to accept everyone in order to be a good counselor. Her beliefs does not mean she will not be a good counselor and it doesn't mean she will treat gays any differently than straights. And as someone else already stated she could refer a patient to someone else if she didn't feel comfortable with a situation.

Hopefully she would attempt to do that. Still, one doesn't always have that choice. Counselors don't have complete freedom about who or when they will attempt to support.

I'm in no position to say whether she would know how to respect non-heteros, but really, if she went through the trouble of actually doing those claims than I would rather not find out.

 

[ChristineES]

Political views are nothing like gender identities (or ethnicity, nationality, etc.). The point is, a counselor has to be objective.

I am sorry. I only heard one side of the story. I didn't realize she wanted to change the curriculum. Bill (Smoke) clarified that to me. :yes:

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

If someone is doing a counselling course they cannot display any prejudices they might have. Of course, they will still continue to hold them, but her opinions of LGBT lives should not come into it at all.

But they do come into the light of day. Whole Christian programs are built around turning Gays into straights.

 

[Southern Lass]

This girl has the right to her counseling degree despite her beliefs. What we need to know is whether or not she is allowing personal religious beliefs to interfere with professionalism. It really doesn't matter what our perspectives are as counselors. We are to focus on the client and the client's needs first and foremost. Spirituality doesn't even come into this until the client brings up spirituality.

If this girl is unable to separate her personal beliefs from professionalism, then she must be evicted, but she should not be evicted merely because of a her spiritual beliefs. She should have understood that she doesn't have to confront a client on differences in belief. She is there to use her counseling skills, period. Her beliefs aren't supposed to enter into it. The focus is on the client; therefore, why shouldn't this girl receive the green light to practice? The only reason is if she cannot practice appropriately and the burden of proving this is on the school, since they've called this woman onto the carpet.

 

[Comicaze247]

I am sorry. I only heard one side of the story. I didn't realize she wanted to change the curriculum. Bill (Smoke) clarified that to me. :yes:

No problem. I saw your post only after I'd already posted