comments on the Qur'an whether good or bad

[firedragon]

What's my agenda?

What ever your agenda is. Or those who interpret the Quran through the looking glass called ahadith written centuries after the narrator of the Quran.

 

[firedragon]

My only agenda is to prove Islam is false, not from God and a bad religion. I'm pretty out about that.

I know that.

But with such an agenda, you will only find ways to help it. Be it hadith or misrepresentations.

 

[Rival]

Its there. Look for them.

Of course not when it comes to names. Who is Abu Lahab. Who is Hamaan. Who is Idris, Shu'aib etc? That cannot be expected to be explained in the Quran. But you will come to know. Whats important is to get the message of the Quran.

Other teachings, the context is there.

Nevertheless, you cant measure the yardstick with the cloth. The Quran says men and women are equal in salvation, hadith says women are born defective.

Find me the context and meaning for this, why is it in the Qur'an? This is the entire surah.

1. Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!
2. No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
3. Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!
4. His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-
5. A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!

Also the Qur'an says this about women:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
4:34

 

[Rival]

What ever your agenda is. Or those who interpret the Quran through the looking glass called ahadith written centuries after the narrator of the Quran.

You do realise this condemns pretty much all mainstream Muslims, right?

 

[firedragon]

Find me the context and meaning for this, why is it in the Qur'an? This is the entire surah.

1. Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!
2. No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
3. Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!
4. His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-
5. A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!

Also the Qur'an says this about women:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
4:34

Not until you understand what I said Rival. I see no point.

Its there. Look for them.

Of course not when it comes to names. Who is Abu Lahab. Who is Hamaan. Who is Idris, Shu'aib etc? That cannot be expected to be explained in the Quran. But you will come to know. Whats important is to get the message of the Quran.

Other teachings, the context is there.

Nevertheless, you cant measure the yardstick with the cloth. The Quran says men and women are equal in salvation, hadith says women are born defective.

 

[Rival]

Not until you understand what I said Rival. I see no point.

Its there. Look for them.

Of course not when it comes to names. Who is Abu Lahab. Who is Hamaan. Who is Idris, Shu'aib etc? That cannot be expected to be explained in the Quran. But you will come to know. Whats important is to get the message of the Quran.

Other teachings, the context is there.

Nevertheless, you cant measure the yardstick with the cloth. The Quran says men and women are equal in salvation, hadith says women are born defective.

What exactly is the message (meaning, I asked) of this verse? Please tell me.

And why isn't the Qur'an expected to give context to names and tell us who people are? How does this make it a 'perfectly clear' book?

 

[firedragon]

You do realise this condemns pretty much all mainstream Muslims, right?

Of course. Should I be frightened?

 

[Jabar]

100% divine, and great revelation and instruction manual for mankind.

 

[Rival]

Of course. Should I be frightened?

Yes, many Muslims don't like those who are outside of the fold.

 

[firedragon]

What exactly is the message (meaning, I asked) of this verse? Please tell me.

Now that's a question Rival and this as a Muslim is my prerogative to expound upon. I do not wish to answer fleeting questions with no objectivity. Hope you understand.

1. Abd al-Uzza bin Ab al-Muttalib is said to be Abu Lahab because the Hadith says that was his nickname. Because of his charm etc.
2. Abu Lahab means father of flame. Cant it be a petaphor? How sure are you that its a proper name?
3. If it is meant as a name, did the real uncle of the prophets wife carry logs as a job or something? Think about it.
4. This is about a fire maker, patron of flame or flame maker. A trouble maker. Creator of hatred.
5. His wife carrying logs is a statement like fuel to the fire. That is why she is also admonished.
6. The flame maker, and his helper, both are guilty.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Yes, many Muslims don't like those who are outside of the fold.

We Muslims have personal experience of that Rival. Jesus was crucified, though he was a Jew. Tindale was hanged. Galili was punished for being a scientist. Martin Luther would tell you a great story. Avicena was called a heretic.

This is the world we live in.

 

[Rival]

1. Abd al-Uzza bin Ab al-Muttalib is said to be Abu Lahab because the Hadith says that was his nickname. Because of his charm etc.

You said no hadith.

 

[Jabar]

You said no hadith.

Hahahhaa.....

 

[firedragon]

You said no hadith.

Ill tell you what. Read that again and try to use your god given intellect to understand than to retort immediately.

1. Abd al-Uzza bin Ab al-Muttalib is said to be Abu Lahab because the Hadith says that was his nickname. Because of his charm etc.
2. Abu Lahab means father of flame. Cant it be a petaphor? How sure are you that its a proper name?
3. If it is meant as a name, did the real uncle of the prophets wife carry logs as a job or something? Think about it.
4. This is about a fire maker, patron of flame or flame maker. A trouble maker. Creator of hatred.
5. His wife carrying logs is a statement like fuel to the fire. That is why she is also admonished.
6. The flame maker, and his helper, both are guilty.

I didnt use hadith. If you read this while your eyes are open, you will see that I say that using the hadith to understand this is wrong.

I suggest that you dont show that in your hurry to slam a religion, you tend to jump before you use your human brain.

Cheers.

 

[Rival]

Hahahhaa.....

Calm your passion, mate.

 

[FearGod]

Find me the context and meaning for this, why is it in the Qur'an? This is the entire surah.

1. Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!
2. No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
3. Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!
4. His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-
5. A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!

And what is Yajooj and Majooj,

Yours is from the past, Yajooj and Majooj is still a mystery that has to happen in the end times, does that
mean the quran isn't clear?

Also the Qur'an says this about women:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
4:34

No we don't beat women and we treat them in kindness more than some drunken atheists do .

 

[Rival]

Ill tell you what. Read that again and try to use your god given intellect to understand than to retort immediately.

1. Abd al-Uzza bin Ab al-Muttalib is said to be Abu Lahab because the Hadith says that was his nickname. Because of his charm etc.
2. Abu Lahab means father of flame. Cant it be a petaphor? How sure are you that its a proper name?
3. If it is meant as a name, did the real uncle of the prophets wife carry logs as a job or something? Think about it.
4. This is about a fire maker, patron of flame or flame maker. A trouble maker. Creator of hatred.
5. His wife carrying logs is a statement like fuel to the fire. That is why she is also admonished.
6. The flame maker, and his helper, both are guilty.

I didnt use hadith. If you read this while your eyes are open, you will see that I say that using the hadith to understand this is wrong.

I suggest that you dont show that in your hurry to slam a religion, you tend to jump before you use your human brain.
Cheers.

I understood perfectly, but I want you to tell me the meaning of the surah.

What lesson are we supposed to take from it?

 

[Augustus]

• Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!

• No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!

• Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!

• His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-

• A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!

Does it not just seem like a warning that worldly gains will not help you in the next life? And by living an 'incorrect' life you are simply carrying the fuel for your own fire?

 

[firedragon]

I understood perfectly, but I want you to tell me the meaning of the surah.

What lesson are we supposed to take from it?

Lesson?

Dont create hatred. Or help the person who creates hatred.

If you understood perfectly, why would you say 'you said hadith'? What I did was to show you that the word Abu Lahab has a meaning. Translate it and you will find what the surah means.

 

[Rival]

Does it not just seem like a warning that worldly gains will not help you in the next life? And by living an 'incorrect' life you are simply carrying the fuel for your own fire?

Oh thank God. This is all I was looking for.

I'll kiss you in private, not public