Common ground.

[Trailblazer]

Religion in my country (UK) is.....
1. Stopping terminally ill patients in pain from asking their doctor to stop the suffering.
2. Resisting the legitimising of Humanist weddings (ie without the need for a second ceremony)
3. Christianity automatically has 20 seats in our second chamber - unelected, unrepresentative.
4. Religious schools are allowed to omit 'sensitive' topics from their curriculum.

Those come to mind, there are more

Thanks, I did not know any of that. That is not good for society at all.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's not a slap for the secular world because it applies to both the religious and the nonbelievers.

There was a strong implication that increased religion would result in people less invested in the material world. It seemed squarely aimed at people being 'not religious enough'.

Hence my comment, given that the secular world includes the religious.

Just an interesting opinion to volunteer in a thread nominally about conciliation.

 

[Secret Chief]

1. Stopping terminally ill patients in pain from asking their doctor to stop the suffering.

How does religion do this? Is it not simply illegal?

2. Resisting the legitimising of Humanist weddings (ie without the need for a second ceremony)

Not sure what you mean here? A Civil Ceremony is on an equal legal footing to a "traditional" wedding. Having had a Civil Ceremony recently there is only ONE requirement regarding religion and that is that there must NOT be ANY religious references. Other than that, the words and the music are all yours to choose (and there is no "second ceremony"). (I would have had CAFO by Animals As Leaders, but settled for Pachelbel's Canon).

 

[MikeF]

How can believers and atheists find common ground to be able to say.

You know, I see you as a human being, no matter if you believe in a religion or not.
I want to know you as a person, but if you believe or not, that is your private choice.

I can love you for just being you.

My wife and I married and have remained so for 32 years despite my non-belief and her belief in a God.

So that would be yes, in our case at least.

 

[Trailblazer]

My wife and I married and have remained so for 32 years despite my non-belief and her belief in a God.

So that would be yes, in our case at least.

How did that work out? Do you have a lot of other things in common?
If you raised kids, how did you raise them?

 

[Polymath257]

Most people want people to live in peace and harmony.
Why do you think it's not happening?
Perhaps if we can find common ground on an answer to that question, it can lead to more common understanding.

Most people want to live in peace and harmony, but what that means varies from person to person.

For example, a white supremacist might want to live in peace and harmony as long as there is nobody around of a different skin color.

A Christian might want to live in peace and harmony as long as their values are the ones governing everyone. The same for other theologies.

An atheist might want to live in peace and harmony as long as nobody comes knocking on their door trying to peddle religion.

Everyone wants to live in peace and harmony *on their terms*. But those terms are not the same for everyone.

 

[nPeace]

Most people want to live in peace and harmony, but what that means varies from person to person.

For example, a white supremacist might want to live in peace and harmony as long as there is nobody around of a different skin color.

A Christian might want to live in peace and harmony as long as their values are the ones governing everyone. The same for other theologies.

An atheist might want to live in peace and harmony as long as nobody comes knocking on their door trying to peddle religion.

Everyone wants to live in peace and harmony *on their terms*. But those terms are not the same for everyone.

So then, perhaps there isn't a common agreement on what really is peace and harmony?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Does that mean that speaking about our personal belief, should only happen together with those we already know have faith, and less about "converting non believers"
Is it better to let curious atheists come to us when they want to know what we believe?

When you meet somebody for the first time, why would you want to tell them about your beliefs, or ask them about theirs? Isn't it enough to learn their name, shake their hand, and then -- after a little small talk -- see where the relationship goes?

I never ask anybody about their religious beliefs, even after I've known them for years. In fact, I don't ask people about their political beliefs, either. I figure they have the right to vote as they'd like, just as I like to think I do, too.

Think about being out at a sports bar, and being introduced to somebody by a friend. There's a baseball game on, and while you may be very interested in the game, you notice that the fellow you were just introduced to isn't really watching very closely. Do you have to ask him his opinion of the sport, or have you already started to learn something about him? Later, maybe, when the game's over, the conversation turns to what you might eat, when you find out he's a vegetarian and there's not much on this bar's menu for him.

You see? You don't have to pry! Just spend some time talking (and listening -- you have one mouth and two ears, so use them in proportion!), observing, and waiting patiently to discover if you've anything in common. If you do, maybe the next time you meet you'll want to strike up a conversation -- but if not, perhaps you'll just politely say "hello" and move on to where people you'd rather be with are sitting.

Life is about a great big boatload more than just religious beliefs, and a healthy person isn't spending all their time trying to "figure out God." (Why would they? They are bound to fail.)

Try living and letting live. Everybody will be more comfortable. You may even find some friends.

By the way, this atheist has some very, very good friends who are believers. We get along fine, because they subject never comes up. We talk about the thousands of other things that interest us in common.

By the way, my best friend is a straight father of two beautiful children, and I'm a gay man. We deal with that dichotomy by not talking about it. What would be the point? Instead, I get to be the "crazy uncle" who buys his kids all the birthday and Christmas presents their mother would never approve of. It's quite a pleasure, actually.

 

[CG Didymus]

I very much doubt that.

If anything, that should be encouraged. There is a very real and significant need.

As if the beliefs of some, if not all, religions should be questioned. I agree. There is a significant need. Beliefs of some of the major religions, like Christianity and Islam, have caused tremendous harm. People have been killed because they didn't believe or didn't believe correctly. And what were those beliefs based on? Something written in a book saying, "God demands this", or "forbids this". Is it wrong to ask for more proof than that?

 

[MikeF]

How did that work out? Do you have a lot of other things in common?
If you raised kids, how did you raise them?

Yes, we had other things in common.

My wife was raised in Methodist church and growing up her belief was important to her, but mainly that there was something there and there was purpose. She mostly loves the services, ritual of it, and music. She considers me more moral or ethical than most believers and in her view, the God she imagines has no issues with me.

We have 4 kids and we settled on a Presbyterian church in town because of the minister. The kids went to preschool there, Sunday school until they didn't want to. In regards to my non-belief, I didn't push, just explained if asked. We stopped gong to church after the minister retried.

In essence, our kids were exposed to a variety of Christian flavors, from Unitarian to non-denominational evangelical to Catholic through extended family and let them know it was up to them to decide for themselves.

 

[Ponder This]

How can believers and atheists find common ground to be able to say.

You know, I see you as a human being, no matter if you believe in a religion or not.
I want to know you as a person, but if you believe or not, that is your private choice.

I can love you for just being you.

Common ground isn't something that forces people to accept a particular position; it's a position from where people can accept their differences.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You might not think so, but some people might get the feeling that a religion that says that it has replaced all the other religions, and that all the other religions in one way or another have corrupted their teachings, and that there is no doubt about it, there is one God and he has sent a new messenger that has the truth and teachings needed for today... They might be thought of as being on a "high" horse.

Can Baha'is put aside their need to spread the "word", to get along with and find the common ground with people they know will disagree with their religious beliefs?

In the Bhagavad-Gita, the Torah, New Testament, Buddhists Suttas, Zoroastrian scriptures, and Quran there are promises of a Teacher to come.

It’s what is written in their Holy Books.

So people how are they going to find out that the Promised One has come?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Still, put together a great peace march to any of those places and I'm sure there will be several people that will join with the Baha'is to go there and march for peace.

These are criminals. A police force is needed to take them out just like we police our own nations.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think it is better. I have found that there are always some curious atheists.

I don't know how to do that here, though. I don't know any atheists outside of forums. Do you have some advice on that? It sounds good, but how to carry that out in a forum like this?

 

[dybmh]

I can't speak for others but I don't think true religious people seeking power. They only seek wisdom inward

You're judging who is and who is not a "true religious" person? Good grief. and there's more to religion than gaining wisdom, and there's more opportunity for wisdom than going inward.

This is very small minded.

 

[DNB]

How can believers and atheists find common ground to be able to say.

You know, I see you as a human being, no matter if you believe in a religion or not.
I want to know you as a person, but if you believe or not, that is your private choice.

I can love you for just being you.

How is that possible - do you think that God is pleased or appreciates those who deny His existence, and causes others to disregard His precepts?
Atheists should be ashamed of themselves - for it is only the fool who says in his heart that there is no God.
Do you think that it is a light matter to defy God to His face, by claiming that He has no authority or power in regard to His creation?
There should never, ever be agreement, accord or amicability between a theist and an atheist, unless the theist has hope that the atheist is corrigible. Otherwise, let them know your indignation and displeasure - it's better to warn them as soon as possible and not give them a false sense of security i.e. that their convictions are not offensive, subversive and condeming.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know how to do that here, though. I don't know any atheists outside of forums. Do you have some advice on that? It sounds good, but how to carry that out in a forum like this?

In real life, I don't know what people believe unless the subject comes up in a conversation, but it usually doesn't.
On here, I just wait till atheists say something I might want to respond to or till an atheist asks me questions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, we had other things in common.

My wife was raised in Methodist church and growing up her belief was important to her, but mainly that there was something there and there was purpose. She mostly loves the services, ritual of it, and music. She considers me more moral or ethical than most believers and in her view, the God she imagines has no issues with me.

We have 4 kids and we settled on a Presbyterian church in town because of the minister. The kids went to preschool there, Sunday school until they didn't want to. In regards to my non-belief, I didn't push, just explained if asked. We stopped gong to church after the minister retried.

In essence, our kids were exposed to a variety of Christian flavors, from Unitarian to non-denominational evangelical to Catholic through extended family and let them know it was up to them to decide for themselves.

Thanks for explaining your experiences. I can see how this could work if a couple shares other things in common and if the religious spouse does not push religion on the other spouse.

My late husband of 37 years was a Baha'i as am I, and we both became Baha'is at an early age. Most Baha'is are married to Baha'is but not always. I know some Baha'is who are married to Christians although I don't know any who are married to nonbelievers. But that does not mean it never happens since I do not know very many Baha'is.

I hope to remarry and I had it in my head that I have to marry a Baha'i but that is a tall order finding one so I don't think that is going to happen. As an alternative, I am open to marrying a Christian or someone of another religion but I would probably prefer to marry an agnostic since there would be no conflict about whose religion is the true one and I believe agnosticism is a very respectable position since there is no proof that God exists.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shoghi Effendi

He was not a prophet even according to Bahais, and if he claims prophecy, then it is falsehood. People have views different from what he had.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see them more as a secret police, the way they hide in the shadows.

Nothing secret and nothing personal. Know about them here: Know Your Moderators!