Concerning the Hellfire Doctrine

[Rainbow Mage]

So you are saying that God only cares of you accept Jesus or not? After that you can lie, murder, steal, whatever? But if a non-Christian doesn't do those things, they still get to burn forever because they rejected Jesus? Where's the justice in that?

 

[fallingblood]

The problem is that you are not looking at the full spectrum of the topic. Focusing on the beliefs of one lady does not show what the beliefs of Christianity are. Some would state exactly what you said, that they can lie, cheat, murder, whatever and still go to heaven while all non-Christians burn in hell.

There are other Christians who argue that there is no hell and that all will go to heaven. Some believe that hell is simply a distancing from God, after he has revealed himself to you. Some believe that even Christians, unless they live a Christ-like life will burn in hell.

 

[Beta]

The real question is : should we listen to what PEOPLE say or what GOD says ?
I think that most people in their 'natural state' would rather listen to what THEY WANT to hear thus having THEIR OWN OPINIONS confirmed. People don't want to hear of having to change or having to become obedient , they much prefer to do their own thing. We have had this condition for the past 6000 years and it has become mankind's way of life. But from scripture we see that this state is to end and people will not be prepared for it because they don't hear God - don't want to hear.
So he will come as a thief and their house will be broken up.

 

[logician]

There is no such thing as sin, as sin is a transgression against a supposed god, and there is no god.

The ideas of heaven and hell are not even biblical well supported, and what refereces there are, are contradictory and confusing.

 

[Beta]

There is no such thing as sin, as sin is a transgression against a supposed god, and there is no god.

The ideas of heaven and hell are not even biblical well supported, and what refereces there are, are contradictory and confusing.

You are quite entitled to your opinion - as I am to mine whether or not there is a God. The natural man CAN NOT perceive the things of God so a discussion with you would be to no avail being totally biased from the outset .

 

[johnhanks]

You are quite entitled to your opinion - as I am to mine whether or not there is a God. The natural man CAN NOT perceive the things of God so a discussion with you would be to no avail being totally biased from the outset .

Whereas a discussion with an 'unnatural man' (?) would start with no bias whatsoever?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You are quite entitled to your opinion - as I am to mine whether or not there is a God. The natural man CAN NOT perceive the things of God so a discussion with you would be to no avail being totally biased from the outset .

The favorite fundy argument

 

[Buttercup]

You are quite entitled to your opinion - as I am to mine whether or not there is a God. The natural man CAN NOT perceive the things of God so a discussion with you would be to no avail being totally biased from the outset .

:biglaugh: You do see the irony in that statement I hope?

 

[Beta]

Whereas a discussion with an 'unnatural man' (?) would start with no bias whatsoever?

It would depend on what you mean by un-natural.
Since we are on a religious discussion forum we can assume it to be about religion in one form or another. If one denies the existence of God he can hardly be talking about religion . What is there left for him to say except deny everything Godly ? Discussion is a non-starter !

 

[Moonstone]

Tell us why would you even want to be with God eternally if you hate him so much ?
Is it HIS fault YOU CHOOSE to be disobedient ?
A little knowledge can be a dngerous thing . Did you ever give him a real chance or did you back off when he did not agree with you ?

Excuse me, do you even know me? No you don't so don't act like you do. You're right little knowledge is a dangerous thing..maybe you should open your mind.
Besides what person in their right mind could agree with a supposed "all loving" God who supposedly sends people to burn in "hell" forever just for not believing in him or just for loving someone of the same sex....not me.

 

[dawny0826]

I always find it weird how Christians claim that everybody except Christians is going to hell. I asked a Christian lady about it the other day. I asked: "Assuming this hell did exist? If a person were truly good and kind, even if they were an atheist, if they spent their life being good and kind to everyone, what reason would your god have to throw them into hell? What accusation could he bring against them to say they deserve it?" She answered: "It doesn't matter, they don't have the Holy Spirit, and you have to have the Holy Spirit." So the idea is that God will cast you into hell, even if you're an amazingly good person? Who would want to worship such a god?

She's simply sticking with one of many interpretations of the Bible regarding salvation and the afterlife. Many Christians believe that Christ is the only way to salvation, therefore, it makes sense that she believes that without the Holy Spirit, there's no reconcilitation with God.

Does this bother you? There's no pressure for you to believe as she does. You can interpret God in any way that you want or reject belief in him all together.

I'm sure she could speak much on God's love as well.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Besides what person in their right mind could agree with a supposed "all loving" God who supposedly sends people to burn in "hell" forever just for not believing in him or just for loving someone of the same sex....not me.

Not me either, and it would take the most selfish, unfeeling kind of person to want such a thing. I've actually heard people say they're glad some people are going to hell. What the heck? So it wouldn't bother them one bit for millions of people to burn forever?

 

[johnhanks]

It would depend on what you mean by un-natural.

Beta, you were the one who introduced the term 'natural man', and you must best know what that means; all I mean by un-natural man is the antithesis of this - again, you must know better than I.

Since we are on a religious discussion forum we can assume it to be about religion in one form or another. If one denies the existence of God he can hardly be talking about religion.

Really? So if I deny the existence of flying monkeys, I cannot be talking about the Order Primata?

 

[Beta]

Beta, you were the one who introduced the term 'natural man', and you must best know what that means; all I mean by un-natural man is the antithesis of this - again, you must know better than I.
Really? So if I deny the existence of flying monkeys, I cannot be talking about the Order Primata?

Yes I used the term 'natural man' from scripture - you used the term 'un-natural' so you must know what you are trying to say.
As for flying monkeys I could not discuss that with you since I know nothing about it. I think the same applies to those who deny God and know nothing about him. How can anyone have an opinion about something / someone who (for them) does not exist ?

 

[Beta]

Not me either, and it would take the most selfish, unfeeling kind of person to want such a thing. I've actually heard people say they're glad some people are going to hell. What the heck? So it wouldn't bother them one bit for millions of people to burn forever?

This is exactly the point I made in my earlier post - people listening to people and believing what THEY say instead of listening to GOD. THEN you would know there is no eternal burning or torment in hell-fire.

 

[Moonstone]

This is exactly the point I made in my earlier post - people listening to people and believing what THEY say instead of listening to GOD. THEN you would know there is no eternal burning or torment in hell-fire.

Just because they don't listen to your God doesn't mean they don't listen to their God(s)\ess(es) or higher power.

 

[johnhanks]

As for flying monkeys I could not discuss that with you since I know nothing about it.

Beta, you are being disingenuous. You stated

Originally Posted by Beta If one denies the existence of God he can hardly be talking about religion.

Now, statements about monkeys are inevitably statements about the Order Primata; and if I claim there are no flying monkeys I am inevitably making a statement about the Order Primata; in the same way, statements about god are inevitably statements about religion, and if I claim there is no god I am inevitably making a statement about religion.

I think the same applies to those who deny God and know nothing about him. How can anyone have an opinion about something / someone who (for them) does not exist ?

We can have the opinion that, like the flying monkeys, it does not exist. No other opinion is necessary.

 

[Beta]

Just because they don't listen to your God doesn't mean they don't listen to their God(s)\ess(es) or higher power.

There still could never be any agreement in a discussion since each would believe differently. All it causes is arguments and disagreements. I am not into that .

 

[Moonstone]

There still could never be any agreement in a discussion since each would believe differently. All it causes is arguments and disagreements. I am not into that .

You don't like disagreements, but you like telling people what they're doing wrong...typical.

 

[Beta]

We can have the opinion that, like the flying monkeys, it does not exist. No other opinion is necessary.

Fine - difference settled !:yes: