Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

[Jaskaran Singh]

But why are you bhAratiya-s (as a whole) so stupid as to elect the same Congress Party so many times?

 

[Poeticus]

But why are you bhAratiya-s so stupid as to elect the same Congress Party so many times?

You see, it's all about knowing how the political sphere works in India. Congress kept getting elected because the party always kept giving "short"-term money to the very poor; this is like a "quick fix". This kept the poor even poorer while it kept the rich even richer.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not just one but many reasons. They have money power. They distribute money and goodies to voters at election time. They use government machinary to their benefit. Muslims appeasement (the Hindu party BJP does not go to that lengths). Facilities to 'other backward classes' and 'scheduled castes/scheduled tribes', more than what they deserve. Reserving 50% of educational opportunities, jobs, promotions, political seats and positions for these sections, even though the candidates may not have the requisite qualifications or aptitude. Allowing these people to grab government land. Allowing infiltration of millions of Muslims from Bangladesh, who end up being their vote banks. Selecting local mafia bosses to be their candidates. Lately, more champions for the so-called down-trodden have come up. That is why Congress needs coalitions to come to power. They allow or have to allow the coalition partners to siphon public funds. The situation is very fluid and dirty.

 

[ronki23]

Stop looking on the freakin' Internet and buy a ticket and go take a survey of Sikhs in the Indian Punjab. How hard is that for you to understand?



Watch the video I posted.



That's a horrible argument. In fact, it's so illogical that I don't even know how to answer this one.

So there's no internet access for patriotic Indian Sikhs? How is it there aren't any online? I also heard Punjab doesn't even have internet access for all of the people ¬¬

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

So there's no internet access for patriotic Indian Sikhs? How is it there aren't any online? I also heard Punjab doesn't even have internet access for all of the people ¬¬

Hey, I like India and I was born into a Sikh family (in Pakistan, no less), does that count?

 

[ronki23]

Hey, I like India and I was born into a Sikh family (in Pakistan, no less), does that count?

You were born into a Sikh family but you're Hindu aren't you?

Anyway, those Sikhs who 'like' India and hate Congress seem to forget that Mahatma Gandhi was behind India's independence (as well as the others i've mentioned hundreds of times) and Manmohan Singh kickstarted the boom

 

[Aupmanyav]

So there's no internet access for patriotic Indian Sikhs? How is it there aren't any online? I also heard Punjab doesn't even have internet access for all of the people ¬¬

??? No internet access in Punjab? Another major boolsheet. I am sure that many of those posting at this forum are patriotic and proud Indian Sikhs.

Richest Indian Mukesh Ambani, Richest man in United Kingdoms and an Indian, Lakshmi Mittal, and Surinder Singh Badal, Deputy Chief Minister, Punjab at the Progressive Punjab Festival. This happened last week. Ambani and Mittal signed an agreement for telecommunications.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Anyway, those Sikhs who 'like' India and hate Congress seem to forget that Mahatma Gandhi was behind India's independence (as well as the others i've mentioned hundreds of times) and Manmohan Singh kickstarted the boom

Wrong again on all counts.
Not all Sikhs hate Congress in spite of the 1984 communal riots. At the moment Manmohan Singh is the Prime Minister of India. As mentioned the Chief of Army Staff is a Sikh, Bikram Singh. Montek Singh Ahuluwalia is the Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission of India which is equivalent to the post of a Cabinet Minister, the Prime Minister being the Chairman. Before the present Akali Dal government, Punjab had a Congress government headed by Capt. Amarinder Singh, son of the earstwhile King of Patiala in Punjab.

India's independence was because of the fact that colonies were no longer profitable for United Kingdom. At the same time, Burma, Sri Lanka, and many countries in Africa got their independence. Yes, Indian freedom movement was a factor. But Mahatma Gandhi was not the sole reason. Dissatisfaction in Army (Naval Mutiny in Bombay) was another reason.

The economic liberalization was the policy of the hindu party, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and the first steps were taken by the Congress Prime Minister, Narsimha Rao.

Ronki, you do not know India, you do not know Punjab, you do not know Hindus, you do not know Sikhs. Kindly stop commenting on them.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

??? No internet access in Punjab? Another major boolsheet. I am sure that many of those posting at this forum are patriotic and proud Indian Sikhs.

Richest Indian Mukesh Ambani, Richest man in United Kingdoms and an Indian, Lakshmi Mittal, and Surinder Singh Badal, Deputy Chief Minister, Punjab at the Progressive Punjab Festival. This happened last week. Ambani and Mittal signed an agreement for telecommunications.

Parkash Singh Badal should rot in he** for his corruption.
P.S. the person in the middle (on the picture) is Parkash (I would recognize his face anywhere, sanakhe panc**d); his wife's name is Surinder Kaur Badal (not him).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Parkash Singh Badal should rot in he** for his corruption.

No comments. Yes, corruption is a big problem in administration and police. (You can write 'hail' for the word). There would hardly be any place left in hell if all corrupt Indian politicians, administrators, and police personnel were to be interned there.

 

[ronki23]

??? No internet access in Punjab? Another major boolsheet. I am sure that many of those posting at this forum are patriotic and proud Indian Sikhs.

Richest Indian Mukesh Ambani, Richest man in United Kingdoms and an Indian, Lakshmi Mittal, and Surinder Singh Badal, Deputy Chief Minister, Punjab at the Progressive Punjab Festival. This happened last week. Ambani and Mittal signed an agreement for telecommunications.

So you put a picture of 3 Indians, 2 of them who are Hindus

 

[ronki23]

Wrong again on all counts.
Not all Sikhs hate Congress in spite of the 1984 communal riots. At the moment Manmohan Singh is the Prime Minister of India. As mentioned the Chief of Army Staff is a Sikh, Bikram Singh. Montek Singh Ahuluwalia is the Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission of India which is equivalent to the post of a Cabinet Minister, the Prime Minister being the Chairman. Before the present Akali Dal government, Punjab had a Congress government headed by Capt. Amarinder Singh, son of the earstwhile King of Patiala in Punjab.

India's independence was because of the fact that colonies were no longer profitable for United Kingdom. At the same time, Burma, Sri Lanka, and many countries in Africa got their independence. Yes, Indian freedom movement was a factor. But Mahatma Gandhi was not the sole reason. Dissatisfaction in Army (Naval Mutiny in Bombay) was another reason.

The economic liberalization was the policy of the hindu party, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and the first steps were taken by the Congress Prime Minister, Narsimha Rao.

Ronki, you do not know India, you do not know Punjab, you do not know Hindus, you do not know Sikhs. Kindly stop commenting on them.

So you agree Gandhi was one of the reasons of independence?

I also see the Sikhs you listed served under the military. There's two things wrong with this:

1. India is overreliant on Sikhs. The likes of the RSS say Sikhs are nothing more than the military wing of Hinduism. Oh, and my family is Gujarati and we have Hindu Punjabi family friends and they too live in this delusion

2. Indira Gandhi's bodyguards 'liked' India and look how loyal they were

As for India's economic boom, John Smith's book about India/China, 'The Dragon and the Elephant' , credits Manmohan Singh for

[FONT=&quot]'allowing imports and foreign investment to go over the limit of 40%,slashing tariffs from over 100% to 25-30%,and removing fertiliser subsidies for farmers; increasing their cost by 30%. '

Additional websites

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-07-24/news/29807511_1_market-economy-scooters-india-s-gdp

Manmohan Singh: Father of Indian reforms

You claim I don't know about Hinduism or Sikhism yet you say the Sikh Gurus pray to Hindu Gods even though I pointed out to you they consider them as only metaphors.

Please show me websites showing:

1. Sikhs being proud of India
2.Sikhs being proud of Manmohan Singh or members of the 'Quit India' movement
3. Sikhs having no problem with Hindus or praying with them. And I don't mean Hindu women becoming Sikhs or Hindus at Gurudwaras; where is the reverse?

Because out of the 3 things I listed, I can only see Sikhs proud of India as a geographical / historical term. As i've said, I see no Sikhs that like Congress or Sikhs going to other places of worship[/FONT]

 

[Poeticus]

Ambani is pure Gujarati...

 

[ronki23]

Ambani is pure Gujarati...

and Mittal is British. and that picture only shows 1 Sikh

 

[Poeticus]

and Mittal is British. and that picture only shows 1 Sikh

One Sikh who happens to be Punjabi...

But, I think the poster was trying to relay the fact that there is a lot of cooperation going on between Punjabis and other Indian ethno-linguistic groups.

However, keep in mind that the stuff you find on the Internet as it pertains to a full-blown anti-India sentiment coming from Punjabi Sikhs isn't the full reality of the ground-reality.

Being paid doesn't keep Punjabi Sikhs in the army. If that was the case, countless hundreds of thousands of them would have left the Indian army in droves. What keeps them in the army overall is their patriotism.

It isn't a myth when you hear from a Sikh Punjabi female that she sends her eldest son to the army and the youngest one for the business world. It's based on a correlating cultural observational fact.

The biggest proponents of Khalistan, on the other hand, are to be found in the Sikh diaspora. And, the proponents of Khalistan do not take into account that 1984 had nothing to do with non-Sikhs in other parts of India such as TN, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Karnataka, and many other states.

Do you know what was going on in those states while 1984 was going on? Nothing. There are numerous Sikhs in Gujarat (heck, there are many Gurudwaras in Gujarat and numerous Punjabis live in Gujarat that are successful businessmen/businesswomen) that will testify that no Sikh was harmed in Gujarat during 1984.

1984 was strictly a North Indian event. Yet, proponents of Khalistan will vehemently (falsely) state that ALL OF INDIA is to blame...that non-Sikhs in Ooty, TN had something to do with it. These statements are to be taken with a heap of salt for a valid reason. Because, they are not true.

Are you familiar with the fact that numerous Sikh Punjabi (that were corrupt politicians) had a part in 1984? Ever heard of KP Gill and his ilk? You won't hear a lot about him and his group because all of the concentration is levied at maligning Hindus (i.e., more anti-Hindu statement).

But, neutral, intellectuals that are familiar with this event will tell you straight off the bat that it wasn't a religious thing at all....like the video documents...it was purely political...Swami in his statements explains his time with Bhindrawale and recalls that Bhindranwale was not a terrorist....but the Congress media would like us to believe otherwise.

Listen, I understand you are a fan of the INC. But, INC =/= India. Most of the corrupt politicians in India are from INC (which is a very safe statement to say, especially after Sonia Gandhi's name was deleted from a recent "Richest Politicians in the World" entry....her estimated worth by Huffington Post was at $2 billion....but, after INC complained to the Post, they deleted her entry...because she doesn't have a way of proving how she made that much money.....in other words.....black money).

So, if INC is India....then.....by that logic....India equals black money. In other words, you are a fan of the wrong political party that thrives on fixing poverty issues by offering "short-term" money, which only keeps the poor poorer and the rich richer.

And, regarding the religion thing:

Just because Sikhs don't go to other temples and Hindus go to Gurudwaras doesn't mean anything practically speaking. Diaspora Sikhs =/= Indian Punjab.

Indian Punjabi Sikhs are tied to the farm land; they are proud and patriotic farmers.

Seriously, buy a plane ticket....go to India.....go to Indian Punjab....take a survey....ask them about 1984.....ask them about Khalistan.....ask them about diaspora Punjabi Sikhs.....etc. etc. etc.

And, it would be practical for you to stop using the Internet as the end all and be all defining factor of how Punjabi Sikhs view Hindus and India.

Ever wondered that you don't hear about Sikhs that are pro-India on the Net because they are too busy having a wonderful life in real life? That, they aren't set on Khalistan? They have better things to do than identify themselves with a radical militant ideology that sometimes rivals that of the Indian Mujahideen.

As per my experience with Punjabi Sikhs that I encountered in India....they are Indian first, Sikh second, and Punjabi third. Just saying.

 

[ronki23]

One Sikh who happens to be Punjabi...

But, I think the poster was trying to relay the fact that there is a lot of cooperation going on between Punjabis and other Indian ethno-linguistic groups.

However, keep in mind that the stuff you find on the Internet as it pertains to a full-blown anti-India sentiment coming from Punjabi Sikhs isn't the full reality of the ground-reality.

Being paid doesn't keep Punjabi Sikhs in the army. If that was the case, countless hundreds of thousands of them would have left the Indian army in droves. What keeps them in the army overall is their patriotism.

It isn't a myth when you hear from a Sikh Punjabi female that she sends her eldest son to the army and the youngest one for the business world. It's based on a correlating cultural observational fact.

The biggest proponents of Khalistan, on the other hand, are to be found in the Sikh diaspora. And, the proponents of Khalistan do not take into account that 1984 had nothing to do with non-Sikhs in other parts of India such as TN, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Karnataka, and many other states.

Do you know what was going on in those states while 1984 was going on? Nothing. There are numerous Sikhs in Gujarat (heck, there are many Gurudwaras in Gujarat and numerous Punjabis live in Gujarat that are successful businessmen/businesswomen) that will testify that no Sikh was harmed in Gujarat during 1984.

1984 was strictly a North Indian event. Yet, proponents of Khalistan will vehemently (falsely) state that ALL OF INDIA is to blame...that non-Sikhs in Ooty, TN had something to do with it. These statements are to be taken with a heap of salt for a valid reason. Because, they are not true.

Are you familiar with the fact that numerous Sikh Punjabi (that were corrupt politicians) had a part in 1984? Ever heard of KP Gill and his ilk? You won't hear a lot about him and his group because all of the concentration is levied at maligning Hindus (i.e., more anti-Hindu statement).

But, neutral, intellectuals that are familiar with this event will tell you straight off the bat that it wasn't a religious thing at all....like the video documents...it was purely political...Swami in his statements explains his time with Bhindrawale and recalls that Bhindranwale was not a terrorist....but the Congress media would like us to believe otherwise.

Listen, I understand you are a fan of the INC. But, INC =/= India. Most of the corrupt politicians in India are from INC (which is a very safe statement to say, especially after Sonia Gandhi's name was deleted from a recent "Richest Politicians in the World" entry....her estimated worth by Huffington Post was at $2 billion....but, after INC complained to the Post, they deleted her entry...because she doesn't have a way of proving how she made that much money.....in other words.....black money).

So, if INC is India....then.....by that logic....India equals black money. In other words, you are a fan of the wrong political party that thrives on fixing poverty issues by offering "short-term" money, which only keeps the poor poorer and the rich richer.

And, regarding the religion thing:

Just because Sikhs don't go to other temples and Hindus go to Gurudwaras doesn't mean anything practically speaking. Diaspora Sikhs =/= Indian Punjab.

Indian Punjabi Sikhs are tied to the farm land; they are proud and patriotic farmers.

Seriously, buy a plane ticket....go to India.....go to Indian Punjab....take a survey....ask them about 1984.....ask them about Khalistan.....ask them about diaspora Punjabi Sikhs.....etc. etc. etc.

And, it would be practical for you to stop using the Internet as the end all and be all defining factor of how Punjabi Sikhs view Hindus and India.

Ever wondered that you don't hear about Sikhs that are pro-India on the Net because they are too busy having a wonderful life in real life? That, they aren't set on Khalistan? They have better things to do than identify themselves with a radical militant ideology that sometimes rivals that of the Indian Mujahideen.

As per my experience with Punjabi Sikhs that I encountered in India....they are Indian first, Sikh second, and Punjabi third. Just saying.

I thank you for your informative post, I found it helpful BUT just one thing: everyone has time to brag about their country. I'm sure that they can find time to set up a website or write a book about it. Yet online I don't see it

And i'm not even Congress; i'm a BJP supporter. I just find that some individuals from other parties are good people/politicians. That includes Mahatma Gandhi and Vallahbhai Patel in those days, and Manmohan Singh in the 90s.

Plus i'm a bit confused about the Sikh army thing; India may be booming but it's slowing down and Sikhs need job security. Not to mention they're descendents of Gurus and those they are fighting from Pakistan are descendents of the Mughals (and have the same aim of taking over Kashmir)

 

[Poeticus]

I thank you for your informative post, I found it helpful BUT just one thing: everyone has time to brag about their country. I'm sure that they can find time to set up a website or write a book about it. Yet online I don't see it

And i'm not even Congress; i'm a BJP supporter. I just find that some individuals from other parties are good people/politicians. That includes Mahatma Gandhi and Vallahbhai Patel in those days, and Manmohan Singh in the 90s.

Plus i'm a bit confused about the Sikh army thing; India may be booming but it's slowing down and Sikhs need job security. Not to mention they're descendents of Gurus and those they are fighting from Pakistan are descendents of the Mughals (and have the same aim of taking over Kashmir)

Brag about what country?!?! Why would economically stable, society-oriented, law-abiding Punjabi Sikhs in INDIA need to make a website? What does it being online prove anything?

And, how can anything about the Sikh army thing be confusing?!? What part of Punjabi Sikhs continuing to be a part of the Indian army for PATRIOTISM do you not understand? And, what in the world does them being descendants of Gurus (and that's a misnomer because a majority of Sikhs are not Khatris) and descendants of Pakistan and Kashmir have anything to do with this?

 

[ronki23]

Brag about what country?!?! Why would economically stable, society-oriented, law-abiding Punjabi Sikhs in INDIA need to make a website? What does it being online prove anything?

And, how can anything about the Sikh army thing be confusing?!? What part of Punjabi Sikhs continuing to be a part of the Indian army for PATRIOTISM do you not understand? And, what in the world does them being descendants of Gurus (and that's a misnomer because a majority of Sikhs are not Khatris) and descendants of Pakistan and Kashmir have anything to do with this?

Punjabi Sikhs would (or SHOULD) make websites like

'Proud to be Sikh, proud to be Indian'

because Muslims do this, even for Western countries

As for the Sikh army thing, it could be a case of 'Defend Punjab and its neighbour Kashmir from being invaded by the Pakistanis and fight Islam like the Gurus' or simply 'the enemy of the enemy is my friend' (Hindus against Muslims).

Remember, Kuwait;Saudi Arabia and Jordan kicked out/destroyed the Palestinians yet they are still anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic. Iran still has Jews for PR purposes. These people don't like Palestinians yet they still use them as an excuse to hate Israel. Maybe Sikhs could be like this r.e the alliance with the Hindus

 

[Aupmanyav]

So you agree Gandhi was one of the reasons of independence?

Which Indian would deny that?

1. India is overreliant on Sikhs. The likes of the RSS say Sikhs are nothing more than the military wing of Hinduism. Oh, and my family is Gujarati and we have Hindu Punjabi family friends and they too live in this delusion

2. Indira Gandhi's bodyguards 'liked' India and look how loyal they were.

Wrong information again. People are selected in Indian Army at lower level on basis of the population of the region. So, the percentage of Sikhs in the Army is not much different from the percentage of Sikhs in India. Punjab makes X% of the population, therefore, X% of the Army from Punjab. There are many traditional warrior people in India. Rajputs, Jats, Mahars, Gorkhas (they are Indian generally from region around Darjeeling). We are proud of them too. As for the Sikhs bodyguards of Indira Gandhi, it was a charged atmosphere at that time and nobody acted in a way that a normal person would. It was unfortunate because it resulted in a communal riot.

As for India's economic boom, John Smith's book about India/China, 'The Dragon and the Elephant' , credits Manmohan Singh for ..

Whatever these sites or books say and for whatever reason, we know the background very well. While Congress dabbled with socialism, BJP was a rightist party and advocated economic reforms all the time.

You claim I don't know about Hinduism or Sikhism yet you say the Sikh Gurus pray to Hindu Gods even though I pointed out to you they consider them as only metaphors.

Millions of Sikhs visit the Mother Goddess temples and pilgrimage centers like Haridwar and Pushkar. Sri Guru Gobind Singh visited Pushkar and prayed there. Sikhs have hymns in praise of Shiva and Shakti. However the later Sikhs may paint it, their word is not truer than the word of Gurus.

"Chandi Charitar Ukti Bilas is a heroic poetic composition which describes the glories and praises and worship of the Hindu goddess deity Chandi and describes her victories over many demons, and included in the 4th chapter of Dasam Granth, whose authorship is generally and traditionally attributed to Guru Gobind Singh."
Chandi Charitar Ukti Bilas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Guru Gobind Singh was a worshipper of the Divine Mother (Shri Bhagauti/Bhagawati)
chandi charitar - YouTube
deh shiva bar mohe - YouTube

1. 2. 3.

Do it yourself. And not just the information on the net, talk to people from India.

and Mittal is British. and that picture only shows 1 Sikh

Lakshmi Mittal lives in UK but is an Indian national. He hails from Rajasthan. A correction, He is the richest Asian in Britain but he is the eighth richest person in UK.

Plus i'm a bit confused about the Sikh army thing; India may be booming but it's slowing down and Sikhs need job security.

Who does not need job security, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Christians? Who?

'Proud to be Sikh, proud to be Indian'

check this: https://www.google.co.in/#q='Proud+to+be+Sikh,+proud+to+be+Indian'+&safe=active
About 3,910,000 results (0.34 seconds)

 

[Poeticus]

Punjabi Sikhs would (or SHOULD) make websites like

'Proud to be Sikh, proud to be Indian'

because Muslims do this, even for Western countries

As for the Sikh army thing, it could be a case of 'Defend Punjab and its neighbour Kashmir from being invaded by the Pakistanis and fight Islam like the Gurus' or simply 'the enemy of the enemy is my friend' (Hindus against Muslims).

Remember, Kuwait;Saudi Arabia and Jordan kicked out/destroyed the Palestinians yet they are still anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic. Iran still has Jews for PR purposes. These people don't like Palestinians yet they still use them as an excuse to hate Israel. Maybe Sikhs could be like this r.e the alliance with the Hindus

Proud Indian Sikhs don't need to make any websites. They have better things to concentrate on.

And, your last two paragraphs are only emotional digressions. They have no affiliation with the concern of Punjabi Sikhs in India. The alliance between various ethno-linguistic groups is already strong, albeit sometimes ethnic tensions do arise but never into full blown catastrophes like 1984 and fascist ethnic riots perpetrated by Marathis on South Indians and North Indians.

I have no idea what it is that you are even trying to say anymore. I don't even know what your argument is anymore. You have this unsafe fear that Punjabi Sikhs both in India and abroad hate India and every single Hindu in the world. This fear, as I understand it, was born from reading Khalistani websites online, is that correct? Well, what part of Khalistani websites not resembling ground-realites in Indian Punjab do you not understand? You are literally generalizing and ostracizing a whole group of people that have contributed a lot to the betterment of India. For some reason, you keep bringing in Gandhi and Sardar (which is ironic because Sardar didn't identify a lot with most of Gandhi's views); I am Gujarati, and I'm not even fond of Gandhi.....Bhagat Singh was betrayed by Gandhi....Bhagat Singh could have brought forth independence. Gandhi didn't do anything to stop the hanging of Bhagat Singh. Even Godse stressed that Gandhi was more motivated by population control than objective and rational truth. You are using non-correlative paradigms to evaluate this whole thing about Indian Punjabi Sikhs and what not without taking heed to the fact that what is written on the Internet is not representative of the ground reality. And, I truly believe that you still have yet to watch that interview with Swami, where he relays his documented encounter with Bhindranwale; Swami explains the alterations done by the Congress Party on 1984 and the facts pertaining to the Golden Temple and how there was a political involvement pertaining to communism and the loss of the Punjabi identity and language; the two spend a lot time together - in fact, the two got along quite well. Please, watch the video. And, please....buy a plane ticket and go to the Indian Punjab (which is 37%+ Hindu) and evaluate the ground-reality yourself. And, while you are at it, travel to other Indian states where Punjabi Sikhs have moved to and have contributed a lot in terms of business and ask them personally, instead of relying on what UK or Canadian Sikhs sprout on the Internet.