Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

[ronki23]

I watched these videos many months ago, the second one I will look at again when I have time

I completely forgot that instead of crowns, high class Hindus wore turbans for practicality (that and only the British Royal family/ Ashoka (?) wore a Crown. I thought Sikhs used them instead of crowns (for practical reasons) but they also did it to represent equality to high class Hindus.

[youtube]6zrruikkEH8[/youtube]
Long Live Hindu-Sikh Unity - YouTube

Sikh and Hindu unity for centuries a slap on face of khalistani terrorists - YouTube

Any opinions on the legitimacy/ grievances of the Bodo,Assam,Nagaland and Manipur movements? It seems India has trouble holding states together if there are so many Sepratists online.

 

[ronki23]

The website's being funny, it's not letting me go to page 23 to see what people think of the videos. Anyway, i'm intrigued what you think of them and the other India separatist movements r.e. Nagaland,Assam,Bodo and Manipur.

Here's another Sikh that all people should admire

 

[Aupmanyav]

I completely forgot that instead of crowns, high class Hindus wore turbans for practicality (that and only the British Royal family/ Ashoka (?) wore a Crown. I thought Sikhs used them instead of crowns (for practical reasons) but they also did it to represent equality to high class Hindus.

Any opinions on the legitimacy/ grievances of the Bodo,Assam,Nagaland and Manipur movements? It seems India has trouble holding states together if there are so many Sepratists online.

The first para is extremely funny and ill-informed. It makes me think that you are neither of Gujarati extraction nor a Sanatana Sikh. Village people all over India wear head-gear, some are very colorful. It is considered bad manner to appear before an elder without head-gear. It also helps against the intense heat of Indian summers.

Sure, as an Indian, I have opinion on all things happening in India. Assam problem is because of influx of Bengalis. The government secretly aids the separatists so that it does not loose to Assam sentiment at one time represented by Assam Gana Parishad (some thing like propping up Bhinderanwale in Punjab). As for Bodos, firstly, Bodos are hindus, and hindus are not supported by the current ruling party which is headed by a Roman Catholic. Bodos constitute some 18% of the Assam population, which in itself is small (30 million) by Indian standards. Secondly, will a Bodo state be economically viable? A Bodo state will throw out Bangladeshi muslims who have settled in tribal lands, out, and this will create more problems for India which the ruling party does not want. Muslims are their vote-banks. This is why Bodos are not getting a state of their own. Nagaland and Manipur movements are Christian inspired and are abated by the current government.

Yes, we admire many Sikhs, particularly those in the armed forces. My personal favorite is "Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon (17 July 1943 - 14 December 1971) was an officer of the Indian Air Force. He was posthumously awarded the Param Vir Chakra, India's highest military decoration, in recognition of his lone defence of Srinagar Air Base against a Pakistani air raid during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. He is the only member of the Indian Air Force to be so honoured." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmal_Jit_Singh_Sekhon

 

[ronki23]

The first para is extremely funny and ill-informed. It makes me think that you are neither of Gujarati extraction nor a Sanatana Sikh. Village people all over India wear head-gear, some are very colorful. It is considered bad manner to appear before an elder without head-gear. It also helps against the intense heat of Indian summers.

Sure, as an Indian, I have opinion on all things happening in India. Assam problem is because of influx of Bengalis. The government secretly aids the separatists so that it does not loose to Assam sentiment at one time represented by Assam Gana Parishad (some thing like propping up Bhinderanwale in Punjab). As for Bodos, firstly, Bodos are hindus, and hindus are not supported by the current ruling party which is headed by a Roman Catholic. Bodos constitute some 18% of the Assam population, which in itself is small (30 million) by Indian standards. Secondly, will a Bodo state be economically viable? A Bodo state will throw out Bangladeshi muslims who have settled in tribal lands, out, and this will create more problems for India which the ruling party does not want. Muslims are their vote-banks. This is why Bodos are not getting a state of their own. Nagaland and Manipur movements are Christian inspired and are abated by the current government.

Yes, we admire many Sikhs, particularly those in the armed forces. My personal favorite is "Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon (17 July 1943 - 14 December 1971) was an officer of the Indian Air Force. He was posthumously awarded the Param Vir Chakra, India's highest military decoration, in recognition of his lone defence of Srinagar Air Base against a Pakistani air raid during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. He is the only member of the Indian Air Force to be so honoured." Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess village people wear turbans in front of elders but most Indians don't do this. Urbanisation/ secularism? I thought wearing a Turban would make it hotter considering you're bunching all that hair together and wrapping it to keep the heat in.

Regarding Assam, I didn't quite understand that. Which government is aiding the separatist movement-the Indian or the Bangladeshi? I'm assuming Indian with your reference to Bhindranwale. It seems to me that Bhindranwale wasn't the monster that the Indian media makes him out to be; the posters on this forum even say he didn't actually do anything wrong and there was no conclusive evidence.

And Bodos are Bathouist, not Hindu. They seem like pagans. The Bodos seem 'Hinduized' though.

Are Assam,Nagaland and Manipur's population actually willing to stay part of India? Because, as with the Khalistanis, i'm not seeing many 'pro' India sites (fine, many Assamese do show they're proud of India but from my limited knowledge these 3 separatist movements are a big deal with India, alongside the Khalistanis).

I'm Gujarati by blood but my parents were born in East Africa and i'm British. I'm not particularly fond of being put into the same both as British Asians and Indians simply because I don't drink/smoke/play cricket or listen to 'underground' rap music.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I thought wearing a Turban would make it hotter considering you're bunching all that hair together and wrapping it to keep the heat in.

That is for the Sikhs to answer. Actually most other village people did not kept hair, they got it tonsured, Hindus keeping a tuft at the back of the head.

Regarding Assam, I didn't quite understand that. Which government is aiding the separatist movement-the Indian or the Bangladeshi?

There is heavy Bangladeshi Muslim infiltration. This does not bother the present Congress government. Assamese people would like these to return back. ULFA, the fake separatist organization has been allowed to become powerful and collect funds and arms, so that the people who want Muslims to return do not get into power. They were at one time represented by Assam Gana Parishad (AGP). At the moment they are weak.

And Bodos are Bathouist, not Hindu. They seem like pagans. The Bodos seem 'Hinduized' though.

"As of 2001, more than 90% of the Bodos living in Assam were Hindu." Wikipedia. Hinduism itself is a pagan religion.

Are Assam, Nagaland and Manipur's population actually willing to stay part of India?

Assam has a Hindu majority. It will want to stay in India. More than 50% of Manipuris are Hindus. As for Nagaland, at one time, there was an insurgency which has subsided now with the facilities provided to them. 90% of the Nagaland population of 2 million is Christian. India has never considered religion to be the basis of nationality and will never allow any state to secede. It is powerful enough to do so.

I'm Gujarati by blood but my parents were born in East Africa and i'm British. I'm not particularly fond of being put into the same both as British Asians and Indians simply because I don't drink/smoke/play cricket or listen to 'underground' rap music.

I understand that. You do not want to be counted with the rowdies, neither will I. I am from Rajasthan, Jodhpur.

 

[ronki23]

That is for the Sikhs to answer. Actually most other village people did not kept hair, they got it tonsured, Hindus keeping a tuft at the back of the head.

There is heavy Bangladeshi Muslim infiltration. This does not bother the present Congress government. Assamese people would like these to return back. ULFA, the fake separatist organization has been allowed to become powerful and collect funds and arms, so that the people who want Muslims to return do not get into power. They were at one time represented by Assam Gana Parishad (AGP). At the moment they are weak."As of 2001, more than 90% of the Bodos living in Assam were Hindu." Wikipedia. Hinduism itself is a pagan religion.Assam has a Hindu majority. It will want to stay in India. More than 50% of Manipuris are Hindus. As for Nagaland, at one time, there was an insurgency which has subsided now with the facilities provided to them. 90% of the Nagaland population of 2 million is Christian. India has never considered religion to be the basis of nationality and will never allow any state to secede. It is powerful enough to do so.I understand that. You do not want to be counted with the rowdies, neither will I. I am from Rajasthan, Jodhpur.

Bathouism may be pagan but it's not Hinduism. The same wiki said 90% of Bodos are Bathouist!

The Bodos Of North-East India

As for Nagaland,Manipur and Assam, the fact is that there are many separatist movements in India is worrying. Religion should not have to do with it; it is like saying if India took over Nepal the Nepalis would be happy as they're fellow Hindus. Or like saying Spain and Italy would be happy together.

As for China, they have control of Tibet and Xinjiang. It seems that the nationalities I have issues with have problems with separatists (my Master's course was 60% Chinese students and 10% Indians and i'm from the UK O_0)

 

[Treks]

This thread should be moved to the general Dharmic discussion forum. It's no longer related to Sikhism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is not even religious now, it is political.

As for Nagaland,Manipur and Assam, the fact is that there are many separatist movements in India is worrying. Religion should not have to do with it; it is like saying if India took over Nepal the Nepalis would be happy as they're fellow Hindus. Or like saying Spain and Italy would be happy together.

It may be worrying to you, but we have adjusted to it. India is a large country. When even UK may have problems with Northern Ireland, Scotland, or Wales; it is no wonder that India would have many more. India is not going to loose (easily) what it got on Independence. We have Maoist movements in 7 of our states, Tamil movement in Tamilnadu, and of course, Kashmir.

 

[Treks]

I don't know what it is. :-/

 

[ronki23]

It is not even religious now, it is political.It may be worrying to you, but we have adjusted to it. India is a large country. When even UK may have problems with Northern Ireland, Scotland, or Wales; it is no wonder that India would have many more. India is not going to loose (easily) what it got on Independence. We have Maoist movements in 7 of our states, Tamil movement in Tamilnadu, and of course, Kashmir.

The only problems are with Scotland's SNP and the IRA; I don't see most Scottish WANTING to be independent as they know what side their bread's buttered. The Ireland conflict has died down and the UK has Northern Ireland.

The fact that there's also a Tamil movement worries me. India's government will not want independence but the people themselves wanting independance shows how 'stable' India is. What worries me even more is how India assisted the Sinhalese in the genocide of Tamils when in fact, India has many Tamils. Do the Tamils also want independence? I know the Chinese minorities were historically part of the Chinese dynasties; is religion a 'good enough' reason to keep people in your countries? I've been "convinced" Sikhs like India but what about these Tamils,Assamese,Bodos and Manipuris?

 

[Treks]

Since when did Sikhs become a nationality? IT'S A RELIGION!!!!!!!!!

What you've said is like me saying: Americans, English, Indians, New Zealanders and Christians.

 

[ronki23]

Since when did Sikhs become a nationality? IT'S A RELIGION!!!!!!!!!

What you've said is like me saying: Americans, English, Indians, New Zealanders and Christians.

I never said they were a nationality. If I did, please point it out to me. I was merely stating the Khalistan movement is based on religion while the other movements are ethnicity based. Assam and Manipur seem to have a huge issue with India from my limited knowledge, as do the Tamils (or so it seems).

I actually researched the Sikhs as I needed to know about them before becoming a regular at the Gurudwara.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We take all that in stride and do not see 'huge problems' that you mention.

 

[Poeticus]

I've been "convinced" Sikhs like India but what about these Tamils,Assamese,Bodos and Manipuris?

Um........but what about this having nothing to do with the SikhDIR????!!!!!

Hmmm? What about that, yo??????

 

[ronki23]

Um........but what about this having nothing to do with the SikhDIR????!!!!!

Hmmm? What about that, yo??????

Lol, i'm going to Gurudwara after several months hopefully Monday. To a different one as i've returned from University.

Is there any Mohammedism or Qu'ran verses if Islam influenced Sikhism? As Hindus obviously claim Sikhs are a branch of Hinduism due to their references to Ram,Shiva,Krishna and Durga.

Or is it because of the 'double negatives' from Islam that they do not claim Sikhism e.g.


لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

As you say Sikhs 'like' India and they have 'no time' to defend her from pro-Khalistan comments online, why don't Sikhs talk about the Khalistan hardliners attacks on Hindus from the link posted earlier? Additionally, as you say it requires me going to India to see patriotic Sikhs, would the same apply to the guys from Assam,Bodoland,Manipur and Nagaland? These separatist movements show something is wrong with India

 

[Poeticus]

As you say Sikhs 'like' India and they have 'no time' to defend her from pro-Khalistan comments online, why don't Sikhs talk about the Khalistan hardliners attacks on Hindus from the link posted earlier?

I haven't said that they don't have any time to defend India from pro-Khalistani comments online.

Seriously, Ronki. You are using the Internet as a definitive tool to conclude assessments on whether if every Punjabi Sikh hates India or not. And, this approach, as I have said many times, is a faulted one. It's also borderline insanity.

Additionally, as you say it requires me going to India to see patriotic Sikhs, would the same apply to the guys from Assam,Bodoland,Manipur and Nagaland? These separatist movements show something is wrong with India

There are COUNTLESS things wrong with India. It's a third-world country for a reason. It's not Switzerland. Will you ever get that through your head? Furthermore, why are you so worried about this, especially for someone who isn't even a True Desiya (which would mean that you are an NRI who can't speak an Indic language nor is adept with the various Indic cultures and sub-cultures)? Why are you so worried and attached over the militant and terroristic foreign-based Khalistani groups, many of which are blacklisted by Canadian and UK governments as terror organizations?

And regarding those other separatist movements: the same would not apply because you would be working with a different socio-geo-political paradigm.

Furthermore, this question doesn't relate to the SikhDIR.

 

[ronki23]

There are COUNTLESS things wrong with India. It's a third-world country for a reason. It's not Switzerland. Will you ever get that through your head? Furthermore, why are you so worried about this, especially for someone who isn't even a True Desiya (which would mean that you are an NRI who can't speak an Indic language nor is adept with the various Indic cultures and sub-cultures)? Why are you so worried and attached over the militant and terroristic foreign-based Khalistani groups, many of which are blacklisted by Canadian and UK governments as terror organizations?

Comments like that are the reason I don't like Indian people. I've already said that i'm Gujarati and I speak it but I can't read or write it. Don't you think the reason I investigate these movements is because of such comments? Perhaps the separatists don't like being around other Indians who think like that

And Khalistanis are Sikhs so why can't this be in SikhDIR? One of the reasons this movement occured was the Hinduization of Sikhism?

Also, speaking of Khalistan as a terror movement, Mandela's ANC was considered a terrorist movement once upon a time. Anyway, can any of you answer why Sikhs and Muslims don't cooperate considering Islam influenced it too?

I'm also thinking that there is no one Khalistan movement? Some of these people trained at Al Qaeda's camps and others killed Hindus,bombed Air India,etc. Some of these morons drink alcohol and smoke; I don't think there's one movement

 

[Treks]

There are verses which talk about Islamic practices and the word 'Allah' is used very occasionally.

There are compositions by Baba Farid Ji who was a kind of Muslim, and Kabir writes a lot with references to Muslim activities.

 

[Treks]

Anyway, can any of you answer why Sikhs and Muslims don't cooperate considering Islam influenced it too?

Cooperate on what? Your statement is too broad.

I'm sure Guru Gobind Singh Ji's little children would have cooperated with them if they hadn't been bricked alive for refusing to convert to Islam (which everybody knows doens't use force to convert people...).

 

[ronki23]

Cooperate on what? Your statement is too broad.

I'm sure Guru Gobind Singh Ji's little children would have cooperated with them if they hadn't been bricked alive for refusing to convert to Islam (which everybody knows doens't use force to convert people...).

there's a 'then' and 'now' mentality. Why do Sikhs not share festivals/visit Mosque if they share Hindu festivals and practices and visit Mandirs? It because of Islam being more closed minded? India,Pakistan and the UAE are countries with many Muslims and have many,many Sikhs/open Mosques (well, Dubai has a few); if Sikhs are the more open minded of the World Religions, why don't they share rituals?

I shared Diwali with Chinese (Buddhist/Atheist) and Palestinian Muslims but I didn't get Chinese New Year or Eid invitations in return