I did retaliate in secondary school,I hit back,14 years old and expelled,had to have home tuition and preparation for exams,it was tough but I made it to uni.
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Corporal Punishment Reinstated
- Thread starter The Hammer
- Start date
I did retaliate in secondary school,I hit back,14 years old and expelled,had to have home tuition and preparation for exams,it was tough but I made it to uni.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Good for you!
This was covered in previous posts.
"Properly understood and administered, spanking is most effective as a deterrent to undesirable behavior for younger preschoolers (but never for infants). That’s because reasoning and taking away privileges often simply don’t work with kids in that age range. As children age, spanking should become even less frequent as other types of consequences are utilized. Spanking should be phased out completely before adolescence."
Spanking Can Be an Appropriate Form of Child Discipline
Hitting is more out of anger... Spanking is out of love. Word definitions are important.
When I was first married I said to my wife, "I don't like fighting" (arguing). She said, "We aren't fighting." (hitting each other)
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
That would be trauma bonding. Which is an abusive behavior.
It is never okay to hit a child. Ever.
I disagree. I usually find this to be the mantra of those who never received love correction.
Let's look how we implement it in laws...
1) DUI - you get spanked in your wallet and insurance.
2) 2 DUI - you get spanked with your wallet, insurance and license.
3) 3 DUI (while suspended license) - you get spanking with wallet, insurance, license and jail
4) Don't obey the jailer when he says move, you get forcibly taken down.
Vs.
1) Child wants to put a hairpin in the electrical socket - you speak
2) Hard-headed child still tries to put hairpin in socket - you give a time out
3) Hard-headed child still tries to put hairpin in socket - a loving spank that says "no" that supports the danger because the spanking will never be as traumatic as the electricity running through his body.
Remember, I said that a love discipline is not the answer but can be used as a tool.
And love discipline is much more loving than the jailer.
My children said "thank you" when they were teenagers. Never had the issues that today's youth are having which are much more traumatic (drugs, free sex, depression, suicidal thoughts et al)
Maybe because they never had love discipline?
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
I was spanked. And hit. It wasn't loving correction. Hitting. Children. Is. Wrong. All it did was create a life of PTSD for me. I have trauma now, but it's okay because it was "loving" right? I get jumpy when I hear loud sounds. When people raise their voice. It ****ed me up. I'm still dealing with it in therapy. I only realized recently that my "bad behavior" was the result of being on the autism spectrum.
More trauma bonding.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I'm aware it was covered in previous posts.Every study I've ever read on spanking says the opposite of what you're trying to say here.
You're apparently trying to argue that spanking isn't hitting and calling it "discipline" instead, in some attempt to euphemize it. You just did the same exact thing with your wife. Using words to have an argument is miles away from having a physical fight with your wife, and I think you know that.
Imagine if you told your wife that at the end of your argument you're going to smack your hands across her backside to teach her a lesson. Spanking is hitting. And if you don't think it is, ask yourself if it's appropriate to "spank" an adult, and what the consequences may be if you did so.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yes, the mantra of people who have never been physically hurt by their parents.
You know what you sound like? An abuse victim. Making excuses for your abuser.
Please notice again how you've used yet another euphemism for physical violence here - now you're calling it "correction."
Notice how the law and/or your punishment never involves you being physically assaulted (i.e. "spanked"). Like, the cops don't take your license away and then bend you over their knee and smack you around, right? And even in your scenario here, I'm not getting hit by anybody unless I make a move toward physical violence first.
Child has learned nothing in this scenario. You forgot the part where you explain to the child the dangers of carrying through with that action.
I taught my nephew that the stove was hot without ever having to have him burn his hand, and without ever having to hit him.
And now you're calling it "love discipline." This is double speak. Spanking is hitting.
We've developed much better skills for dealing with children at this point in time that there really isn't any excuse to hit any children. If I "love disciplined" my dog, my neighbour would report me to the SPCA for animal abuse but some people think it's perfectly fine to hit a child to "teach them a lesson" or whatever. Ask yourself if you learn best that way, or if perhaps there is a better way. And ask yourself what happens when you, as an adult, put your hands on another adult. And then ask yourself if that's not okay, why is it okay to do to a helpless child who hasn't got anywhere near the coping skills that an adult has.
Brian2
Veteran Member
I think that a problem with being a parent is that most parents haven't the skills to learn all the often conflicting ways that the experts give for raising and disciplining your kids.
Corporal punishment when done in love can certainly be better than nothing and other methods that you can't seem to get your head around and experts in the field should be able to get their head around that concept and not be putting a massive guilt trip on parents with their preaching about corporal punishment, which can be just another thing that takes away from the confidence we should have in our ability to parent.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Experts in the field say spanking is harmful. It's not "better than nothing," it's actually worse. They don't need to "get their head around" any concepts. It seems you're the one in need of doing that. You just want to throw out expert opinions and evidence because it doesn't jive with what you believe. Experts don't do that - they go with the evidence instead. And the evidence says hitting in any form is harmful to children.
I realize that all parents don't have all the skills required to parent, but that's no excuse to hit your kids because you can't think of anything better. It's your job to do better.
Parents who hit their kids are parents who have lost control, imo. How is it that you're able to argue with grown adults without hitting them but when it comes to helpless children, then it's okay to hit to make your point? Nah.
And your above (which I am so sorry you went through) - and as you noted - it wasn't done in love.
Hitting is wrong. I hope you are able to work through it with therapy.
My wife was raised in an abusive home so she knows what it causes. In our case, it was Jesus who healed hearts and restored life and living. (no more PTSD)
Brian2
Veteran Member
Personally I think that discipline by corporal punishment (that is loving discipline) is better than nothing and it is silly to suggest otherwise.
The thing to stress is loving discipline. Some parents choose corporal punishment as part of a loving discipline regime and it does not mean they have lost control.
I don't think that it makes sense to argue that adults can argue without hitting therefore there should be no corporal punishment. And to have the phrase "but when it comes to helpless children" seems to be accusing those parents of something that probably is not true and is just a plea to some sort of emotions.
A parent child relationship is not the same as an adult, adult relationship.
I don't say that hitting kids is the best discipline but any education in that area should be done without demonising those who use corporal punishment.
I disagree. I have found studies that say the opposite and quoted one.I'm aware it was covered in previous posts.Every study I've ever read on spanking says the opposite of what you're trying to say here.
You're apparently trying to argue that spanking isn't hitting and calling it "discipline" instead, in some attempt to euphemize it. You just did the same exact thing with your wife. Using words to have an argument is miles away from having a physical fight with your wife, and I think you know that.
Spanking is hitting. And if you don't think it is, ask yourself if it's appropriate to "spank" an adult, and what the consequences may be if you did so.
If anything, all you have to do is see today's youth with the "progressive" thought of "disciplining is wrong"... and it will say it all IMO
Very well said.
Personally, I think that spanking is silly, and those who do so are lacking a part of their brain that tends to inform the rest of us - like evidence:
Study: Spanking Is Bad for Children - The Atlantic
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
The problem with loving discipline is that the child's brain is not making a distinction between violent hitting or "loving" discipline such as a spanking. The child's brain is experiencing the spanking or a slap to the face the same way. It's physical pain inflicted by another, and that's all the child's brain will know. While the child may be able to rationalize that these two things are not the same, if the child so pleases to, the child will NEVER be able to talk themselves out of the instinct and PTSD that those spankings were painful, abusive, and warnings that the person who inflicted them is a scary person not to be fully trusted. Ever. Very few abused children who frequently received spankings will ever be completely open and honest with their parents, even if their parents think they are.
If anything, the "love" I received from my parents after they hurt me confused me as a child. Why would they hit me if they loved me? Why did they spank me if they could've chosen not to? I distinctly remember one time that my mom cried and said she didn't want to spank me, and she was sorry she had to, and I asked why she had to. Who was making her spank me?
Now I resent my parents. This wasn't love. They loved me, but there was no love in those punishments.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
What you personally believe is in contradiction with all available evidence. You want to just ignore the experts, and go with what you feel instead, which is folly, imo.
You and I just acknowledged that parents lacking in parenting skills are often parents who hit their kids, because they aren't aware of the different methods available to them.
Why not? I guess you don't realize that when you hit your kids and call it "discipline" that you're teaching them that hitting is how we solve problems. And it certainly is not, given that as an adult, if you hit another adult, we call it assault. Heck, if you hit a dog we call it animal abuse. So why should it be okay to hit children, when it's not okay to hit anyone/anything else?
I hope you aren't suggesting that children aren't helpless against a physical attack from an adult - either physically or emotionally.
You're right, it's not. It's much more delicate. Kids don't have the wisdom, life experience, coping skills, etc. that are all available to adults. Kids don't yet know how to regulate their emotions, for example. I can't see how anyone would think hitting them would be helpful in that area.
Adults don't hit each other to solve their differences or resolve an argument, so why would anyone teach their kids (and that is what you're doing when you're hitting them) that hitting is how we solve our problems in life?
Corporal punishment should be demonized and done away with. It has no positive benefits and a ton of negative ones.
We have better methods now, in the 21st Century.
Kids who are spanked before age three are more to express aggressive behaviour.
Kids who are spanked have less gray matter than those who aren't, and are more likely to develop disorders such as depression, addiction and anxiety disorders.
Kids who are spanked are more likely to lie.
These are kind of like, the opposite of what we're going for as parents, right?
Psychiatric News
Parental Spanking Linked to Aggressive Behavior in Children - Child Development Institute
Spanking Linked to Increase in Children’s Behavior Problems
Harsh discipline fosters dishonesty in young children
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You didn't post any study. You posted an article from Time magazine, written by a minister from "Focus on the Family," which is a fundamentalist Christian organization.
Studies overwhelmingly show that there are no positive benefits from spanking, and that spanking is harmful to a child's physical, emotional and psychological well-being.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But I believe there are multiple factors involved, plus just about every generation thinks its youth are the worse-- including your own parents.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I don't see anyone saying that "disciplining is wrong."
What I see are people saying (backed by the evidence) that discipline in the form of physical punishment is harmful to children.
You're just trying to smuggle in spanking under the umbrella of "discipline" as though they are synonymous. You're not the first to try that one and you won't be the last.