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Could have Islam exist without Judaism & Christianity?
- Thread starter gnostic
- Start date
no it's was exemple , the point is God put the trust in them , and then they edit his message many times with many prophets and messangers .
that's why i told you it's God message sent and re-sent .
this question is not for me .
maybe you suppose that ask God ?
and why God sent many messngers , instead of one !!!
it's God business , to let the people edit his message or insult him ...etc ,but all we will be in the jugement day .
it's not mean his messages to the people before , it's mean his order ( be and it's will be ) wish mean he is the full control of everything .
i am not think the evidence talking , that it's changed and i gave you exemples .
for my opinion God make covenant between him and the jews , and the jews broke the convent and edit his rules and books , that's why God provoke them by chosing other nation as He promiss them in the Bible.
Is God protecting the Qu'ran from corruption?
outhouse
Atheistically
yes God decide to protecting the Quran from the corruption
why He did not protecting the Torah and Gospel , that's His business .
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did you check the link ?, i don't thing so .
anyway it's my simple info , i hope some jews correct me if i am wrong .
outhouse
Atheistically
false material.
the earliest mention of Israel is on the Merneptah Stele 1209 BC
at that time Israeli's as a place did not exist, at this time they were a semi nomadic tribe
learn real history from credible sources, or wiki in a pinch
History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The name Israel first appears in the stele of the Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209 BC, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is no more."[20] This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state;[21] Archaeologist Paula McNutt says: "It is probably ... during Iron Age I [that] a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'," differentiating itself from its neighbours via prohibitions on intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion.[22]
In the Late Bronze Age there were no more than about 25 villages in the highlands, but this increased to over 300 by the end of Iron I, while the settled population doubled from 20,000 to 40,000.[23] The villages were more numerous and larger in the north, and probably shared the highlands with pastoral nomads who left no remains.[24] Archaeologists and historians attempting to trace the origins of these villagers have found it impossible to identify any distinctive features that could define them as specifically Israelite collared-rim jars and four-room houses have been identified outside the highlands and thus cannot be used to distinguish Israelite sites,[25] and while the pottery of the highland villages is far more limited than that of lowland Canaanite sites, it develops typologically out of Canaanite pottery that came before.[26] Israel Finkelstein proposed that the oval or circular layout that distinguishes some of the earliest highland sites, and the notable absence of pig bones from hill sites, could be taken as a marker of ethnicity, but others have cautioned that these can be a "common-sense" adaptation to highland life and not necessarily revelatory of origins.[27] Other Aramaean sites also demonstrate a contemporary absence of pig remains at that time, unlike earlier Canaanite and later Philistine excavations. Modern scholars therefore see Israel arising peacefully and internally in the highlands
F0uad
Well-Known Member
We can say the same about the bible because the bible also mentions there were more then 50 without mentioning there names...
There are prophets in the Quran that are not referred as prophets in the Bible and vice versa, i would say that the Quran mentions the ''Important'' ones for example Adam(p) that you liked to mention.
I think you have to keep in mind that these religions are not 3 different ones but the same...
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Why is there no mention of the lives and times of all of the prophets sent to other races and peoples, why only the ones in the local area. Apparently there were thousands of prophets sent all over the world, why is there no mention of those prophets lives?
And you still have not shown the preaching of Adam.
What does that mean? It is not an answer to my question.
there are story about Prophets/persons , i don't think that they mentioned in Torah or Bible, i know some of them :
Saleh (pbuh)
Saleh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khidr (pbuh)
Khidr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dhul-Qarnayn (we don't know if he prophet or not )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn
We don't know why God did not mention All the prophets and messangers , maybe we had the best exemple , they close to us in race and region ( the jews ) .
I guess there is only 25 prophets and messangers mentionned in the Quran .
i don't think that we need to know about ALL the messangers and (their stories) around the world that God sent .
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
No the hypothetical doesn't say that. All it says is if Judaism and Christianity didn't exist and hence the scriptures of those two religions which has the stories of Adam, Noah, Abraahm etc. didn't exist. You can't just assume that just because those two scriptures didn't exist that everything else before that would get wiped off or that the stories wouldn't continue to exist via other means.
And by the way, regarding the above statement - first of all, the numbers are incorrect. But regardless of the actual number of years, we can see from history itself how the Jews accepted Jesus(pbubh) just 600yrs before Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) with open arms
even with all those accepted history. That clearly proves that availability of the historical information would have no bearing on the belief of the people.
gnostic
The Lost One
loveroftruth said:
I would believe it MORE, if the exact opposite of what you saying to be true.
The whole revelation thingy is more of supernatural and superstitious god-did-it hocus-pocus, which rely more on FAITH & BELIEF. It is nothing that you can prove. And it is LESS believable.
Revelation or scripture can't prove itself. It is faith-based, not evidence-based...and it doesn't take a genius for you to know what I prefer.
How do we know that the so-called revelation is not a LIE?
Just because Muhammad claimed that he was visit by Gabriel, doesn't make it true. How do we know for certain that the Qur'an come from God? How do we know he didn't get many of the stories from contemporary Jews and Christians, and embellished it some more?
Just because the gospels say that Jesus was son of God, and he was resurrected afterward, doesn't mean it is true.
And just because the Exodus narrate the plagues, Moses parting of the Red Sea (or more likely sea of reeds), and supposedly had revelation about his ancestors (Adam, Noah, Abraham), doesn't make any of these to be true.
There is no way that you can supply evidences to support of the above claims to be true. That's why (all) religion is based on faith, and not evidences. It is why we call Islam, Christianity and Judaism - religions - and not science.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Lol, what a side-turn you went from can ''Islam exist without Christianity or Judaism'' to a Religion vs Atheist debate.
Let me ask you something if a person never lied and all witnesses confirmed this even hes enemies and hes one of the most historical persons in history, for example we know so much about him we even how much grey hairs he had on hes beard.
Would you belief the claim that he never lied?
or would you consider him a liar...
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gnostic
The Lost One
f0uad said:
Don't be an idiot.
I don't deny that Muhammad is historical person. I have never said Muhammad didn't exist. Where did I say that?
What I have doubts is Muhammad's claims of being visit by angel Gabriel. Can anyone verify of such meeting? Did anyone else (these so-called "witnesses" of yours) seen Gabriel, himself (themselves)?
No, I don't think so. They just believe whatever Muhammad told his followers, so that's really not the same thing as there being witnesses to the visitation. You only have Muhammad's words that such meeting took place.
What you're saying and what I am saying are 2 different things. Just because Muhammad is historical person, doesn't mean his claim about the VISIT (from Gabriel) to be historical or verifiably true.
Just as we know that Joseph Smith to be a historical person, doesn't mean that he was really visited by angel Moroni.
PS. I refused to be dictate on what answer I give you. If I want to say yes or no, then I will do so. Don't try to control to my answer.
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F0uad
Well-Known Member
No you didn't understand me....
I never said you denied Mohammed(saws) being a historical person or that makes him a true prophet i simply asked if the person never lied according to witnesses and hes enemies and that historical evidence supports it would you belief the person (I am not talking about Mohammed''saws'' in per-see or revelation)
I was simply giving a question, i later said do not consider it as evidence.
So please re-read my question and answer it if possible and wanted..
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gnostic
The Lost One
f0ud said:
I refused to be dictate on what answer I give you. If I want to say yes or no, then I will do so. Don't try to control to my answer.
I gave you my answer. TOUGH!
My BELIEF is related to evidence, not on FAITH. I required evidences before I can accept any belief. You want me to answer it with FAITH, which I can't do.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I refused to be dictate on what answer I give you. If I want to say yes or no, then I will do so. Don't try to control to my answer.
I gave you my answer.
My BELIEF is related to evidence, not on FAITH. I required evidences before I can accept any belief. You want me to answer it with FAITH, which I can't do.
Sorry.
Ps: I have edited my previous post.