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Could Jesus Have Been Simply a Fraud?

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steeltoes

Junior member
AmbiguousGuy said:
If Jesus was not historical, then the Jesus Game is meaningless. It would be like arguing over Paul Bunyon's true ax-wielding prowess. Could he really split a 36" log with a single swipe, as is recorded in some accounts? Or did it take him three chops, as sworn to in other accounts?

No, we can't argue over the nature of a mythical being, not with a straight face.

So Jesus must have existed as an historical person.
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Yes, and since the gospels can't be relied on for anything we must decide what really and truly happened because Jesus was a poor peasant Jewish teacher made into a God, a hero fighting for the little guy, he just has to be real, you just can't make that stuff up. With the proper education we can see that he was real and truly existed, must read more Christian scholarship.
 
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steeltoes

Junior member
outhouse said:
Exactly.

Every mythicist arguement has been successfully refuted, and no credible replacement hypothesis explains the evidence we are left with.
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So true, the evidence we are left with is evidence for an historical Jesus, truly a gift from God. :rolleyes:
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
steeltoes said:
Yes, and since the gospels can't be relied on for anything we must decide what really and truly happened because Jesus was a poor peasant Jewish teacher made into a God, a hero fighting for the little guy, he just has to be real, you just can't make that stuff up. With the proper education we can see that he was real and truly existed, must read more Christian scholarship.
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A god who walked among us, did many miracles, sacrificed Himself for us, and ascended to Heaven to wait there with His Father for the moment when He will come back for us... to take us believers unto Himself?

Obviously you just can't make that stuff up.

You know what I find curious? People have been writing gospels for two thousand years now. They're as ubiquitous as vampire tales. But try to get a Historical Jesuser to discuss the Jesus history as contained in the Book of Mormon. They'll just snicker. But at the same time, they'll take gJohn dead seriously.

I find it pretty weird anyway. It seems some of us prefer to live within the cultural assumption. gJohn is canonical, after all.
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Every mythicist arguement has been successfully refuted, and no credible replacement hypothesis explains the evidence we are left with.
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My mythicist argument makes grown men run away and hide behind their mama's aprons! None is brave enough to face it.

Meanwhile, all historical-Jesus arguments are empty and easily refuted.

[thumbs in ears, fingers fluttering at you.]
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
AmbiguousGuy said:
My mythicist argument makes grown men run away and hide behind their mama's aprons! None is brave enough to face it.

Meanwhile, all historical-Jesus arguments are empty and easily refuted.

[thumbs in ears, fingers fluttering at you.]
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The mythicist position has been so refuted, only two scholasr out of thousands follow this position.

Both are laughed at and not taken seriously.

The last mythicist forum has died, and the new one [Peter Kirby] takes a more neutral position.

You could find friends at the Zitgiest forum I suppose where pseudo-scholarships are king.
 
S

steeltoes

Junior member
AmbiguousGuy said:
My mythicist argument makes grown men run away and hide behind their mama's aprons! None is brave enough to face it.

Meanwhile, all historical-Jesus arguments are empty and easily refuted.

[thumbs in ears, fingers fluttering at you.]
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LOL, somehow I think the irony will be lost on outhouse.
 
S

steeltoes

Junior member
outhouse said:
The mythicist position has been so refuted, only two scholasr out of thousands follow this position.

Both are laughed at and not taken seriously.

The last mythicist forum has died, and the new one [Peter Kirby] takes a more neutral position.

You could find friends at the Zitgiest forum I suppose where pseudo-scholarships are king.
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Romans 14:11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"



Obviously that goes for the historical Jesus as well.
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
The mythicist position has been so refuted, only two scholasr out of thousands follow this position.

Both are laughed at and not taken seriously.
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Then how come you refuse to engage my mythicist position? What frightens you about the thought of doing that?

Can you say?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
AmbiguousGuy said:
Then how come you refuse to engage my mythicist position? What frightens you about the thought of doing that?

Can you say?
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Waist of time.

Supply a replacement hypothesis, and I will.

99.9% of mythicist only attack scholarships like creationist attack evolution.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
outhouse said:
I have to agree whole hearted.





Absolutely correct.

Well known and documented that Romans policed the Temple and often butchered Jews, and Galileans were pretty much top of that list.






At Passover there would have been thousands of characters like Jesus teaching and preaching.

Starting a riot on the other hand gets one noticed by the Romans.



Exactly!

The gospel of Mark was produced for a Roman audience, making Jews look like the bad guys. The division of Jews form this movement needs to be addressed in proper context.

It would have never reflected the Jewish hatred for its Roman enemies nor focussed on Roman control and oppression.





You do with me.


I find your view right as rain.
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Thanks for the above, but I"m still not going on a date with you know matter how many times you ask! ;)
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
AmbiguousGuy said:
Give me a break. I supply it again and again. But it seems to strike you mute.



99.9% of Historical-Jesusers fawn over their favorite scholars like lapdogs yearning to be thrown a porkchop!
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So attacking scholarships and providing pseudo-scholarships while appealing to ignorance, is correct methodology?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
AmbiguousGuy said:
I don't think so, but the HJ crowd can't be reasoned with so I don't think they'll stop that kind of behavior.

Nanny-nanny boo boo.
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Thats because it looks like you have to discount evidence, like creationist do to evolution which is now fact.

And they make the same claims you do.
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
Wow, this is a hardline debate.

What is the "mythicist position"?
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It is debate at its finest, with subtle talking points and exquisite wordsmithing... yes?

The 'mythicist position' -- so far as I can tell -- is an insult which Jesus Gamers direct at anyone who sees the historical Jesus differently than they do.

Sorry. Wish I could tell you more. You should ask outhouse about it. He uses the term a lot.
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Thats because it looks like you have to discount evidence, like creationist do to evolution which is now fact.

And they make the same claims you do.
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Creationists make the same claims I do? How interesting. Can you recount a couple of those claims for us?
 
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