Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Rick O'Shez]

How many bottles of whiskey...er...Jack...do I need to drink before I before I have a mystical experience like you and Alan Watts?

Sadly it would seem that Alan Watts drank himself to death, so you have to wonder about the authenticity of his"insights", and why those insights didn't bring him peace and happiness.

 

[godnotgod]

So why call it an "actor" if it is there is no action?

The 'act-or' is only pretending that there is. That's what an actor does: he creates an illusion of something that only seems real.

Why is there is such thing as "play" or "maya" if there is only pure nothingness as you say?

Because Everything comes out of it as play. Precisely because there is Nothing, there is Everything. Otherwise, how could Everything possibly come into play? As Ray Griggs, author of 'The Tao of Zen' says: 'Nothingness is Emptiness at its most allowing.' Nothingness is limitless and infinite. It is the fundamental Reality. As the 6th Zen Patriarch stated: 'From the very beginning, not a single thing exists.'

The world itself (maya) is the result of play (leela) to the extent that The Universe is none other than The Absolute, but seen through the glass (conditioned mind) of Time, Space, and Causality. You see a Universe composed of things, changing all the time, in time and space, because that is how your mind is conditioned to see it, but you are unaware of it's conditioning.

"If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

http://quanta-gaia.org/dobson/EquationsOfMaya.html

Why call that nothingness consciousness if there is no thinking, sensing or feeling? Pure nothingness would be theoretically devoid of awareness or consciousness...devoid of everything. It seems to me you do nothing but contradict yourself with every sentence.

Consciousness is not a thing that exists in Time and Space. It is Unborn, Ungrown, and Unconditioned. It has no history; no memory, and leaves no trace. Like a perfect mirror, it perfectly reflects everything, yet retains nothing. That is Nothingness. Because it is Nothingness, there is nothing to contaminate it; it is pure, ie; 'clear' through and through.
You are thinking of Mind, which is the agent of thought, sensing and feeling. Mind comes and goes, and exists in Time and Space, since it's focus is objects. Mind is the dual world of 'this'' and 'that'. Mind is conditioned. It stands in the way between you and Reality.

Consciousness is the world of Oneness, where "the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation merge into a single reality." It sees things as they actually are, whereas Mind attempts to create a conceptual framework through which it incorrectly sees Reality.

I thnk you're still trying to conceptualize 'Nothing' as being 'something'. You cannot encapsulate it with your mind. You cannot encapsulate the Infinite with the finite.

 

[godnotgod]

Sadly it would seem that Alan Watts drank himself to death, so you have to wonder about the authenticity of his"insights", and why those insights didn't bring him peace and happiness.

So you've been listening to Alan Watts, have you? Shame on you! Don't you know that kind of crap will rot your mind? Now go to your room!

As someone on another forum replied to the accusations about Mr. Watts:

"Can't see past the booze and the broads to the brilliance?"

I'm not a two-faced moralist, thank you very much.

Funny, here in the 2000's, Mr. Watts, though rotting away in his grave, is enjoying a huge resurgence of interest all around the world, more popular than when he was alive. Seems his message speaks authentically to more than one generation of people seeking sanity and genuine happiness in a world gone mad. I LOVE Mr. Alan Watts....and Chopra, and Goswami..and Penrose, and Capra, et al.

...and, of course, Osho...

edit: someone on YouTube commented about Mr. Watts:

"Discovering this man on Youtube was one of the best things that have happened in my life! I prayd God for a while to let me meet a something like a wiseman. Never thought it would be a philosopher from the past on Youtube "

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, my wall is very high indeed. I can clearly see right over that big steaming pile of sh**t you call your mystic viewpoint.

So why do you persist in endlessly banging your head against an impenetrable wall made of case-hardened, sun-baked sh*t? Because it feels so good? Honestly! The things some people do to get their kix!

 

[godnotgod]

Sadly it would seem that Alan Watts drank himself to death, so you have to wonder about the authenticity of his"insights", and why those insights didn't bring him peace and happiness.

So you've found something Mr. Watts has stated that reflects a distortion in his thinking due to drinking alcohol? Bring it.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The 'act-or' is only pretending that there is. That's what an actor does: he creates an illusion of something that only seems real.



Because Everything comes out of it as play. Precisely because there is Nothing, there is Everything. Otherwise, how could Everything possibly come into play? As Ray Griggs, author of 'The Tao of Zen' says: 'Nothingness is Emptiness at its most allowing.' Nothingness is limitless and infinite. It is the fundamental Reality. As the 6th Zen Patriarch stated: 'From the very beginning, not a single thing exists.'

The world itself (maya) is the result of play (leela) to the extent that The Universe is none other than The Absolute, but seen through the glass (conditioned mind) of Time, Space, and Causality. You see a Universe composed of things, changing all the time, in time and space, because that is how your mind is conditioned to see it, but you are unaware of it's conditioning.

"If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

http://quanta-gaia.org/dobson/EquationsOfMaya.html



Consciousness is not a thing that exists in Time and Space. It is Unborn, Ungrown, and Unconditioned. It has no history; no memory, and leaves no trace. Like a perfect mirror, it perfectly reflects everything, yet retains nothing. That is Nothingness. Because it is Nothingness, there is nothing to contaminate it; it is pure, ie; 'clear' through and through.
You are thinking of Mind, which is the agent of thought, sensing and feeling. Mind comes and goes, and exists in Time and Space, since it's focus is objects. Mind is the dual world of 'this'' and 'that'. Mind is conditioned. It stands in the way between you and Reality.

Consciousness is the world of Oneness, where "the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation merge into a single reality." It sees things as they actually are, whereas Mind attempts to create a conceptual framework through which it incorrectly sees Reality.

I thnk you're still trying to conceptualize 'Nothing' as being 'something'. You cannot encapsulate it with your mind. You cannot encapsulate the Infinite with the finite.

Pretending, creating, playing, acting, coming out of.... Why bother with all these "action" terms if what you really mean is non-action or nothingness?

 

[godnotgod]

 

[Rick O'Shez]

 

[godnotgod]

Pretending, creating, playing, acting, coming out of.... Why bother with all these "action" terms if what you really mean is non-action or nothingness?

Simply because, from the POV of Higher Consciousness, it is only The Changeless that is true Reality manifesting as Change, but from the POV of conditioned awareness, ie life on the 3rd level of consciousness, that of Identification, everything is Change. The Two are actually one and the same Reality. The character is none other than the actor; the universe is none other than The Absolute.

 

[godnotgod]

What kinda sh*t you been smokin', and why is the bag half-empty? You gonna pay, sucka!

(so, have you found your mind yet so you can still it?)

 

[`mud]

Pertaining to the O.P.
and nothing and stuff....
...could 'nothingness' be a 'dimension' ? At all ?
What else beyond the absense of direction could there be ?
Could 'it' exist outside the boundries of 'itself' ?
Could it be that 'nothingness' never existed ?
BOY....that would be a cluster.... !
~
'mud

 

[Unification]

LOL! Okay...so it's become quite apparent that you have NO idea what I've been talking about all along here.


I am NOT discussing matter. Matter is 99.9999% empty space anyway. What my theory pertains to specifically are the Fundamental Interactions...electromagnetism, gravity, strong nuclear and weak nuclear forces. These are the interactive fields which give us the illusion of solid matter. They are the very reason why energy changes form. Do you know what electromagnetism is? Light.

Energy and light are not "conscious". Nothing is truly "conscious". Everthing...all matter and energy is interactive, due to those Fundamental Forces.

I understand what you've been talking about. Your theory is fine. It's simple. It's a foundation of naming forces and just saying they all interact differently. It's the basic of the most basic foundations which stops and explains nothing.

It's very deceptive to say that light is just electromagnetism rather than radiation, etc. You are contradicting yourself. Making light out to be and seem like just a dead visible attribute of matter while talking about more complex light and simpler light at the same time and making it all about "matter."

You seem to be, and are still discussing it. An all-material universe.

"Matter is 99.9999% empty space."

Empty space is empty space and is not "matter."

They are not all fundamental. The alpha constant is really not constant and fundamental. The force of electromagnetic interaction between charged particles.

We've already established that they are not a true separate "consciousness." Certain light/energy carry information/instruction/DNA in packets of quanta. This is the complex matter you keep talking about but it's not matter. It has no mass, form, and is pure.

I like to think of it as light informing particles. Instructions on what to do and how to form. The particles don't contain information/instruction/DNA themselves. The waves IN them do.

 

[Unification]

You seem to be in contradiction to your own ideas: if light/energy is conscious, and matter is a lower form of light/energy, then matter must, via logic, also be conscious. But herein lies the problem: it is not that matter OR light is conscious or not-conscious: it is that consciousness itself is manifesting the entire phenomenal world, essentially the entire Universe, which is light, space, and matter. Consciousness belongs to the Silent Invisible World and as such, is beyond Time and Space. IOW, there are not things or beings that are conscious, as consciousness itself is beyond all things; things and beings are being manifested BY consciousness, in the same way that a character in a play is not a real character, but the actor behind the mask is manifesting/playing itself as the character. In the same sense, consciousness is playing itself as the world. The only way that something that is silent and invisible can manifest light, space, and the 'material' world is if light, space, and the material world are appearances, albeit thoroughly convincing appearances, only seeming to be real.

We are saying the same things in different words and ways. Pure energy belongs to the invisible world also and light has been shown to be beyond time and space. You say consciousness is playing itself as the world. I am saying the energy/light is playing itself as the world. It's all a manifestation in and out of and from itself.

Matter isn't conscious. It's the more complex, pure light/waves/energy that are in the particles that contain information/instruction/DNA. Not all light/waves/energy carry information/instruction/DNA. . not the ones with mass.

Things and being's and the phenomenal world are being manifested by numerous and various invisible massless energy.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Pure energy belongs to the invisible world also and light has been shown to be beyond time and space. You say consciousness is playing itself as the world. I am saying the energy/light is playing itself as the world. It's all a manifestation in and out of and from itself. .....Things and being's and the phenomenal world are being manifested by numerous and various invisible massless energy.

Could you explain what you mean by "pure energy", "invisible world" and "invisible massless energy"?

 

[Runewolf1973]

I understand what you've been talking about. Your theory is fine. It's simple. It's a foundation of naming forces and just saying they all interact differently. It's the basic of the most basic foundations which stops and explains nothing.

It's very deceptive to say that light is just electromagnetism rather than radiation, etc. You are contradicting yourself. Making light out to be and seem like just a dead visible attribute of matter while talking about more complex light and simpler light at the same time and making it all about "matter."

You seem to be, and are still discussing it. An all-material universe.

"Matter is 99.9999% empty space."

Empty space is empty space and is not "matter."

They are not all fundamental. The alpha constant is really not constant and fundamental. The force of electromagnetic interaction between charged particles.

We've already established that they are not a true separate "consciousness." Certain light/energy carry information/instruction/DNA in packets of quanta. This is the complex matter you keep talking about but it's not matter. It has no mass, form, and is pure.

I like to think of it as light informing particles. Instructions on what to do and how to form. The particles don't contain information/instruction/DNA themselves. The waves IN them do.

What is deceptive is that you try to pawn off this pseudoscientific nonsense as real science.

 

[outhouse]

Could you explain what you mean by "pure energy", "invisible world" and "invisible massless energy"?

I call it imagination

 

[Unification]

What is deceptive is that you try to pawn off this pseudoscientific nonsense as real science.

Elaborate on which you feel is not science and nonsense.

Otherwise, your opinion is appreciated.

 

[Unification]

Could you explain what you mean by "pure energy", "invisible world" and "invisible massless energy"?

Already did.

Pure energy: having no substance, form, or mass.

Invisible world: what you can't visibly see.

Invisible massless energy: energy that has no mass and is not visibly seen.

 

[Unification]

I call it imagination

Bud, I already know that you have supernatural vision to see the entire universe with your eyes.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

From the POV of Higher Pure Ultimate Cosmic Consciousness, it is only The Changeless Ultimate Reality Nothingness Thingy manifesting as Ultimate Universal Background Change Somethingness Whatsit, but from the POV of the 3rd level of consciousness Maya is seen through a glass deeply beyond Time and Space so IOW Two is none other than One...