Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Unification]

I bet the moon gets really fed up with people pointing fingers at it.

I bet the moon doesn't even exist with no one looking at it. Forgive me if I've reified consciousness again, since mind is all that there is.

 

[YmirGF]

I agree, nothing "needs" suppressed ..only if the human being is tired of their self-created suffering, and wants to seek peace and rest.

Do you see that a human's nature is only animal?

If we are animals, how is there not a beast within us?

This is more reality for me:
Ie: on my honeymoon, someone broke into my car and stole a digital camera.
The beast within me instantly wanted to get angry, rage and blame. The good in me instantly forgave, forgot about it, didn't allow anger to consume me, and realized I shouldn't have left it in the car and it's just material.

Ie: someone says something I don't like. The beast in me wants to react emotionally, retaliate, condescend, point fingers. The good in me wants to listen and respond, self-critique, forgives, has control over the tongue, and squashes what the beast wants.

We are obviously quite different. I internalize almost everything. In example one I would likely think, "You nitwit, you left the camera in the car. DOH!" I wouldn't be angry someone stole it. I tend to be fairly anal though and would have made sure the car was empty before I walked away. It's part of my sense of order, if you will.
In example two, I have managed to master the art of the subtle insult, but will "fact check" before the hurling begins. Frankly, I don't run into this much.

 

[Unification]

We are obviously quite different. I internalize almost everything. In example one I would likely think, "You nitwit, you left the camera in the car. DOH!" I wouldn't be angry someone stole it. I tend to be fairly anal though and would have made sure the car was empty before I walked away. It's part of my sense of order, if you will.
In example two, I have managed to master the art of the subtle insult, but will "fact check" before the hurling begins. Frankly, I don't run into this much.

Exactly as I thought, it was my fault and I was the nitwit for leaving it in the car, self-responsibility. Short term memory and move on.

How are facts checked?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Nature exoteric to you or nature within you?

No finger pointing, I believe the finger pointing was at "mystics."

The moon isn't a respector of persons, nor is nature. The moon or nature doesn't see someone as a "mystic," it would see someone as a human being.

That's just what happens when someone sticks their finger out...it gets noticed. I was not pointing any fingers, I was merely making an observation. The moon does not distinguish between living or dead, conscious or unconscious, animal or plant life. It does not discriminate. The moon just does what the moon does...interacting in a timeless, selfless manner.

 

[YmirGF]

How are facts checked?

Checking a given narrative against my own internal database. It's not perfect, but it seems to work most of the time.

 

[Unification]

That's just what happens when someone sticks their finger out...it gets noticed. I was not pointing any fingers, I was merely making an observation. The moon does not distinguish between living or dead, conscious or unconscious, animal or plant life. It does not discriminate. The moon just does what the moon does...interacting in a timeless, selfless manner.

True, and agree. I was making an observation also that it's a strong tendency to have preconcieved assumptions and conditioning on "Mystics" by throwing them all in the same category.

It would no different than me seeing "Shamanism" and automatically judging and classifying you. That would be ignorance and delusion. I see you as a unique human being just like me. The things you feel, I feel. The same cosmos you see, I see. A mystic and a Shaman are human beings for me. My mind doesn't see words or labels and has instant assumption because of a conditioned mind.

 

[Runewolf1973]

True, and agree. I was making an observation also that it's a strong tendency to have preconcieved assumptions and conditioning on "Mystics" by throwing them all in the same category.

It would no different than me seeing "Shamanism" and automatically judging and classifying you. That would be ignorance and delusion. I see you as a unique human being just like me. The things you feel, I feel. The same cosmos you see, I see. A mystic and a Shaman are human beings for me. My mind doesn't see words or labels and has instant assumption because of a conditioned mind.

Sure your mind sees words and labels and colors and changes. Our minds are conditioned to do so and it is natural for us because we evolved that way. But the mind can be deceiving, and that's why they say you should trust your heart and not your head.

 

[godnotgod]

So stop pointing fingers at the moon and let the moon do the pointing. Nature is my only teacher.

If you are one with nature, the pointing finger is as well.

If people were not running around in a kind of waking sleep, thinking to be awake, their minds directed by others whims rather than the pure consciousness that lies within, there would be no need for such pointing.

Most of humanity, in spite of the flowery picture the mouse has of it, is driven by 3 addictions: Power, Sensation, and Security, all of which lead to delusion and misery. The current state of the world, as Papoon so eloquently pointed out, is the direct outcome of these 3 addictions, all in turn the result of programming by others for their own benefit. In pursuing these goals, people think they are in control. Only via a transformation of consciousness can they be made aware that they are not in control, and in fact, are manipulated by others. The first thing toward such a transformation is to be made aware of the actual situation. Hence the pointing finger.

Not sure why you object so much to pointing to the moon. I think you misunderstand the metaphor the moon represents. It is actually pointing to nature, or Reality, what you pointed to as being your teacher. You should take up pointing yourself. It's simple and direct.

 

[godnotgod]

Never has so much nonsense been spouted by so few.

"Now, now, boys. Let's stop this nonsense. I've come to straighten you all out"

 

[godnotgod]

I have a very low carbon footprint and I don't waste anything. I try not to make things any worse. What else do you think I should be doing? What are you doing about it?

I think much of this individual action towards solving the problem is like spitting into the wind, while the corporations and governments of the world negate anything we try. Realize one thing: from their POV, we are expendable. They're just laughing at our puny efforts and see us as being in their way. Monsanto Corp is one example of a hideous and truly evil worldwide corporate presence. Look it up. They could care less about our 'low carbon footprint'.

They'll just bulldoze right over us and use the law to do it!

Don't get me wrong: I, too, have a LCF. It's part of my 'New Age Hinduism' thinking, LOL.

 

[godnotgod]

That is unfortunate but I am quite sure there are good reasons why you think the way you do.

Maybe he sees something you do not. I detect what is called 'the prophetic tradition' in Papoon's consciousness, something lacking or unawakened in yours.

 

[godnotgod]

Sure your mind sees words and labels and colors and changes. Our minds are conditioned to do so and it is natural for us because we evolved that way. But the mind can be deceiving, and that's why they say you should trust your heart and not your head.

The heart is also deceiving. What is required is a balanced view between intellect and heart, what Yeshu referred to as being 'wise as serpents and harmless as doves'.

Lean too far one way, and you are directed by the brittle and unbending intellect; too far the other way and you are directed by your uncontrollable passions. Either way is destructive.

 

[YmirGF]

Maybe he sees something you do not. I detect what is called 'the prophetic tradition' in Papoon's consciousness, something lacking or unawakened in yours.

I hadn't realized that this so-called 'prophetic tradition', like yourself, was utterly devoid of understanding and compassion. Screw the prophets of doom!

 

[Papoon]

Holy negative hysteria, Batman. Clearly, like godnotgod, you have a rather dim view of the "modern" world. Though I understand that the world has its problems and challenges, I don't see it in the extremely negative way that you describe above. In some ways we live in the most spectacular of times this world has seen. I have a tremendous amount of "faith" in my fellow human animals and believe, perhaps naively, that humanity will rise to face its challenges... be it global warming/climate change, the threat of Islamic fanatics... etc... I don't believe in an Illuminati-like 1% who are so fueled by their lust for power and control they are willing to sacrifice us on the altar of desolation and destruction. I like to think I am a pragmatic realist and am surrounded by many like-minded individuals. My glass is half full, but it sounds like yours is less than half empty. That is unfortunate but I am quite sure there are good reasons why you think the way you do.

I don't think the answer to the problems facing humanity is to promote more lies and shadow truths. I think human animals are mature enough to hear a more realistic narrative than what is being trotted out in this thread. I know I don't treat most humans as if they were mindless children and I don't understand why some tend to think that is the special tonic that is need in our age of the special snowflake syndrome.

If you did a simple analysis of wealth distribution, plotted over time - particularly the last 100 years - you would realise that you are currently hiding under a rock. Do you realise that the 85 wealthiest individuals have wealth equivalent to the 3.5 billion poorest ? That is 85 vs half the human population. You are currently dreaming my friend.

 

[YmirGF]

If you did a simple analysis of wealth distribution, plotted over time - particularly the last 100 years - you would realise that you are currently hiding under a rock. Do you realise that the 85 wealthiest individuals have wealth equivalent to the 3.5 billion poorest ? That is 85 vs half the human population. You are currently dreaming my friend.

Have it your way. This is not the place to discuss the lunatic fringe's views on wealth distribution. No doubt a large percentage of the uber wealthy are Jewish or Alien lizard people.

 

[Unification]

I was looking at the moon through a telescope last year, fantastic, I hadn't realised there were so many craters. Unfortunately there's a lot of light pollution where I live but there is nothing better than finding somewhere remote and looking up at the night sky. Gorgeous!

http://www.biontology.com/research/what-is-biophoton-science/

 

[Runewolf1973]

The heart is also deceiving. What is required is a balanced view between intellect and heart, what Yeshu referred to as being 'wise as serpents and harmless as doves'.

Lean too far one way, and you are directed by the brittle and unbending intellect; too far the other way and you are directed by your uncontrollable passions. Either way is destructive.

Well that's just plain common sense...or maybe not so common. A balanced view is key.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If you are one with nature, the pointing finger is as well.

If people were not running around in a kind of waking sleep, thinking to be awake, their minds directed by others whims rather than the pure consciousness that lies within, there would be no need for such pointing.

Most of humanity, in spite of the flowery picture the mouse has of it, is driven by 3 addictions: Power, Sensation, and Security, all of which lead to delusion and misery. The current state of the world, as Papoon so eloquently pointed out, is the direct outcome of these 3 addictions, all in turn the result of programming by others for their own benefit. In pursuing these goals, people think they are in control. Only via a transformation of consciousness can they be made aware that they are not in control, and in fact, are manipulated by others. The first thing toward such a transformation is to be made aware of the actual situation. Hence the pointing finger.

Not sure why you object so much to pointing to the moon. I think you misunderstand the metaphor the moon represents. It is actually pointing to nature, or Reality, what you pointed to as being your teacher. You should take up pointing yourself. It's simple and direct.

The moon isn't pushy or opinionated, nor does it sit there and tell you that you are looking at it the wrong way.

 

[Unification]

I was looking at the moon through a telescope last year, fantastic, I hadn't realised there were so many craters. Unfortunately there's a lot of light pollution where I live but there is nothing better than finding somewhere remote and looking up at the night sky. Gorgeous!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton

 

[godnotgod]

I hadn't realized that this so-called 'prophetic tradition', like yourself, was utterly devoid of understanding and compassion. Screw the prophets of doom!

Sorry you persist and insist in your ignorance.

Higher Consciousness goes hand in hand with the nurturing of compassion. That's why it can be called 'Higher Consciousness". Being a bodhisattva, you should know that, but then maybe you're not a bodhisattva.

FYI, people like Martin Luther King, for example, practiced the prophetic tradition.

Just because Papoon points out Reality to you right in front of your face, and you don't like what you see, does not mean he is a 'prophet of doom'. It only means you are in denial and still living back in the 1970's. Not spiffy.