Covid: ICU nurse speaks out

[Twilight Hue]

Covid mandates are akin to mandates against open fires in drought dried forest.

Soneone might be able to avoid starting a forest fire, but we don't want to find out.

The mandates typically protect our freedom and by protecting our physical lives.

Sorta like laws that restrict drunk driving, is another good analogy.I

In the U.S. mandates have a short lifespan!

The difference is, mandates don't usually come with a destructive role included in the package.

 

[We Never Know]

My question was direct; the long paragraphs are off topic.

Perhaps your answer will be more pertinent if I rephrase the question: do you expect others to accommodate your decision by, for instance, allowing you into their business and other private venues even if they choose to only allow entry for vaccinated people? Or are you okay with being turned away and accepting that this is an outcome of your decision in said venues?

A unvaccinated person with a negative covid test they had gotten 15 minutes prior is safer to be around than a vaccinated person who doesn't know if they have covid or not.
How can you justify turning the person with the test away but not the vaccinated person?

 

[sun rise]

My question is how does this get people to vaccinate?

It doesn't. People are so self-centered that they ignore anything and everything including the suffering that is going on. They ignore logic, reason, the death of anti-vax ministers, the pleas from those who are dying and leaving orphan children behind. They ignore the suffering that their choices are causing to others.

What's the message you're saying?

The message is that I'm torn up emotionally at the unnecessary suffering that people's essential selfishness and ignorance is causing. I'm besides myself with anger at those who refuse to accept responsibility that comes with freedom. I'm upset enough that I want business and government to enforce consequences on such people.

 

[halbhh]

The difference is, mandates don't usually come with a destructive role included in the package.

America makes mistakes at times, but gradually finds its way as time illuminates more of the path. If we have something bad being imposed, its time is short.

 

[Debater Slayer]

A unvaccinated person with a negative covid test they had gotten 15 minutes prior is safer to be around than a vaccinated person who doesn't know if they have covid or not.
How can you justify turning the person with the test away but not the vaccinated person?

If the test is reliable, I think a case could be made that said person shouldn't be turned away, and there are places that require proof of vaccination or a negative test result. Even France's new nationwide policy operates this way.

That said, since a vaccinated person is less likely (but not impossible) to become infected and serve as a vehicle for further viral mutations, I can also see the point in only accepting proof of vaccination if the purpose is to minimize the mutation of new strains. So it really depends on the purpose and circumstances surrounding the policy.

 

[Father Heathen]

Not any vaccine but rather any or all mandates.

It's just another legal mechanism being placed for totalitarian rule and a few more lost places on the freedom index.

Should speed limits, stop signs, and traffic lights be removed so you can have more freedom on the road, the safety of other drivers be damned?
But wait, you vote republican, the party that opposes gay marriage, reproductive choice, the adult entertainment industry, the gaming industry (as in betting/gambling), cannabis legalization, etc. and that supports mandated prayer and pledges in schools, so you don't get to pretend to care about freedom.

 

[We Never Know]

If the test is reliable, I think a case could be made that said person shouldn't be turned away, and there are places that require proof of vaccination or a negative test result. Even France's new nationwide policy operates this way.

That said, since a vaccinated person is less likely (but not impossible) to become infected and serve as a vehicle for further viral mutations, I can also see the point in only accepting proof of vaccination if the purpose is to minimize the mutation of new strains. So it really depends on the purpose and circumstances surrounding the policy.

Too bad they can't come up with a quick cheap test. Test everyone that wants to enter. Vaccinated or not....Negative and you can enter. Positive and you can't.
Edit... That way its all about stopping the spread period.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Too bad they can't come up with a quick cheap test. Test everyone that wants to enter. Vaccinated or not....Negative and you can enter. Positive and you can't.

I'm most hoping for some sort of anti-COVID medication that could effectively make it no different from the common cold. Take a pill or use a nasal spray and you're almost certainly safe.

We can only hope. I don't know whether vaccines would still be necessary at that point to prevent further mutations, but an easily accessible pill for COVID would really be a wonderful option to have.

 

[We Never Know]

I'm most hoping for some sort of anti-COVID medication that could effectively make it no different from the common cold. Take a pill or use a nasal spray and you're almost certainly safe.

We can only hope. I don't know whether vaccines would still be necessary at that point to prevent further mutations, but an easily accessible pill for COVID would really be a wonderful option to have.

That would be nice but I don't see that happening or they would do that with the flu.

Also I added this to my last post
"Edit... That way its all about stopping the spread period."

 

[Debater Slayer]

That would be nice but I don't see that happening or they would do that with the flu.

Also I added this to my last post
"Edit... That way its all about stopping the spread period."

There are antiviral treatments for the flu, as far as I know. There are also medications that significantly reduce the viral load of HIV. Hopefully there will be something similar for COVID in the future.

I agree requiring negative COVID test results for entry into indoor spaces would probably reduce transmission. Still not a substitute for the expert recommendation to get vaccinated, though.

 

[anna.]

It would be nice. *grin*

You rebel, you.

I can understand cases where mandates like taxes, education, and such are welcome because we live better as a functioning society.

So, if you can pick and choose your mandates, it's a step in the right direction?

However when mandates interferes with personal freedom of choice it's time to take a serious and hard look at the repercussions of doing something like that.

In general, It might help something in the short term, but prove disastrous in the long term in its application to other things that may crop up that the mandate wasn't originally intended for. That's when trouble starts.

When? Don't you think most, if not all socially/civilly imposed mandates interfere with personal freedom of choice by their very nature of being a mandate?

In which case, some mandates (seatbelts) are tolerable, acceptable, even? Laws against drunk driving, building requirements, for example?

 

[Nimos]

No. A lot of people decide not to take it just as they decide not to take any other treatment/med/vaccine/whatever.

It's a deliberate well informed choice that needs no justifications. They made a decision. Most people disagree. Nothing wrong with that. No interior motive. No conspiracies. They just don't want to take it.

There is always a reason, but I think its a bit of a stretch, to say that its a well informed decision. I mean, people are dying from Covid after all and as far as I know, I haven't heard anything negative about the vaccines. Except that one, in the beginning can't remember its name and even that was far below any normal thing you experience daily.

But since you say that it is based on a well informed decision, do you know what information it is based on, that would make them choose not to over simply
getting vaccinated?

I respect the decision they are making and might not be due to some conspiracy or religious motive. But maybe they are afraid of needles or I don't know. But I don't buy that people just don't want to, without any reason for it.

 

[Kenny]

It will be soon. I know I've been followed by the FDA/CDC after my vaccinations on a voluntary basis. I've been asked if there were any side-effects, how my general health was etc.

Ok... but soon isn't approved.

The Johnson & Johnson shot does not.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine delivers DNA to your cells to make the spike protein.

Correct... not RNA but DNA

Your choice affects my economic well-being.

How so?

Your choice affects how overcrowed hospitals become and thus perhaps my life.

Not really. I had Covid and didn't go to the hospital.

Your choice affects peoples lives.

Not really, I am naturally vaccinated

I am all in favor of refusing services, admission to facilities to non-vaccinated people.
I am all in favor of removing health insurance for non-vaccinated people.

Don't like my attitude? Tough.

I'm ok with your position. I'm sure there are some companies that will profit from you position with competition.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps your answer will be more pertinent if I rephrase the question: do you expect others to accommodate your decision by, for instance, allowing you into their business and other private venues even if they choose to only allow entry for vaccinated people? Or are you okay with being turned away and accepting that this is an outcome of your decision in said venues?

No.
But I do not know how this relates to my saying: It's a deliberate well informed choice that needs no justifications. They made a decision.

No.
Unless I did something that made businesses have the right to turn me away (rather than something that I did not do without evidence that it harms anyone), no. It is not okay.

How does this have to do with the OP and what I said???

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The message is that I'm torn up emotionally at the unnecessary suffering that people's essential selfishness and ignorance is causing. I'm besides myself with anger at those who refuse to accept responsibility that comes with freedom. I'm upset enough that I want business and government to enforce consequences on such people.

I'll be honest. I think you could be torn up at the "idea" people are selfish and ignorant. The fact of the matter is assumption of risk and being upset over people taking that assumption of risk isn't really worth the headache (in my opinion). To me, it would be better to see it from the other person's point of view and if you still disagree than that's fine. However, I'd say when you disagree with someone accept their justifications. I know that many take the vaccine out of fear and some don't know the facts anymore than "some" unvaccinated who choose not to take the vaccine. But I understand why they fear so I accept it as is.

I feel you guys are making yourselves upset because it's generalizing the unvaxxed population and telling them (as so read) they are killing others when they are literally not.

Unless you want to force people because you feel they are ticking time bombs to spread the virus, I think a lot of this is on you guys.

Without being open minded you guys can make yourselves upset but at the end of the day the unvaxxed will not choose to vaccinate and unless you take their reasonings into consideration, there's nothing much one can do. We handle our own emotions the best way we can but its not productive to try and justify people as ignorant, selfish, etc in order for your feelings to be warranted.

This is just my opinion and observation.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No.
But I do not know how this relates to my saying: It's a deliberate well informed choice that needs no justifications. They made a decision.

No.
Unless I did something that made businesses have the right to turn me away (rather than something that I did not do without evidence that it harms anyone), no. It is not okay.

How does this have to do with the OP and what I said???

It has to do with the inconsistency in wanting others to say nothing or not blame you for not getting vaccinated because it's a "personal decision" but then turning around and expecting them to accommodate your decision that you claimed was personal in the first place.

And yes, private businesses do have the right to turn people away for not being vaccinated. Otherwise they'd be getting sued and losing the lawsuits for doing so.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is always a reason, but I think its a bit of a stretch, to say that its a well informed decision. I mean, people are dying from Covid after all and as far as I know, I haven't heard anything negative about the vaccines. Except that one, in the beginning can't remember its name and even that was far below any normal thing you experience daily.

How do you know it's not well-informed?
If I hear someone is vaccinated or unvaccinated I know nothing about what they know, don't know, and how they came to their decision just from vaccination status alone.

Not vaccinating doesn't mean they didn't make an inform decision. That's a justification that most likely does not fit every person who choose not to vaccinate.

You haven't heard anything negative? Side affects alone are negative. I mean when we take any medication it will have negative and positive side affects and we weigh the risk versus the benefits and make our decisions from there.

If you see no consequences maybe your decision is based more on confirmed bias than it is well-informed? (Just an honest observation)

But since you say that it is based on a well informed decision, do you know what information it is based on, that would make them choose not to over simply getting vaccinated?

The same information that is available to the vaccinated. For example, both sides have access to CDC and can read the side affects and problems they are investigating as a possible result of the vaccines-insofar to even pause one of them because of it.

People read these things and make decisions based on this information. Unless CDC has misinformation, it's incorrect to say they are not informed just because thousands of people died (it doesn't connect). Just because one says "thousands died" doesn't validate whether said decisions are right or wrong. It's a motivator to make decisions but no inherent connection.

I respect the decision they are making and might not be due to some conspiracy or religious motive. But maybe they are afraid of needles or I don't know. But I don't buy that people just don't want to, without any reason for it.

I think both sides have fear-some extreme like jumping into traffic to avoid passing a stranger for two seconds while others are apprehensious and wear two masks, a sheild, gloves, and things like that. Some people are scared of needles, don't want to take experimental medications for fear of long-term effects, and general sense of uneasiness of how the situation is handled.

The problem is even on RF people list the reasons that are very well understood but you guys don't accept them as reasonable. So, I'd have to ask other than vaccine exemption, what reasons would you accept?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It has to do with the inconsistency in wanting others to say nothing or not blame you for not getting vaccinated because it's a "personal decision" but then turning around and expecting them to accommodate your decision that you claimed was personal in the first place.

And yes, private businesses do have the right to turn people away for not being vaccinated. Otherwise they'd be getting sued and losing the lawsuits for doing so.

I don't see how this relates to the OP. You're assuming "expecting them to accommodate to my decision" without any support for that. I'm actually not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I said in this thread so far.

If its a private business, yes. Of course. If not, then they can get sued for turning people away without evidence that they pose a danger. Claiming someone poses a danger without evidence to show one is is just a claim.

Unless I'm missing something, I thought this had to do with nurse speaking out in the ICU and Sun Rise's feelings about unvaccinated people's choices.

 

[sun rise]

One other comment - it's not just about anti-vaxxers but also those who won't wear masks, tear them off of other people and throw temper tantrums worthy of a 2 year old.

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking I might need a gun to protect myself against those domestic pro-death fanatic terrorists.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This speaks for itself. And it's being replicated all over. And on top of it, the governor of Texas gets covid, freaks out and gets a treatment reserved for those who are in serious condition.
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Upset Covid Frontline Nurse Delivers A Spot-On Twitter Thread On People’s Mistrust In Modern Medicine

This is just emotional propaganda. Unverified Reddit posts and "Bored Panda", a random clickbait e-tabloid?