Covid: ICU nurse speaks out

[Father Heathen]

Yes... each person has to judge, compare, contrast, sup up the proportions and apparently there is some contest as people still have varying viewpoints.

Viewpoints that are rational and substantiated are more valid than those that aren't.

 

[Left Coast]

For example, someone with little contact with people "should" be hold at the same scrutiny as those who are around people?

Just because CDC says you and I are at a risk of catching COVID that means we are both at the same level of risk that depends on where we live, who we are around, etc?

Do you consider how facts apply to some situations more than others?

Yes, I already granted that. And you already granted that unless you never leave your house, you have the ability to endanger high risk people around you.

Do you consider how an action that might be low risk for you might be high risk for someone else?

 

[Father Heathen]

Maybe take a break and come back when you're less emotional

No, for real though. What motivates you to double down?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, I already granted that. And you already granted that unless you never leave your house, you have the ability to endanger high risk people around you.

Do you consider how an action that might be low risk for you might be high risk for someone else?

Yes. All of our actions-intentional and not-affect other people.

I don't apply it in this case because if I'm at a low risk and not around people all the time (in their faces for example), I don't see how others can be at a high risk being around me from "what I know." In other words, like anything else, if someone catches COVID from me it wouldn't be intentional (if they could prove it was from me). I don't know everyone else's health conditions, morals, and all of that to determine what level of risk they are relative to mine.

Without the internet and masks, the pandemic is pretty much invisible to me. I'm not around people and in their faces so much to know how I affect other people by what I choose not to do.

 

[Kenny]

My comparison was intended to be non-controversial, as I assumed you'd agree the Earth is round.

You do, right?

As you stated....

"I don't think derailing this thread into a debate" about the roundness of the earth is even relevant.

 

[Kenny]

Most of what problem?

Todays' confusion and confidence in its positions.

 

[Father Heathen]

As you stated....

"I don't think derailing this thread into a debate" about the roundness of the earth is even relevant.

So you are a flat-earther?

 

[Left Coast]

Yes. All of our actions-intentional and not-affect other people.

I don't apply it in this case because if I'm at a low risk and not around people all the time (in their faces for example), I don't see how others can be at a high risk being around me from "what I know." In other words, like anything else, if someone catches COVID from me it wouldn't be intentional (if they could prove it was from me). I don't know everyone else's health conditions, morals, and all of that to determine what level of risk they are relative to mine.

Without the internet and masks, the pandemic is pretty much invisible to me. I'm not around people and in their faces so much to know how I affect other people by what I choose not to do.

I appreciate that honesty. The thing is, this is how community spread of disease happens - people unintentionally pass on illness from one person to the next. You cough or sneeze and those germs go into the air that someone else breathes. You touch a surface and someone else then touches the same surface and picks up your germs. And so on. So what you know about your individual risk factors does not give you the entire picture of how your action or inaction affects others. So vaccination provides you and those around you with an additional layer of protection, which helps not just you but especially those high risk people around you who you may not even know are high risk.

 

[Kenny]

So you are a flat-earther?

LOL - Quit clowning, my friend.

 

[Left Coast]

As you stated....

"I don't think derailing this thread into a debate" about the roundness of the earth is even relevant.

My assumption was that mentioning the roundness of the Earth would not generate debate, because we'd both agree on it without a second thought. Do we not?

Suffice it to simply say that "people disagree" is not a rational reply to this dispute. People disagree about all kinds of things. That doesn't mean both sides of the dispute have equally rational or evidence-based arguments.

 

[Left Coast]

Todays' confusion and confidence in its positions.

Today's confusion and lack of confidence in reputable medical and public health authorities is largely a result of misinformation put out by third parties - websites and blogs and YouTube videos by nonexperts, talk radio, etc.

 

[metis]

Today's confusion and lack of confidence in reputable medical and public health authorities is largely a result of misinformation put out by third parties - websites and blogs and YouTube videos by nonexperts, talk radio, etc.

And that motion I have to second as most of the people I personally know who are "questioning" the science of covid and climate change are doing so largely because of their political positions. I wish they'd use a pro-life position instead and go with that which saves lives.

 

[Left Coast]

And that motion I have to second as most of the people I personally know who are "questioning" the science of covid and climate change are doing so largely because of their political positions. I wish they'd use a pro-life position instead and go with that which saves lives.

As you well know "pro-life" rarely extends beyond the womb for people who identify that way.

 

[metis]

As you well know "pro-life" rarely extends beyond the womb for people who identify that way.

My experience is that, unfortunately, you seemingly are correct.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I appreciate that honesty. The thing is, this is how community spread of disease happens - people unintentionally pass on illness from one person to the next. You cough or sneeze and those germs go into the air that someone else breathes. You touch a surface and someone else then touches the same surface and picks up your germs. And so on. So what you know about your individual risk factors does not give you the entire picture of how your action or inaction affects others. So vaccination provides you and those around you with an additional layer of protection, which helps not just you but especially those high risk people around you who you may not even know are high risk.

We never have the entire picture and never will. I'm not concerned that I may be asymptomatic unless I increased my risk by being around say people, going out of the area, or so have you. I'm kinesthetic and visual person.... emotions like fear etc come from what I see and experience not what I read and what people tell me not in my area.

There's only but so many ways I can honestly explain it really. It's one of those live and let live type of things. Just know most likely majority of the people will vaccinate and if they do, they won't spread the virus. The unvaccinated will spread the virus among ourselves and others will reach herd immunity. Not trying to be sarcastic but logically, if you guys are immune (taking rarity for granted) and a lot of RFers don't have empathy for the chosen unvaccinated, why does it matter who spreads to whom?

 

[metis]

As you well know "pro-life" rarely extends beyond the womb for people who identify that way.

BTW, Fr. James Martin SJ, who has two doctorate degrees*, says that global warming has the potential of killing more people multiple times over versus those killed through abortion. and yet all so many just ignore that danger that's visibly happening today as we post.


* a joke common in grad school was that "ph.d." stands for "piled higher & deeper", and sometimes it's hard to argue with that.

 

[Aštra’el]

To get the vaccine, or not to get the vaccine. No judgement here.

 

[Father Heathen]

As you well know "pro-life" rarely extends beyond the womb for people who identify that way.

I think this situation reveals that the anti abortion movement was always more about subjugating women than it ever was about "saving babies", given that they've demonstrated the willingness to sacrifice the lives of children over vaccinations, masks, etc.

 

[Left Coast]

We never have the entire picture and never will. I'm not concerned that I may be asymptomatic unless I increased my risk by being around say people, going out of the area, or so have you. I'm kinesthetic and visual person.... emotions like fear etc come from what I see and experience not what I read and what people tell me not in my area.

It's not about fear. It's about taking reasonable precautions to protect yourself and those around you.

There's only but so many ways I can honestly explain it really. It's one of those live and let live type of things. Just know most likely majority of the people will vaccinate and if they do, they won't spread the virus. The unvaccinated will spread the virus among ourselves and others will reach herd immunity. Not trying to be sarcastic but logically, if you guys are immune (taking rarity for granted) and a lot of RFers don't have empathy for the chosen unvaccinated, why does it matter who spreads to whom?

You're right, there are only so many ways to explain this to you again and again.

It matters if diseases spread because I care about people getting needlessly sick and dying. Call me a bleeding heart. I do have empathy for people, even those who are unvaccinated, because unfortunately I think many of them don't know any better because they trust poor sources of information. There are also some who cannot be vaccinated because they have legitimate medical reasons that prevent them. And the problem is, herd immunity won't be reached if more people think like you. Which is why I push back quite forcefully on such things.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not about fear. It's about taking reasonable precautions to protect yourself and those around you.

Fear isn't a bad thing inherently. If fear wasn't an issue there'd be no reason to protect yourself and others.

You're right, there are only so many ways to explain this to you again and again.

It matters if diseases spread because I care about people getting needlessly sick and dying. Call me a bleeding heart. I do have empathy for people, even those who are unvaccinated, because unfortunately I think many of them don't know any better because they trust poor sources of information. There are also some who cannot be vaccinated because they have legitimate medical reasons that prevent them. And the problem is, herd immunity won't be reached if more people think like you. Which is why I push back quite forcefully on such things.

There's only so many ways " I " can explain my point of view. If I go any deeper you guys would still discredit it, so...

When did you start to believe you could be asymptomatic?
Was it overnight or gradual?

I do the same thing every day and don't go many places so if I went to sleep one day and woke up to to hear people tell me I'm asymptomatic, I'd look at them crazy. But then people who say this are literally thousands of miles away from me so I would only take but so much into consideration-healthwise.