Creationism and Evolution. Conflict or reconciliation.

[Valjean]

You might find the idea of God's judgment offensive. You might even say that the story of Job, Noah,
Moses etc mythic.

One does not judge a proposition by whether or not it's offensive, and until there's solid evidence for aq story, it's only reasonable to consider it mythic.

But as shown in the historic situation of the Jew since Jesus, you cannot deny it.

????? -- I don't see the connection. Is Jewish history somehow proof of biblical myths?

The bible states the Jew will be few in number, a blessing to the world, exiled from his country and
persecuted - but one day he will return to that nation, having been driven out of over 100 nations and
suffered terrible persecutions. God said he would do this.

You believe God said this, but you have no real evidence at all to support it.
You have a very loose concept of evidence. By your standards the mythology of every religion and folk tale would be well evidenced.

 

[Valjean]

Can you prove your claim?

The claim is "God, soul, Heaven and Hell." These are your claims, not Aup's. The burden of proof is on you, not Aup.

 

[firedragon]

The claim is "God, soul, Heaven and Hell." These are your claims, not Aup's. The burden of proof is on you, not Aup.

Nope. I didnt claim any of this. So since you are trying to defend your "tribe", please join in on his claim that Gods existence is proven wrong, and provide the evidence to that claim. It was your sergeant at arms who made that claim, thus the burden of proof is on him, and now you since he is yours to keep.

Thanks in advance.

 

[blü 2]

Not sure what you mean.

I mean, as I told you earlier, that Mark's trial-of-Jesus scene uses as its template the trial of Jesus of Jerusalem as reported in Josephus' Wars, and that Josephus' Wars was not available before 75 CE.

 

[PruePhillip]

I mean, as I told you earlier, that Mark's trial-of-Jesus scene uses as its template the trial of Jesus of Jerusalem as reported in Josephus' Wars, and that Josephus' Wars was not available before 75 CE.

And on that basis, an account of some crazy Jew bemoaning Jerusalem, you think the whole edifice
of the Gospel hangs - right down to the name of Jesus?
Finding some loose parallel to other events is not a good way to read the Gospels, anymore than
finding parallels with historic events like the French Revolution, Waterloo or Napoleon have their own
parallels in history.

Jesus was a common name (that's why the Messiah was called Jesus)
Trial by flogging was common
People warning of the destruction of Jerusalem was common
After the destruction of Roman general Gallus most Israelites knew the end was inevitable
ben Aanias was not even a particularly religious person, by the account I read

 

[Valjean]

Nope. I didnt claim any of this. So since you are trying to defend your "tribe", please join in on his claim that Gods existence is proven wrong, and provide the evidence to that claim. It was your sergeant at arms who made that claim, thus the burden of proof is on him, and now you since he is yours to keep.

Thanks in advance.

How would you disprove God? Who ever claimed to?
God is an extraordinary claim. It's the claimant's burden to evidence it. If the claimant fails at this, the default -- lack of belief -- logically remains.

What is my "tribe?"

 

[blü 2]

And on that basis, an account of some crazy Jew bemoaning Jerusalem, you think the whole edifice of the Gospel hangs - right down to the name of Jesus?

There are some 24 parallels, which I understand were first noticed by American theologian Theodore 'Ted' Weeden jr. You can read more here.

 

[PruePhillip]

There are some 24 parallels, which I understand were first noticed by American theologian Theodore 'Ted' Weeden jr. You can read more here.

Parallels ?????
One thing I notice about Gospel skeptics is that they can't agree on anything.
Generally I am not totally dismissive of their arguments as I learn something,
but on this one I am.
Usually skeptics will say the Gospels were written after AD 70 because Jesus
spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem. It's a fair argument, but Jesus also
spoke of the exile of the Jews, which didn't happen until the next Century,
and Jesus alluded to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem which happened
in the 20th Century.

 

[rational experiences]

Any human who thinks says self presence. One human. As you own self one and self belief.

No matter who you are.

To think and tell stories. Themes first where you personally exist a human already.

Claiming I tell a theory about why I exist.

In reality self presence what for?

As we each are one self pretend.

As you can pretend just tell one story as that self. And don't use group support to claim you are right.

One self can tell no story.

That one teaching was a principle human idealised learnt lesson.

When the group sought power for human science.

To quote no man is God....power. my life human was sacrificed. I learnt wisdom was not to seek good or evil in science. Reason I still existed afterwards yet owned change.

Lesson change meant changed.

Yet none of you just one single selves seem to enable in your one presence advice about speaking truthfully just as one self.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Parallels ?????
One thing I notice about Gospel skeptics is that they can't agree on anything.
Generally I am not totally dismissive of their arguments as I learn something,
but on this one I am.
Usually skeptics will say the Gospels were written after AD 70 because Jesus
spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem. It's a fair argument, but Jesus also
spoke of the exile of the Jews, which didn't happen until the next Century,
and Jesus alluded to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem which happened
in the 20th Century.

Scholars do not appear to place the dating of the Gospels on that but rather on other evidence. Mark was the first Gospel that was written. It was thought to have been most likely written in Rome by the language that is used. This article specifically mentions Greek words that have been Latinized:

When was the Gospel According to Mark Written?.

This Christian writer appears to largely agree:

When was the Gospel According to Mark Written?.

Matthew and Luke would obviously have to have been after that since they copy large sections of Mark for their own Gospels. I do not think that the late date is a reaction to the destruction of the temple at all.

 

[blü 2]

Parallels ?????
One thing I notice about Gospel skeptics is that they can't agree on anything.
Generally I am not totally dismissive of their arguments as I learn something, but on this one I am.
Usually skeptics will say the Gospels were written after AD 70 because Jesus spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem. It's a fair argument, but Jesus also spoke of the exile of the Jews, which didn't happen until the next Century, and Jesus alluded to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem which happened in the 20th Century.

Prophecy shmophecy.

Let's leave it at that.

 

[PruePhillip]

Prophecy shmophecy.

Let's leave it at that.

On another forum I mentioned Caesar. It's recorded he stayed home on the Ides of March
because of a dream his wife had about his being assassinated. As it was - she was right.
We have to acknowledge the universe is far stranger than we can imagine - just read what
happened to Israel in 1948 and 1967.

 

[blü 2]

On another forum I mentioned Caesar. It's recorded he stayed home on the Ides of March
because of a dream his wife had about his being assassinated. As it was - she was right.
We have to acknowledge the universe is far stranger than we can imagine - just read what
happened to Israel in 1948 and 1967.

Prophecy ─ supernatural foreknowledge ─ is nonsense of purest ray serene.

By all means bathe in it. Just leave me out.

 

[rational experiences]

If science as a man said God one is first. Stone a planet one first..... then science never invented God. Stone.

If science said I am converting dusts as that mass is already separated from sealed mass then radiation mass would have separated it.

If he said I am converting dusts as a man claiming God safe stone then he did. And he lied.

As mass spatial UFO radiation came back and made space holes in God stone. As God never owned separation. The sun did.

Space beginnings his thesis to obtain what God earth first received from the sun.

So he had to accumulate radiation over a time period to gain space hole in mass. With no mass as a science thesis nothing existed. He invented it.

To not be a creator
To falsify that he was creating.

How machines using God mass overheat as God X mass had been leaving it's own body. So radiation was removed out of all mass. Evidence

Theists thinking first as human say in the beginning God did not exist as stone when they pretend they own God in a science theory.

If they believe they put back mass stone when it hasn't stopped leaving heart core UFO....
then as yet God is a hole as a scientists theory beginning before god is not yet realised.

For mass to exist it has to stop and be held.

If science became its owned human confession. Science then said all science must stop so stone can return to just being stone as god. Became an agreed male science recorded memories.

As science choices also recorded when they are first just theories only.

I will invent that circumstance a human memory. To allow stone to exist as held formed. Seeing science knew it was not holding stone form anymore as God.

As it was all theoried by man human. Causes effect what science did to God earth.

Why God earth mass was leaving by the introduced constant.

Constant for God in space was space holding mass.

Why today he is told he is science possessed.

In the past human held constant as a life is dead. Long time not existing the past answer of a human constant.

We only ever owned one living answer. Human self present.

 

[PruePhillip]

Prophecy ─ supernatural foreknowledge ─ is nonsense of purest ray serene.

By all means bathe in it. Just leave me out.

Read an article about a man who nearly drowned - so far gone he didn't want to come back.
Near Death Experience stuff.
I cut out the article and kept reading it, obsessively - and that was strange for me to do. Even
had it beside my dinner plate as I was eating.
A week later I was in the newspaper, having nearly died in a SCUBA accident.
I don't dismiss stuff like I used to do. For many repeated super weird experiences there is
often a valid explanation, or at least the realization that more people experience these things
than admit to them.

 

[PruePhillip]

[QUOTE="Valjean, post: 7088350, member: 57767"You believe God said this, but you have no real evidence at all to support it.
You have a very loose concept of evidence. By your standards the mythology of every religion and folk tale would be well evidenced.[/QUOTE]

A good standard is to test a prophecy. The bible states that the Jews would lose their
nation and be sent into exile with the coming of their Messiah.
The bible states that the Jews would remain a people long after most of the nations
around them were gone. The bible states the Jew would be few in number (they should
have a population similar to USA by now.) The bible states the Jew would suffer at the
hand of the Gentiles (evicted from over 100 countries, many killed.) The bible says the
nations that bless the Jews would be blessed (America is an example of that.) And the
bible states that one day the Jews would return and take back their ancient land.

Now try to put probability figures to all this if it's just coincidence.
I figured once that Jacob's prophecy for a future nation of Israel, lasting until the Messiah
came, was conservatively a one in a trillion chance if it was pure guess work.

 

[firedragon]

How would you disprove God? Who ever claimed to?

If you didnt claim it, you are trying to defend someone who did.

 

[blü 2]

Read an article about a man who nearly drowned - so far gone he didn't want to come back.
Near Death Experience stuff.

NDE is a brain-generated experience. Accordingly there is not one authenticated case of someone returning from an NDE or an OOB with new remote information about reality.

 

[PruePhillip]

NDE is a brain-generated experience. Accordingly there is not one authenticated case of someone returning from an NDE or an OOB with new remote information about reality.

My sister experienced what is called the "sympathetic near death experience"
That is where someone else, usually someone near to a dying person, goes
through the near death experience themselves - or a form thereof.

I worked with a man who's brother was the pilot who was lost during an
'encounter' with an UFO 1976 in Victoria. We asked him what did NASA
say about the audio and radar tapes they examined, he said "They said
there was no natural explanation for what happened to my brother."
That pilot was Frederick Valentich.
Disappearance of Frederick Valentich - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

My sister experienced what is called the "sympathetic near death experience"
That is where someone else, usually someone near to a dying person, goes
through the near death experience themselves - or a form thereof.

I worked with a man who's brother was the pilot who was lost during an
'encounter' with an UFO 1976 in Victoria. We asked him what did NASA
say about the audio and radar tapes they examined, he said "They said
there was no natural explanation for what happened to my brother."
That pilot was Frederick Valentich.
Disappearance of Frederick Valentich - Wikipedia

UFO simply means exactly what its acronym says "Unidentified Flying Object". Last year there was a big kerfuffle because the US Department of Defense released videos of three UFO's. They were all shown to be from natural causes. When the report is "there was no natural explanation" that only means that they did not know the cause at that time. It is not evidence for aliens.