I am an Atheist. I don't go with a literal reading of any holy scripture. I used the 6000 year line because I hear it so often, no other reason.
If you gave me an apple I would assume the apple came from a tree, as apples do. If you said that the apple was created, I'd ask you to prove it.
Well, at least there's that.
For the purposes of this debate, I am taking a neutral stance. I am not claiming that everything is created. Nor am I claiming that nothing is created.
I am making no claim of my own.
The only one on the table is yours.
"Everything is created."
Prove it.
You started with the assumption that everything is created and then reached the conclusion that if everything is created there must be a creator. That is a circular argument. At no one point in your argument did you attempt to prove any of it. You simply stated it as fact and went from there.
How did you reach that conclusion?
Two questions:
What makes you think anything was created in the first place?
When you see something, how do you tell if that something is created or not? (I.E. What intrinsic difference does a created thing have from an uncreated thing?)
You provide evidence to back the assertion.
All matter cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore all matter was not created. Living systems work the same way - they were not "created", they were formed through natural processes and replicate without inherent design. And yes, forces are things.
I've already named several things which our current understanding dictates are not created.
Because the burden of proof is on you. Before you tell us to explain why you are wrong, you must first demonstrate some kind of evidence that you are correct. If you cannot, then there is nothing to disprove.
But, in all likelihood, you would not do that. Therefore you could not prove that my cat does not have wings. In much the same way, you're making the claim that everything is created. Somebody could easily prove this assertion false, but you are not in a position open to the possibility of accepting that information.
This is nothing more than an assumption. I've already asked you to demonstrate that everything was created. Can you do that or not?
No, you haven't. Now, demonstrate that everything was created.
Because there are things that are not inherently "created". Things can, have and do form through natural non-intelligent means without inherent design. Therefore, we can conclude that you are wrong.
What's more, you are wrong since your entire rationale is based on a logical fallacy - it's a circular argument without any rational basis, therefore we can conclude that your argument is not worth disputing since it has no merit.
Seems to me that all you have are claims with no backing. You seem to completely misunderstand, wilfully or not, basic principles of presenting an argument, and when I, and several other posters, have asked you to present your arguments and your hypothesis, dodging the question in this and similar manners is your "way out".
Now, I can't find your hypothesis anywhere, so unless you repost it here, I will be forced to assume that you have none, just like all the other creationists who have replied in this tread.
It is strange to me that you cannot understand that all things are created. Which as I am sure you have found in your research is undisputed. Nobody denies that a child is created by its parents, that an apple is created by a tree, that gravity is created by the mass of an object. Without this as a basis of fact no science could even begin to operate. What science clearly demonstrates is that every thing is created by some thing else. That there is a scientific explanation for how all things came to be. A small rock is often formed by the motion of the tide rolling a larger rock. The motion of the tide is often created by the moon's gravity pulling the waters here and there. The gravity of the moon is created by the mass of the moon. The current mass of the moon was created after having smashed into the earth and reformed in orbit and taking a multitude of asteroid, meteor, and comet strikes. (I always forget which combination of those applies to what hits the moon)
Why is it so difficult to accept the premise that all things are created? And how do you not see with your own eyes that every thing you have ever known was created by some other thing. Perhaps it is the word created that you have a personal hang up with. Created is just the best way to describe how things come into existence but if you prefer another word, its fine with me. Here are a bunch of synonyms for created, maybe you would like to use one of them instead:
actualize, author, beget, bring into being, bring into existence, bring to pass, build, cause to be, coin, compose, conceive, concoct, constitute, construct, contrive, design, devise, discover, dream up, effect, erect, establish, fabricate, fashion, father, forge, form, formulate, found, generate, give birth to, give life to, hatch, imagine, initiate, institute, invent, invest, make, occasion, organize, originate, parent, perform, plan, procreate, produce, rear, set up, shape, sire, spawn, start
Once you have picked one that you like can we move on past the basic idea that "every thing was <insert your favorite synonyms>"?
