Cross or Upright Stake

[Subduction Zone]

I googled "What are the characteristics of a cult" this is the first article that came up:

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-is-a-cult

Let's run down their characteristics and see if the JW's qualify:

• Authoritarian control: Cultism hinges on encouraging maximum dependency. People in the cult must feel incapable of living an individual life outside the norms of the group. These beliefs often go hand in hand with a worshipful attitude toward the group’s authoritarian leader.

That would be a big "Yes" for the JW's.

• Extremist beliefs: Cult members hold to very dogmatic and extreme beliefs. They also are unable to question these belief systems without fear of reprisal or punishment from the leader or other group members.

Again, yes for the JW's. Endless science denial leads to extremist beliefs.

• Isolation from society: As soon as new members join a cult, other adherents work hard to isolate them from family members and friends. This helps fulfill the mind control aspirations of the leader. It also creates a hive mind of sorts between the new person and the other members.

And yes, this applies to. The JW's do not tend to socialize very much outside of the church.

• Veneration of a single individual: Charismatic leaders are often at the center of most cults. Consider the Manson family of the late 1960s. As their name suggests, they adopted the beliefs of their leader, Charles Manson, and fulfilled his requests. The same pattern repeats in almost all other cults, albeit to less violent ends in many cases.

Hey, congratulations. The JW's have not had a single leader for quite some time. But they are so isolated that their elders are almost the same as a single individual. But with a solid three out of four and a maybe on the fourth I would say that it does qualify as a cult.

 

[Subduction Zone]

you said "Jehovah's witness and they do not realize that Jehovah is a transliteration" they do know that , making you a liar. there are many names from the bible that are transliteration. likey someone lied to you about the JW's and you are promoting that lie.

No, being wrong does not make a person a liar. If that was the case you would be a far far worse liar than I am. As for promoting lies, when you support creationists you are doing exactly that.

But your claim raises a question. Why do the JW's insist upon calling God Jehovah?

 

[Subduction Zone]

you said "Jehovah's witness and they do not realize that Jehovah is a transliteration" they do know that , making you a liar. there are many names from the bible that are transliteration. likey someone lied to you about the JW's and you are promoting that lie.

One more point. Have you ever considered that you were lied to? The founders of the Jehovah's Witnesses were not a Biblical scholars nor is it likely at all that they knew the original pronunciation of the word. They may have very well believed that was the proper pronunciation when almost all experts disagree with that. As a highly authoritarian religion they could not go against Russell and especially not against Rutherford. He was the one that definitely turned the sect into an authoritarian cult.

 

[cataway]

One more point. Have you ever considered that you were lied to? The founders of the Jehovah's Witnesses were not a Biblical scholars nor is it likely at all that they knew the original pronunciation of the word. They may have very well believed that was the proper pronunciation when almost all experts disagree with that. As a highly authoritarian religion they could not go against Russell and especially not against Rutherford. He was the one that definitely turned the sect into an authoritarian cult.

open your bible KJV to

Psalms​

83:18
what name do you find there?

 

[Subduction Zone]

open your bible KJV to

Psalms​

83:18
what name do you find there?

I don't have a KJV. It is an inferior translation to more modern ones. Why rely on an inaccurate translation.

 

[cataway]

I don't have a KJV. It is an inferior translation to more modern ones. Why rely on an inaccurate translation.

very well i went online to find it for you "
KJV
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth."
the JW's had nothing to do with the KJV being created and yet there is the name Jehovah . yes its found in other bibles . many others replace it with LORD not lord. but you are smart ,you likely already know that . right?

 

[Subduction Zone]

very well i went online to find it for you "
KJV
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth."
the JW's had nothing to do with the KJV being created and yet there is the name Jehovah . yes its found in other bibles . many others replace it with LORD not lord. but you are smart ,you likely already know that . right?

Yes, you found the word Jehovah in an out of date translation. There is a good chance that is the translation used by the founders of the JW cult. So what?

 

[cataway]

Yes, you found the word Jehovah in an out of date translation. There is a good chance that is the translation used by the founders of the JW cult. So what?

and what does it mean when LORD is found ? some bible do replace Jehovah with LORD . why?

 

[Subduction Zone]

and what does it mean when LORD is found ? some bible do replace Jehovah with LORD . why?

Because old mistakes are hard to get rid of. 8

There is no formal method for correcting the mistakes in the Bible. How would you fix them?

 

[David Davidovich]

the only thing that evolves is the thinking of men

And which in turn, evolves the thinking and the nature of religion.

 

[YoursTrue]

Seems the archaeologists are the only source some are willing to look at.
I told someone I spoke to, on Tuesday, people tend to want to see physical things, but those are not the only things that exist.
The reason this is written here, is because the data was collected from all the available sources... including historians.
Crucifixion
The Greek and Latin words corresponding to "crucifixion" applied to many different forms of painful execution, including being impaled on a stake, or affixed to a tree, upright pole (a crux simplex), or to a combination of an upright (in Latin, stipes) and a crossbeam (in Latin, patibulum)

Ancient Greek has two verbs for crucify: anastauroo (ἀνασταυρόω), from stauros (which in today's Greek only means "cross" but which in antiquity was used of any kind of wooden pole, pointed or blunt, bare or with attachments) and apotumpanizo (ἀποτυμπανίζω) "crucify on a plank", together with anaskolopizo (ἀνασκολοπίζω "impale"). In earlier pre-Roman Greek texts anastauro usually means "impale".

Yes, indeed. There is a very interesting discussion among experts about this instrument of torture, and the likelihood exists that it was not a crucifix as many think of it, but rather an upright pole. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, explaining that the Greek word for cross, (stauros) properly signified a stake or upright pole. In fact, "Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

 

[David Davidovich]

Life evolves too. You are still an ape.

So, true. And it's interesting how God's crowning achievement is so similar to other primates. Hebrews 2:7

The great apes – chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans – are closest related to humans. In fact, we share about 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees and bonobos and are more closely related to them than they are to gorillas or any other primates. In comparison, humans share 93% of DNA with rhesus monkeys (1)
Humans and apes share all the same bones, though they may differ in shape or size, and they also share the same arrangement of internal organs. On average, males are 5-10% larger than females and are more muscular. Unlike most monkeys, neither apes nor humans have an external tail. We share even more of the same diseases with apes than with monkeys and have several blood type systems in common (2).

Year of the Monkey: Monkey, Apes, and Humans: How are we different?

 

[David Davidovich]

I believe that figures like Jesus were common around his time. The only difference that makes Jesus different than the others is that his birth and life were entirely sanctified.

No, not really. Because if you do your research, you will find out that there were quite a few virgin births in religious antiquity... Nothing new here. But here's a little bit of help...

Horus of Ancient Egyptian belief had the epithet of “Savior” and was born of the virgin Isis. . .Perseus, son of the god Zeus by the virgin Danae, daughter of Acrisius, King of Argos. . .Romulus and Remus, the founders of Rome, were born of a Vestal Virgin whose father was Mars the God of War. . .Plato – said to be born of the union of a virgin and the god Apollo. . .Zoroaster was born of an immaculate conception, of a ray of the Divine Reason.

Sons of God and Virgin Births

I believe Joseph is Jesus father, not just God, as I believe everybody's spiritual parent is God. But the Jews were looking for a messianic-like figure and found it with Christ. My question is: Why does it even matter if Christ died on an upright stake or a cross when the message of forgiveness and empathy has resonated so well amongst most Christians?

Apparently, you did not read the OP:

Also, I would like to note that I am NOT looking for answers such as: 'What difference does it make how Jesus died, just as long as we know that he died?' or answers such as that.

Like all religions I respect Christians as part of the spiritual web that binds us all, regardless of how Jesus was crucified.

But whether or not that Jesus died on a cross or a stake is ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IN THE WORLD. You must not been following the thread closely.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So, true. And it's interesting how God's crowning achievement is so similar to other primates. Hebrews 2:7

Year of the Monkey: Monkey, Apes, and Humans: How are we different?

Not a bad article, but humans are apes. In fact like chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans we are all great apes:

Hominidae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hominidae is the scientific term, but for us everyday folks:

"
The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as the great apes[note 1] or hominids (/ˈhɒmɪnɪdz/), are a taxonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo (the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan); Gorilla (the eastern and western gorilla); Pan (the chimpanzee and the bonobo); and Homo, of which only modern humans (Homo sapiens) remain.[1]"

 

[David Davidovich]

Not a bad article, but humans are apes. In fact like chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans we are all great apes:

Hominidae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hominidae is the scientific term, but for us everyday folks:

"
The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as the great apes[note 1] or hominids (/ˈhɒmɪnɪdz/), are a taxonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo (the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan); Gorilla (the eastern and western gorilla); Pan (the chimpanzee and the bonobo); and Homo, of which only modern humans (Homo sapiens) remain.[1]"

Okay, thanks. But I still would like to know from an apologist why apes are so similar to God's crowning achievement. I mean, why hands?

 

[David Davidovich]

I believe that figures like Jesus were common around his time. The only difference that makes Jesus different than the others is that his birth and life were entirely sanctified.

Also, Ethan, here's a YouTube video for you and for those who like videos:

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, thanks. But I still would like to know from an apologist why apes are so similar to God's crowning achievement. I mean, why hands?

Most, but not all apologists are liars. Some may even accept the fact that life is the product of evolution.

 

[cataway]

Because old mistakes are hard to get rid of. 8

There is no formal method for correcting the mistakes in the Bible. How would you fix them?

mistakes ? its more on the line of superstition and fear

 

[Kathryn]

Honor and respect. I think that's what she understood.
Why honor and respect a torturous instrument used by cruel pagans, who torture people to death in the most disgusting way?

I don't honor and respect just any cross. Only the cross on which Jesus died, because of what it represents to me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

mistakes ? its more on the line of superstition and fear

Okay, so how do you correct the superstition and fear in the Bible?