Cross or Upright Stake

[Subduction Zone]

such people can not worship Jesus with out a cross. They feel they have to have it . what about Exodus 20:4 ?

What about it? You are only focusing on part of it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This article is definitely better when it comes to theories and laws. No silly claims where it quickly refutes itself:

What's the Difference Between a Fact, a Hypothesis, a Theory, and a Law in Science?

Each word has a specific meaning and not interchangeable.

www.discovery.com

And to quote from it:

"A theory is the granddaddy of all scientific statements, which is why it makes no sense to say that evolution is "just a theory." As Joe Hanson puts it in his video for It's Okay to Be Smart, "Stop saying it like a bad thing. Calling it a theory means it's passed the toughest tests that we can throw at it, and evolution has been tested maybe more than any theory that we know of." "

In the sciences a theory is as good as it gets.


Laws just tell us what would happen under specific examples. Theories add an explanation of why. That is why theories are superior.

 

[YoursTrue]

It matters if we care what crucifixion was actually like. Better understanding of this requires more than knowledge of the Greek words involved, it also requires looking back at the actual archeological evidence of crucifixion we have.

Of course the method was painful. The question is also involved with proper translation and understanding of the Greek terms involved.

 

[YoursTrue]

It matters if we care what crucifixion was actually like. Better understanding of this requires more than knowledge of the Greek words involved, it also requires looking back at the actual archeological evidence of crucifixion we have.

Also @Kathryn Some things become like the truth when it isn't the truth and nothing but. Yes, many revere the cross as a point of worship and symbolic perhaps if they wear a cross around their neck as a piece of jewelry, but really not understanding the truth of the matter.
Because of Jesus' death those who have faith in the redeeming value in God's eyes of his death can look forward to everlasting life. True studies show that proper understanding of the Greek is important. Have a good day.
There are dictionaries and discussions about this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course the method was painful. The question is also involved with proper translation and understanding of the Greek terms involved.

To me the tau cross is the most reasonable version. By the time of Jesus the Romans had made crucifixion as long and as painful as possible. Little details like the inadequate foot platform that gave a victim some relief that only extended the torture are one of those details. The vertical stake was the earliest method. Very painful, but over too soon for sadists.

 

[cataway]

To me the tau cross is the most reasonable version. By the time of Jesus the Romans had made crucifixion as long and as painful as possible. Little details like the inadequate foot platform that gave a victim some relief that only extended the torture are one of those details. The vertical stake was the earliest method. Very painful, but over too soon for sadists.

give a foot platform then show up a few hours later and break the legs??. they were trying to kill someone in a hideous way . nothing about is nice

 

[Subduction Zone]

give a foot platform then show up a few hours later and break the legs??. they were trying to kill someone in a hideous way . nothing about is nice

I never said that it was nice. And that was the idea of the foot platform. It was the opposite of nice since it extended the torture.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wikipedia has a good article on this. There were two common types of crucifixion that the Romans used. The used a simple stake at times. But Jesus was probably crucified on stake with a cross piece on top. It would have looked like an upper case "T:". Also the idea that Jesus would have carried the whole cross as commonly depicted is probably wrong because a cross put up with a body on it would not be very stable. He probably only carried the cross piece and was put up on a stake that was a permanent part of the city just for crucifixions:

Crucifixion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When the Church guided my education there was actually a devate as to whether or not the nails went through Jesus' palms or wrists and concluded it must have the wrists as the palms would have rippes and Jesus would have fallen off the cross.
They actually think you can crucify someone as portrayed on their necklace and everything will work out. Apparently, to the them, the body won't flop around or go limp. No rope or positioning the arms right required.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Among the Jews crucifixion was an anathema. (See Deuteronomy 21:22–23: “If a man is guilty of a capital offense and is put to death, and you impale him on a stake, you must not let his corpse remain on the stake overnight, but must bury him the same day. For an impaled body is an affront to God: you shall not defile the land that the Lord your God is giving you to possess.”)

Impalement is an entirely different beast where the condemned has a blunt stake slid through their body (mostly done with gravity).
Vlad Dracul III mastered it to such horrifying perfection that the condemned would die of starvation or dehydration before the stake (he would deliberately avoid piercing any vital organs), and several centuries latwr he's still known in many different languages as different names that all mean the same thing: Vlad the Impaler.

 

[Left Coast]

Of course the method was painful. The question is also involved with proper translation and understanding of the Greek terms involved.

It's not about whether the method was painful. There are lots of ways to inflict pain.

 

[Left Coast]

Also @Kathryn Some things become like the truth when it isn't the truth and nothing but. Yes, many revere the cross as a point of worship and symbolic perhaps if they wear a cross around their neck as a piece of jewelry, but really not understanding the truth of the matter.
Because of Jesus' death those who have faith in the redeeming value in God's eyes of his death can look forward to everlasting life. True studies show that proper understanding of the Greek is important. Have a good day.
There are dictionaries and discussions about this.

Again, it's about more than the Greek. It requires you to actually look back in history at the evidence of how people were actually crucified. Hint: they used crossbeams.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's not about whether the method was painful. There are lots of ways to inflict pain.

OK. So Jesus was nailed to -- ?? what's your opinion or take on it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, it's about more than the Greek. It requires you to actually look back in history at the evidence of how people were actually crucified. Hint: they used crossbeams.

It's really not about crossbeams. In part and a large part, it's about understanding how the words are translated, what they mean historically and linguistically. So you can go on about this, and perhaps another time this can be examined in depth if you want to.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's not about whether the method was painful. There are lots of ways to inflict pain.

Again, the question is involved with proper translation and understanding of the Greek words used and if they are properly translated.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, it's about more than the Greek. It requires you to actually look back in history at the evidence of how people were actually crucified. Hint: they used crossbeams.

(Not all the time. And yes, it does necessarily involve the Greek.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

(Not all the time. And yes, it does necessarily involve the Greek.)

Yes, early on the Romans did not use crossbeams. And in cases of mass crucifixion they probably did not have the time to make them. For example when Spartacus led a slave revolution there were 6,000 captured slaves at the end of the last battle. They were all crucified. Unlike what we see in the movies there were probably crucified on a pole, or more likely any handy trees.

The Spartacus Revolt

The revolt of the gladiator Spartacus in 73-71 BCE remains the most successful slave revolt in the history of Rome. The rebellion is known as the Third Servile War and was the last of three major slave...

www.worldhistory.org

But it seems that by the time of Jesus it was the tau cross "T" that he was crucified on.

 

[Left Coast]

OK. So Jesus was nailed to -- ?? what's your opinion or take on it.

Oh, I think @Subduction Zone is right that he was nailed to some version of a cross.

 

[Left Coast]

It's really not about crossbeams. In part and a large part, it's about understanding how the words are translated, what they mean historically and linguistically. So you can go on about this, and perhaps another time this can be examined in depth if you want to.

You assume I haven't examined it in depth before. That would be a mistake on your part.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, it's about more than the Greek. It requires you to actually look back in history at the evidence of how people were actually crucified. Hint: they used crossbeams.

As far as crossbeams go, again -- there was a sign over him, evidently attached to the straight pole.

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, I think @Subduction Zone is right that he was nailed to some version of a cross.

I doubt the Romans would use unnecessary wood, but the conclusion is up to you, also based on the terminology and subsequent translations. More that you talk about it the more convinced I am that whatever was construed as a crossbeam was the sign, unless you have some evidence to the contrary, and I'm talking about images or artists' depictions.