Dating Preferences: Bigotry or a Right?

[SomeRandom]

I'm not arguing those things

Okay fair enough. So what exactly are you arguing?

 

[SomeRandom]

No, it isn't. Diseases make people sick, and a number of them are not curable. Having sex with a transsexual, even unknowingly, puts no one in any such danger. One of these issues does directly pertain to the health of a potential sex partner, the other does not place any risk on their health.

Lying to a person who you intend to date/sleep with, which includes withholding information, is unethical to do. It doesn't matter if it's lying about being STI free, being penis free or even that you're looking for a one night stand but pretend to want a serious relationship. That is a ****ty thing to do to a person. This expectation of being honest applies to EVERYONE. It IS normal in this day and age to answer questions pertaining to all sorts of.....err grey areas in life, shall we say?
Not to mention that one might actually be emotionally or even psychologically hurt by sleeping with a transgender unknowingly. They might feel extreme guilt if they are very religious and believe they have committed a grave sin in the eyes of whatever Deity they pray to. They might feel internalized homophobia and ashamed of themselves. So, while sleeping with a transsexual might not cause physical harm to anyone, it does put some people at risk of other things. What if they've been brainwashed by the Ex Gay crap and experience severe self loathing afterwards? The shame and guilt said person would be taught to feel would put them at risk of other psychological issues. Now, okay you could say that that's all on them. And I'd agree. But it's still a potential consequence nonetheless.
And if they do run a mile after discovering that you're transsexual, then you're better off without them. Every person deserves to be in a relationship with another person who cares about them on a deeper level. That includes accepting them as is.

No one is saying you have to fill out a freaking questionnaire every time you're dating someone. But most people prefer to know exactly what type of person they are dating. Whether they're into BDSM or LARPING or even if they have no genitalia. A relationship/dating involves mutual consent. Consent can't be obtained if the person is not fully aware of exactly what they're entering into.

Being upfront with one's preferences or any issues before having sex is vastly preferable than to be shocked by some revelation of something later down the line. Whatever revelation that may be.

 

[Flankerl]

No, it's not an opinion. You've demonstrated quite clearly your feelings about trans people as it is.

Actually I haven't. I just wrote how most people see it.

I know you don't like that but its just the way it is.

 

[crossfire]

OK--regarding the Opening Post:

This is about personal life choices and preferences. These choices are within the realm of the individual to decide and define these preferences.

Some areas of personal life preferences:

• gender identity
• leisure time activity preferences
• food preferences
• leisure time clothing preferences
• dating preferences
• individual sexual preferences
• partnership preferences
• cultural interests
• personal possessions preferences

As long as the personal preferences do no harm to another and don't interfere with another person's right to hold their own personal life preferences or violate health codes or other laws, then those individual preferences should be recognized as valid to the person choosing them. Being intolerant of another person's valid personal preference is bigotry.

Following these premises:

• not tolerating another's choice of gender (not biological sex) identity would be bigotry, as this falls with the realm of valid personal life preference.
• not wanting to date a woman with a penis is not bigotry, as it falls within the realm of valid individual and personal sexual preferences.
• not tolerating another's choice of not wanting to have sex with a woman who has a penis would be bigotry, as it is intolerance of another's valid personal life preference.

Please feel free to critique this for logical and ideological inconsistencies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bloody hell.
You do realize that some people find it morally reprehensible, or an offence to God? Do you not care that your lie could inflict great psychological torment on them if they found out? That's just messed up, and cruel, and unnecessary. It's a lie, and even little kids know lying is wrong and hurts people.

It shows you have no respect for them or their sexuality, and you don't give a crap out about their feelings.

Some people think its morally reprehensible to associate with black people, to have to work with homosexuals, and to have to live up their oaths of sworn duties and responsibilities of public office. A firefighter may be morally opposed to homosexual and believe "their blood is on their hands," but legally they do not get to refuse anyone.
If it causes them psychological torment, they shouldn't be having one night stands, and they should get to know their partners better. And if they find something like that to be an offense to god, they shouldn't even be having one night stands at all because sexual immorality is also an offense to god. Their sins are not on me. It's entirely on them. I shouldn't be expected to have to cater to the majorities whim and my disclose my private information to them because they may be insecure and have objections that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Lying to a person who you intend to date/sleep with,

If someone is presenting as a male and has a penis, if someone is presenting as a woman and has a vagina, where is the lie?

It IS normal in this day and age to answer questions pertaining to all sorts of.

Being required to disclose your medical history, especially if there is nothing that puts a potential partner at risk, is not normal. At all.

Being upfront with one's preferences or any issues before having sex is vastly preferable than to be shocked by some revelation of something later down the line. Whatever revelation that may be.

If someone is presenting as a male and has a penis, if someone is presenting as a woman and has a vagina, what is the preference that isn't being made just by what's going on, and what is the issue?

 

[McBell]

OK--regarding the Opening Post:

This is about personal life choices and preferences. These choices are within the realm of the individual to decide and define these preferences.

Some areas of personal life preferences:

• gender identity
• leisure time activity preferences
• food preferences
• leisure time clothing preferences
• dating preferences
• individual sexual preferences
• partnership preferences
• cultural interests
• personal possessions preferences

As long as the personal preferences do no harm to another and don't interfere with another person's right to hold their own personal life preferences or violate health codes or other laws, then those individual preferences should be recognized as valid to the person choosing them. Being intolerant of another person's valid personal preference is bigotry.

Following these premises:

• not tolerating another's choice of gender (not biological sex) identity would be bigotry, as this falls with the realm of valid personal life preference.
• not wanting to date a woman with a penis is not bigotry, as it falls within the realm of valid individual and personal sexual preferences.
• not tolerating another's choice of not wanting to have sex with a woman who has a penis would be bigotry, as it is intolerance of another's valid personal life preference.

Please feel free to critique this for logical and ideological inconsistencies.

Define "intolerant"
I flat out refuse to date or have sex with anyone with a penis.
I will be their friend, talk to them, etc. but I have no interest in having a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife relationship with them.

Now if that makes me a bigot in your eyes, so be it.

 

[crossfire]

Define "intolerant"
I flat out refuse to date or have sex with anyone with a penis.
I will be their friend, talk to them, etc. but I have no interest in having a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife relationship with them.

Now if that makes me a bigot in your eyes, so be it.

No, that would not make you a bigot, as it would come under your own valid personal sexual preference. Bigotry refers to being intolerant of other people's valid personal preferences. (Anyone not tolerant of your preference {to not date anyone with a penis} would be the bigot--not you.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Actually I haven't. I just wrote how most people see it.

I know you don't like that but its just the way it is.

Picture saying that to a Jew in 1930s Germany or a black person in the South during Jim Crow. That's just sick.

 

[Flankerl]

Ah yes now you've gone full crazy. Oh well.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ah yes now you've gone full crazy. Oh well.

Stop projecting. What you said was sick and offensive, even when it comes to your own people. I don't want to see you *****ing about anti-Semitism anymore, then. Unless you don't mind being a blatant hypocrite?

 

[Flankerl]

Stop projecting. What you said was sick and offensive, even when it comes to your own people. I don't want to see you *****ing about anti-Semitism anymore, then. Unless you don't mind being a blatant hypocrite?

Where have I ever, as in ever whined about people that don't want to date Jews? Come on. Show it to me.

You apparently want to change that people should be able to decline sexual interactions with transsexuals. And that is sick and basically asking for something that I will not name.

Also I am projecting? From your reaction to my posts its as if I am calling to murder transsexuals or the like. Which I've never done. All I've done is to make clear that many people won't have sexual interactions with transsexuals and that it is their right to decline that.
Which is apparently infuriating to you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where have I ever, as in ever whined about people that don't want to date Jews? Come on. Show it to me.

You apparently want to change that people should be able to decline sexual interactions with transsexuals. And that is sick and basically asking for something that I will not name.

Also I am projecting? From your reaction to my posts its as if I am calling to murder transsexuals or the like. Which I've never done. All I've done is to make clear that many people won't have sexual interactions with transsexuals and that it is their right to decline that.
Which is apparently infuriating to you.

This is not about merely declining to date/have sex with a transsexual. You've said a lot of nasty transphobic things and then you say that "well, that's just how most people view it" as if it's just okay. No, it's not okay. You basically are saying that trans people should shut up about our oppression in society. You can extend that to any oppressed people. "Well, that's just how it is." Maybe you should stop for a moment and reflect about the things you're saying.

 

[Flankerl]

Sexual preference is not oppression. It never will be.
Holy crap.

Ah yes transphobic. From my time on the internet I've learned that everyone who doesn't support transsexuals or wants to hop into bed with them is basically transphobic. So yeah.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sexual preference is not oppression. It never will be.
Holy crap.

I didn't argue that merely having a simple preference is transphobic. Pay attention.

Ah yes transphobic. From my time on the internet I've learned that everyone who doesn't support transsexuals or wants to hop into bed with them is basically transphobic. So yeah.

Yes, if you do not support transsexuals as human beings who deserve the same rights, respect and protections as non-trans people, do not accept us as we are and for who we say we are, you are a transphobe.

 

[Thana]

Some people think its morally reprehensible to associate with black people, to have to work with homosexuals, and to have to live up their oaths of sworn duties and responsibilities of public office. A firefighter may be morally opposed to homosexual and believe "their blood is on their hands," but legally they do not get to refuse anyone.
If it causes them psychological torment, they shouldn't be having one night stands, and they should get to know their partners better. And if they find something like that to be an offense to god, they shouldn't even be having one night stands at all because sexual immorality is also an offense to god. Their sins are not on me. It's entirely on them. I shouldn't be expected to have to cater to the majorities whim and my disclose my private information to them because they may be insecure and have objections that shouldn't exist in the first place.

No, their sins aren't on you. But what you do affects people, whether you like it or not, and tricking someone into having sex with you is wrong. And it is tricking them, because religion and morals aside, some people are just simply heterosexual. And having sex with a transexual, to them, is not heterosexual. And if you can't respect that, then why should anyone respect you and your transexuality?

You know it's wrong to do it, you just don't care. That's what I take issue with, since I'm expected to cater to your sexuality. I'm expected to call you she when you were a born a he, And you're expected to let your sexual partners know your sexuality beforehand.

And racists associating with black people is entirely different to tricking racists into having sex with a black person. Sure, they're racist and thats terrible, but you don't torment people like that. If for no other reason than you're supposed to be a half-way decent and moral person.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, their sins aren't on you. But what you do affects people, whether you like it or not, and tricking someone into having sex with you is wrong. And it is tricking them, because religion and morals aside, some people are just simply heterosexual. And having sex with a transexual, to them, is not heterosexual. And if you can't respect that, then why should anyone respect you and your transexuality?

You know it's wrong to do it, you just don't care. That's what I take issue with, since I'm expected to cater to your sexuality. I'm expected to call you she when you were a born a he, And you're expected to let your sexual partners know your sexuality beforehand.

And racists associating with black people is entirely different to tricking racists into having sex with a black person. Sure, they're racist and thats terrible, but you don't torment people like that. If for no other reason than you're supposed to be a half-way decent and moral person.

Simply wear a badge that displays what you've said about trans people here and I assure you that no trans person will ever hit on you, dear.

 

[Thana]

Simply wear a badge that displays what you've said about trans people here and I assure you that no trans person will ever hit on you, dear.

I'm not afraid of being hit on by a trans person, since a FtM transexual can't really hide their transexuality in bed, but some MtF's can and according to Shadow, feel justified in doing so.

If we're supposed to respect your transexuality, then you're supposed to respect our heterosexuality. And let us know beforehand, so that those of us who are not okay with it won't be deceived into having sex with a person we wouldn't knowingly have sex with. That's all. And I think that's fair. Some heterosexuals are perfectly fine with it, but some aren't, and that should be respected.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not afraid of being hit on by a trans person, since a FtM transexual can't really hide their transexuality in bed, but some MtF's can and according to Shadow, feel justified in doing so.

If we're supposed to respect your transexuality, then you're supposed to respect our heterosexuality. And let us know beforehand, so that those of us who are not okay with it won't be deceived into having sex with a person we wouldn't knowingly have sex with. That's all. And I think that's fair. Some heterosexuals are perfectly fine with it, but some aren't, and that should be respected.

Nah, you should let your potential partners know of your transphobia beforehand. Like I said, simply wear a badge displaying your transphobic thoughts about us and we will definitely steer clear of you. Much easier and logical.

 

[Thana]

Nah, you should let your partners know of your transphobia beforehand. Much easier and logical.

Right.
Because that has everything to do with sexuality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Right.
Because that has everything to do with sexuality.

Since you find trans people so icky, sinful and morally depraved, just let us all know beforehand before we dare to interact with you. Then we won't have to deal with your bigotry towards us and we won't stress your delicate mind. Happy endings for all around.