Death and Evolution

[FearGod]

Excuse me?

"Exactly" how? A lot can happen after a few millennia when there are people determined to pursue specific goals. I don't think there was a timestamp there, nor do I see the historical developments as particularly supportive of the predictive powers of that supposed prophecy.
.

Really, when it says Jews will come from every part of earth to the established land
of Israel, and yet that isn't a clear sign.

Those who don't want to believe they won't believe regardless of any evidence or sign.

 

[leibowde84]

And that is the point, how our lifespan was fixed that way, was it planned or just happened to be so?

It is just the way that our body chemistry works out. Our cells degenerate after about 70 years.

 

[stevevw]

Is becoming old and die was good for the species?
Death is good for earth and for more species to come which is a sign that someone
has planned for it, living for some years and giving birth for new comers.

What do you think? was it just a coincidence or a programmed death mechanism?

I can see a different point coming from species having to die as part of evolution. In the animal world there is no sparing other animals that are part of the food chain or subject to the many situations that humans place on other species by inhabiting their territory through progression. It seems humans are to too bothered in wiping out thousands of species for the sake of their survival. So according to survival of the fittest does that mean humans will also see the wiping out of other humans as part of keeping the population down to ensure their survival. We haave heard the views of people who believe that disaster and war is a good thing as it rebalances things. The fact that the westerrn world who are comfortable in their lives are not willing to give this up to help save millions who are hungry may be motivated by evolutionary thinking. From around the 50s through to the 70s and even today I believe social Darwinism played a big part in deeming some humans especially Indigenous peoples as inferior and this led to many of these peoples being wiped out. Maybe this type of thinking is still influencing people especially those in powerful positions and they want the human population to be reduced or at least be contained and therefore will turn a blind eye at allowing many to die prematurally. Afterall humans are wiping out 1000s of animals, what is the difference in wiping out humans as they are also an animal.

 

[LuisDantas]

Really, when it says Jews will come from every part of earth to the established land of Israel, and yet that isn't a clear sign.

Is it even supposed to be a sign at all? Looks more like a directive to me. A rather vague, loose one at that, one that relies almost entirely on the willingness of believers to perceive it as true.

Those who don't want to believe they won't believe regardless of any evidence or sign.

That quality of evidence does not even register to me, that much is true.

 

[McBell]

And that is the point, how our lifespan was fixed that way, was it planned or just happened to be so?

You have mastered the art of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

If our lifespan was "fixed that way" and we mere flawed humans moved the goal post, what does that say about the "fixer" of the life spans?

 

[FearGod]

You have mastered the art of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

If our lifespan was "fixed that way" and we mere flawed humans moved the goal post, what does that say about the "fixer" of the life spans?

It says that death isn't the work of nature, it can't be due to mutations and natural selection and hence a plan.

 

[LuisDantas]

It says that death isn't the work of nature, it can't be due to mutations and natural selection and hence a plan.

No, it doesn't even say that.

Out of curiosity, how do you distinguish nature from creation?

 

[FearGod]

No, it doesn't even say that.

Out of curiosity, how do you distinguish nature from creation?

Creation means there's a plan and an idea whereas nature doesn't have it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Creation means there's a plan and an idea whereas nature doesn't have it.

That sounds awfully inconvenient. Because it means that you will keep learning that you were mistaken about assuming that some things where created.

 

[FearGod]

That sounds awfully inconvenient. Because it means that you will keep learning that you were mistaken about assuming that some things where created.

And you're assuming that it just happened to be so, sounds to me magic.
The problem with you that you don't see the acting force, what you see is nature
and you can't think out of it.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

It is just the way that our body chemistry works out. Our cells degenerate after about 70 years.

Yes, 'just the way it worked out'- there is no inherent reason we cannot live longer. You don't see a teensy evolutionary advantage for a species to be biologically immortal?

Yet the same magical system than can produce all the sophisticated components for a fully functional eye overnight, can't simply shut off this degeneration timer? coincidence perhaps- but yet one more coincidence which is not in any way necessary to an unguided materialistic world, but is absolutely crucial to a rich, beautiful, diversity of meaningful life. Once more instance of the die rolling a six, you never suspect that it might be loaded?

 

[LuisDantas]

And you're assuming that it just happened to be so, sounds to me magic.

Hardly. I have studied and learned some.

Enough, apparently, not to be swayed too easily. But it is not like I remember ever being quite too receptive.

The problem with you that you don't see the acting force, what you see is nature
and you can't think out of it.

No. My "problem" is that I am not very superstitious and I have not been scared from birth into pretense of belief.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, 'just the way it worked out'- there is no inherent reason we cannot live longer. You don't see a teensy evolutionary advantage for a species to be biologically immortal?

There is no good reason to assume such an advantage. Atl least not for human beings.

Perhaps if we somehow developed less fertility, more mental and moral prowess. But not humans as they exist now.

Yet the same magical system than can produce all the sophisticated components for a fully functional eye overnight, can't simply shut off this degeneration timer?

Which fictional world are you talking about? Is it sci-fi or old fashioned fantasy?

It is not this world, that much is certain. Or perhaps you just can't be bothered to learn about what you intend to talk about.

Either way, fantasy-world talk is not convincing as argument.

coincidence perhaps- but yet one more coincidence which is not in any way necessary to an unguided materialistic world, but is absolutely crucial to a rich, beautiful, diversity of meaningful life. Once more instance of the die rolling a six, you never suspect that it might be loaded?

Is there a movie?

 

[McBell]

It says that death isn't the work of nature,

based on what, exactly?

it can't be due to mutations and natural selection

Why not?

and hence a plan.

grasping at straws

 

[FearGod]

Hardly. I have studied and learned some.

Enough, apparently, not to be swayed too easily. But it is not like I remember ever being quite too receptive.

Learned what?

No. My "problem" is that I am not very superstitious and I have not been scared from birth into pretense of belief.

No one actually is scared, If you're in a closed room and a cobra came close to you then
you'll be scared, the snake is one simple creation that can scare you, but you don't need to be scared
from the one who can easily beat your arrogance.

 

[ChristineM]

I don't have to explain a sentence by writing a book, the thing is that one member compared
my OP for death as equivalent to gravity, both are product of nature.

I commented that both are incomparable, gravity is always there, but our lives aren't.
The origin of life started from a primitive form of life to more complex ones, that isn't
the case with gravity, the gravity has been established and that's it, but death is programmed
to happen, not for the benefit of the species but for earth and life to survive which indicates a plan.

So yo can't explain your nonsense regarding bacteria and modern life. Fair enough.

 

[FearGod]

So yo can't explain your nonsense regarding bacteria and modern life. Fair enough.

My explanations were much better than their assumptions "it just happened to be so"
and then accepting it as a fact.

 

[LuisDantas]

Learned what?

Biology, psychology of perception, and statistics, mainly.

No one actually is scared, If you're in a closed room and a cobra came close to you then
you'll be scared, the snake is one simple creation that can scare you, but you don't need to be scared
from the one who can easily beat your arrogance.

That makes no sense in two completely different ways.

 

[FearGod]

Biology, psychology of perception, and statistics, mainly

And you don't have a scientific answer other than " it just happened to be so"

That makes no sense in two completely different ways.

What do you mean by two different ways?

 

[LuisDantas]

And you don't have a scientific answer other than " it just happened to be so"

I am not a scientist, but even then that is just not true. Just to you directly I must have mentioned selective pressure well over a half dozen times. It is not my fault that you can't remember or handle the concept.

What do you mean by two different ways?

On the one hand, it is a meaningless comparison. On the other hand, is that bit about "being scared from the one who can beat my arrogance" meant to make any sense? Either logically or morally? Because it quite failed at both accounts.