Death

[godnotgod]

God is spirit.

...except for the fact that He became flesh:

John 1:14



14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

The Sons of God are spirit.

No, they are flesh led by the spirit:

“all [men] who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God” (Romans 8:14)

The incorruptible body is spirit.

Spirits do not have bodies; that is why they are spirits; only bodies have bodies. An incorruptible body is flesh that does not rot. Holy Zombies!

As for the Gospel accounts...not everyone believes them.

Why,.... those.....#$%$#!.

The flesh must be surrendered.

Is there a choice?:biglaugh:

You will stand up in spirit...or rot in your grave.

Neither. Only bodies can stand up or rot. Since I do not exist to begin with, there will be no one there to do either.

Unlike you, I do not make the distinction between "spirit" and "flesh". I agree with the Bible, when it says "and the Word became flesh", it means that the spirit is none other than the flesh, and the flesh none other than the spirit.

 

[godnotgod]

"Life itself is a disease with a very poor prognosis, it lingers on for years and invariably ends with death!

Carl Jung

 

[Thief]

In an earlier post you lay claim that I have fear.

I would say the same of you.
Your discussion will end. And you expect no accountability for your words.
The worst that could happen to you would be Someone stomping a worthless fruit into the ground.

You will never stand before Someone bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.
You will not crossover.
You will not transcend.
You will not retain thought or feeling.
As if you were never born.

I think your afraid to have your words held to your consequence.
Your only escape is to fail the spiritual life.

 

[Dezzie]

What do you "see" when you die? Anybody have any interesting Near Death Experiences? I've always wondered what it's going to be like. First I thought it would be pitch blackness, like when you close your eyes. Then I thought it would be brightness and peacefulness. I have many views on what the afterlife is going to be like, but cant decide on one. Please help!?

The only answer I can come up with for this is: You won't know until you die. That's my best answer. Unless you want us to explain what the description of it is from different religious texts... but that may not give you a valid answer.

 

[godnotgod]

Your discussion will end. And you expect no accountability for your words.

What kinds of things have I said that you think I need to answer to?

Who's keeping score?

The worst that could happen to you would be Someone stomping a worthless fruit into the ground.

Now who's words will be held accountable? You call one of the gifts of the Incarnation a 'worthless fruit'? One that is freely given to you and which provides for your ongoing nourishment and sustenance?

You will never stand before Someone bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.

"Place no head above your own"
Buddha

You will not crossover.
You will not transcend.
You will not retain thought or feeling.

That baggage was left behind on the other shore.

Who is it that "crosses over'?
Who is it that "transcends"?

As if you were never born.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere!

Yours truly,
Not Born,
Not Dead.

I think your afraid to have your words held to your consequence.
Your only escape is to fail the spiritual life.

Excuse me? I have stood behind every word I have ever posted on these forums.

Now tell me: what do you want of me?

 

[godnotgod]

The only answer I can come up with for this is: You won't know until you die. That's my best answer. Unless you want us to explain what the description of it is from different religious texts... but that may not give you a valid answer.

Hello Dezzie, and welcome. Maybe you can answer the question I have been posing here:

Who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?

 

[Thief]

What kinds of things have I said that you think I need to answer to?

Who's keeping score?

Now who's words will be held accountable? You call one of the gifts of the Incarnation a 'worthless fruit'? One that is freely given to you and which provides for your ongoing nourishment and sustenance?

"Place no head above your own"
Buddha


That baggage was left behind on the other shore.



Who is it that "crosses over'?
Who is it that "transcends"?


Ah, now we're getting somewhere!

Yours truly,
Not Born,
Not Dead.

Excuse me? I have stood behind every word I have ever posted on these forums.

Now tell me: what do you want of me?

Actually...I want nothing of you...and you have nothing to offer.

I'm just hoping to point out the end result of your line of thought....
which is....nothing.

Most people who believe is spiritual life, believe they continue after death.
We don't lose ourselves, our loved ones, our memories, thoughts and feelings.
Of course heaven is a place of peace...peace first.
Not everyone will be allowed to enter.

Naysayers have potential...but the likelihood is greatly reduced.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Good man!:cigar:

What do you mean, "I'll be ready no matter where I am."? What does being ready entail? Will you always make certain you are wearing clean underwear?

St. Peter: "Yes, I see your name is here on the roster...Heavenly Heathen, eh?"
HH: "Uh...yes...that would be...me!"
St. Peter: "Very good, then....you may enter...."
HH: "Aw-right! (HH begins to rush ahead)
St. Peter: "....but first we need to do a drawer check....drop 'em"
HH: "....but..." (HH sheepiishly drops his skibbies...
St. Peter and the Heavenly Host: (gasping) "Heaven forbid...for Shame!...they're....OMG!...get out!"
HH: "but....I just washed them last week...."
St. Peter: "Downstairs with the rest of them!":rainbow1:


"Leave your soul slightly ajar in anticipation of the ecstatic moment"
Sufi saying

Last week, DANG! I forgot my wash day was last week... He'd be really surprised now, haha.

 

[godnotgod]

Actually...I want nothing of you...

Well, apparently you do want something, and that is for me to cow down to your God, as you stated:

"You will never stand before Someone bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced."....

....but when I did not, you then adopt a clipped attitude.

....and you have nothing to offer.

You mean I do not offer what you expect, which would be more programmed, cookie cutter dribble designed to induce warm fuzzy feelings of thumb sucking security. Goo goo, gah gah, more candy, please!

I'm just hoping to point out the end result of your line of thought....
which is....nothing.

That is correct, simply because I cannot offer more than what has already been given, and what has been given is everything. All I can do is to point to it. That is all. Notice I said "what has already been given", compared to what you claim to offer, all of which is only available after death, rendering your offering neither here nor there, it being based only on a blind belief, rather than the reality of what is at hand. The bottom line of your offering is that it is, essentially, pure, unadulterated fluff, and fluff, as we all know, is nothing more than empty calories.

So, if Enlightenment and the gifts of the Incarnation that I can only point to as being available to everyone in this Present Moment is nothing in comparison to your pie in the sky offering only available after death, which is more realisitic?

Most people who believe in spiritual life, believe they continue after death.

That is not so. You are speaking of people who believe in the religious life of belief and doctrine, not the spiritual life, which is without beliefs or doctrine. People who have had authentic spiritual experiences are not concerned with "life after death", but with the Here and Now. (Read the parable of the lilies of the field.) Such people have been spiritually transformed in such a manner that they no longer think of themselves as possessing an entity that survives death. Besides, how ridiculous to think that you will continue on after death the way you now are. Think about it. You are a product of your time and place, of memory, of knowledge, of learning, of history. You would be completely lost in the realm of the Eternal and the Infinite with the baggage that you now call "I".

We don't lose ourselves, our loved ones, our memories, thoughts and feelings.

Oh, no? Do you remember anything from before your birth? Are you now that same person you were then? In fact, are you the same person now that you were at age 5?

Of course heaven is a place of peace...peace first.
Not everyone will be allowed to enter.

Is that because those who are refused entry are those who bring the baggage of who they are in this life with them to the Pearly Gates?

"We ain't gonna take you.
Never did and never will.
We're not gonna take you.
We forsake you.
Gonna rape you.
Let's forget you better still."

from 'Tommy', by The Who

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is more, pure "nothing" offered by godnotgod:

Story:

A man dies and goes to Heaven. Knocking on the Pearly Gates, he hears a voice from within: "Who is it?", asks the voice. "Me, Lord....it is Me." "Sorry, but we have no 'me's' on our list. Begone!" Perplexed, the man goes away to ponder the problem. After a week, he returns, knocking loudly on the Gates once more. "Who goes there?" asks a voice from within. "Me, Lord!...you know...ME!...ME!...ME!" shouts the man. "Nope! There are no 'ME's here. Go away!" Now the man stays away for an entire year, deeply pondering the question. Finally, he returns, gently knocking on the Gates. "Yes?" asks a voice from within. "Who is it?" "Why, it is none other then YOU, oh Lord." says the man, at which the Gates swing wide open.

 

[godnotgod]

I think your afraid to have your words held to your consequence.
Your only escape is to fail the spiritual life.

You talk up a big pile of fluff, but it is all hot air. You never answer questions, just make ad hominem attacks, without substance. Now you say that I am afraid to have my words held up to scrutiny. I don't think you know how to have a discussion. If you have something to say about my words, then say them, instead of playing games. All you have done so far is to use scare tactics of rotting in the grave and threats of punishment unless I do such and such. However, your doctrine of "see I told you so", and "just you wait and see" is born of a punitive mind.

Now, I stand here out in the open, without fear, waiting for you to come forward with something intelligent to say. If there is something I have stated on these forums with which you have issue, then please, don't be shy. Just step forward and get it off your chest.

I have tried repeatedly to demonstrate to you the metaphor of an orange growing out of an orange tree for man being grown by the universe, but you still don't quite grasp that it is only a metaphor. I never said that man was an orange, but that is what you keep repeating. Do you not understand that that is NOT what I am saying?

 

[godnotgod]

What do you "see" when you die? Anybody have any interesting Near Death Experiences? I've always wondered what it's going to be like. First I thought it would be pitch blackness, like when you close your eyes. Then I thought it would be brightness and peacefulness. I have many views on what the afterlife is going to be like, but cant decide on one. Please help!?

To paraphrase something TS Elliot once said:

"Thou hast nor life nor death, but, as it were,
an after-dinner sleep,
dreaming on both"

Come to think of it, life itself is a near-death experience from one moment to the next!

We're just an ego dragging around a dead corpse, fer Chris'sakes!

 

[Thief]

In review of postings...this thread.

I see my postings to be brief and to the point.
Death comes.
You will stand up from your dead body or you won't.
You will move on in spirit or you won't.
If you fail to stand, you will follow your body into the box....
and in the box into the grave.

Eternal darkness is physically real.

I've not seen any discussion that can remove this.

 

[godnotgod]

In review of postings...this thread.

I see my postings to be brief and to the point.
Death comes.
You will stand up from your dead body or you won't.
You will move on in spirit or you won't.
If you fail to stand, you will follow your body into the box....
and in the box into the grave.

Eternal darkness is physically real.

I've not seen any discussion that can remove this.

Well, let us take care of that little detail right now, OK?

You have not demonstrated that there is any "you" that either stands up or follows the body into the box. In fact, you have not even demonstrated that there is such a thing as "death". All you are doing is discussing concepts and appearances. Concepts and appearances are not reality.

If you are afraid of darkness, then light your lamp.

You said a very interesting thing: "eternal darkness is physically real".

Darkness is not physical, but the body is.

You are still attached to your body. Do you suppose that you can physically experience darkness in the grave for all eternity? Do you think you can be in your corpse as a conscious being? I think this is just your fear talking. Deal with your fear first, and then the terrifying imagery it is producing in your mind will vanish when the light enters.

 

[Thief]

Well, let us take care of that little detail right now, OK?

You have not demonstrated that there is any "you" that either stands up or follows the body into the box. In fact, you have not even demonstrated that there is such a thing as "death". All you are doing is discussing concepts and appearances. Concepts and appearances are not reality.

If you are afraid of darkness, then light your lamp.

You said a very interesting thing: "eternal darkness is physically real".

Darkness is not physical, but the body is.

You are still attached to your body. Do you suppose that you can physically experience darkness in the grave for all eternity? Do you think you can be in your corpse as a conscious being? I think this is just your fear talking. Deal with your fear first, and then the terrifying imagery it is producing in your mind will vanish when the light enters.

How you dribble.
Obviously...I believe in life after death.
Obviously...I believe the spirit rises from the body.
Unless of course...you fail to stand up.

If you succeed in standing up, you will deal with any and all, having gone before you.
Therefore...
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.
Because it will be done unto you as you have done unto others.

 

[godnotgod]

How you dribble.
Obviously...I believe in life after death.
Obviously...I believe the spirit rises from the body.
Unless of course...you fail to stand up.

If you succeed in standing up, you will deal with any and all, having gone before you.
Therefore...
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.
Because it will be done unto you as you have done unto others.

I am afraid I will have to abort our "discussion" as it is quite obvious that you lack comprehension of the material being discussed. You don't answer questions, you state your beliefs without explaining what those beliefs are based upon (honestly, I don't think you really know, do you?), and you completely ignore responses to your questions and statement.

I may as well be talking to an incoherent drunk.

Later....:sorry1:

 

[samaste.march]

Afterlife is comes after death. Life is that which each and every moment of your life with pay full and complete attention. Death is that what happens after life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are still attached to your body. Do you suppose that you can physically experience darkness in the grave for all eternity? Do you think you can be in your corpse as a conscious being? I think this is just your fear talking. Deal with your fear first, and then the terrifying imagery it is producing in your mind will vanish when the light enters.

All of Adam 100% ended up in the grave [dust of the earth] for all eternity.
Adam at death was not a conscious corpse but returned to dust.

According to Romans [6v7], except for those of Matt [12v32] which includes Adam, at death the dead are freed or acquitted from sin. This would not mean innocent but pardoned as a governor might pardon a person meaning the charges no longer stick. Or in this case, the sin charges from our imperfection no longer stick.
Death stamps that price tag of sin as Paid In Full.

Jesus death made that 'pardon' possible,
but still we can Not resurrect oneself or another from death's sleep.
[John 11vs11-14; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc 9v5,10]
We need someone to resurrect us either to heaven or earth.-[Acts 24v15]
Jesus takes his 'little flock' [Luke 12v32] to heaven, while the 'other sheep' [John 10v16] such as the earthly sheep of Matthew [25v32], live on earth with the prospect of everlasting life in view on earth starting with Jesus millennial reign over earth.

Those destroyed by the words from Jesus mouth, described as being as sharp as an executioner's sword, will be annihilated [dust like Adam] for all eternity.
[Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15; Psalm 92v7; Hebrews 2v14 B]

 

[Thief]

All of Adam 100% ended up in the grave [dust of the earth] for all eternity.
Adam at death was not a conscious corpse but returned to dust.

According to Romans [6v7], except for those of Matt [12v32] which includes Adam, at death the dead are freed or acquitted from sin. This would not mean innocent but pardoned as a governor might pardon a person meaning the charges no longer stick. Or in this case, the sin charges from our imperfection no longer stick.
Death stamps that price tag of sin as Paid In Full.

Jesus death made that 'pardon' possible,
but still we can Not resurrect oneself or another from death's sleep.
[John 11vs11-14; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc 9v5,10]
We need someone to resurrect us either to heaven or earth.-[Acts 24v15]
Jesus takes his 'little flock' [Luke 12v32] to heaven, while the 'other sheep' [John 10v16] such as the earthly sheep of Matthew [25v32], live on earth with the prospect of everlasting life in view on earth starting with Jesus millennial reign over earth.

Those destroyed by the words from Jesus mouth, described as being as sharp as an executioner's sword, will be annihilated [dust like Adam] for all eternity.
[Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15; Psalm 92v7; Hebrews 2v14 B]

Almost.....
Free of sin is indeed a grace bestowed....
But life after death has never been guaranteed.
That you are allowed entry into heaven is not revealed until you stand at the door...knocking.

I will now start a thread topic to show you....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Almost.....
Free of sin is indeed a grace bestowed....
But life after death has never been guaranteed.
That you are allowed entry into heaven is not revealed until you stand at the door...knocking.
.

Didn't Jesus guarantee life after death except for those of Matt 12v32?_____
see also: Hebrews 6vs4-6

Wasn't it at Jesus baptism that his heavenly life was opened and revealed?
Didn't Jesus offer heavenly life to his apostles to rule with him? Rev 5vs9,10

Those resurrected holy ones would be in heaven ruling over earthly subjects of God's kingdom living on earth starting with the living sheep-like ones of Matthew [25vs31,32] as Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting with the divine intervention of his millennial reign over earth.

 

[Thief]

Didn't Jesus guarantee life after death except for those of Matt 12v32?_____
see also: Hebrews 6vs4-6

Wasn't it at Jesus baptism that his heavenly life was opened and revealed?
Didn't Jesus offer heavenly life to his apostles to rule with him? Rev 5vs9,10

Those resurrected holy ones would be in heaven ruling over earthly subjects of God's kingdom living on earth starting with the living sheep-like ones of Matthew [25vs31,32] as Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting with the divine intervention of his millennial reign over earth.

He also said to His disciples...
'Many will come in My Name, even doing good things, and I know them not.'

Maybe you noticed?
God is willing, that His favored angel be cast out.
If God's favored angel can lose his position, even that position at the right hand of God....
Then no position is guaranteed.

It will take discipline...on your part ....that you enter eternal life.
And will it not require even greater discipline that you stay there?