Debate a Muslim

[A Vestigial Mote]

- What are you even talking about?! I don't understand what you're saying.
- You are assuming that Western history being violent implies non-Western history is equally or also violent. It's not. +50% of wars & +50% of death toll is instigated to the West.

Holy crap. Here you go again.

I'm going to try and spell this out in a very straightforward, and hopefully simplistic manner.

You were asked questions in this quote:

I see a lot of Muslim cultures around the world threatening violence against Muslims who deconvert or question the faith. Do you think true ideas need protection against questioning, or usually do only false ideas need this shield? When we see these restrictions used historically to protect the false claims of cults, other religions, authoritarian rulers, and the claims of con artists, what does this tell us about Islam's claims?

And your response was that people "shouldn't throw stones from glass houses" and that a lot of violence is committed "in the west." Which has nothing to do with actually answering the questions. Does it in your estimation?

I feel compelled to let you know - lack of ability to understand simple points or answer simple questions like this is entirely unimpressive. You created this thread apparently looking to dazzle everyone with your debate skills and vast knowledge of some subject or another, and yet you can't even bother to answer questions put to you, but instead dance around like so many other theists who get uncomfortable with a particular subject. I suggest that if you are looking to impress upon anyone that you are "correct" or that you even have any idea what you are talking about, then you fix this about your behaviors. Don't give complete non-sequiturs as supposed "answers." It's ridiculous, and looks good on no one. From my perspective, your religion currently suffers for having you as a member with behavior like this.

 

[SA Huguenot]

ITs like this Blu. When you say "islamic teachings" some say there were a million ahadith memorised only by Ibn Hanbal.

Anyway, there is a weak hadith that speaks about houris which doesn't mean virgins. Some people turn it into virgins because of the white eye connotation.

Nope, the Quran say they are virgins, untouched by men with nice breasts.
Gee pal... did you ever read the quran?

 

[Meow Mix]

36:55["Companions",
37:48 "with large and beautiful eyes",
38:52 "companions of modest gaze well matched (at thirty-three years of age according to some commentators)"
44:54 wide and beautiful eyes",
52:20 "beautiful houris of wide and beautiful eyes",
55:56 "untouched beforehand by man or jinn",
55:58 "as elegant as rubies and coral",
55:72 "bright-eyed damsels in sheltered in pavilions",
55:74 "untouched by any man", "reclining on green cushions and beautiful carpets",
56:8 / 56:22 "with intensely black eyes set against the whiteness of their irises",
56:35 "created without the process of birth",
78:31–33 and as "splendid companions".

Ha...
If any Muslim scholar would like the western people to think the Horis is not female companions given out to Muslim men for the purpose of sex, they have to discard even more of their religion, and forget how Allah describes these damsels with nice breasts, virgins never touched by men given to the Muslim men as companions.

Oh, then again, these Muslims must ignore what all their aiatilahs, Immams and scholars teaches them.
Such a Muslim who denies the Horis allah gives to Muslim men in paradise, is actually saying Islam is false!
and thirdly, he should not try to convince me that the Muslim man gets 72 or 700 whoriss if he gives his life for Allah.
To me it is useless.

He should go an teach this to those Muslim men who goes out with bombs around their bodies, blowing themself and inocent people up, so they can get to paradise to have sex with his whores.

Are these not from hadiths? How are these determined whether they’re accurate?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Thank you.

What then is a houri? In particular, is a houri a potential sexual partner?

Yip!
And a nice one too. and she has 11 more that joins you.

 

[firedragon]

I did. Why would it require a threat against him?

It doesnt.

And the opinion was that he should be killed. That meant he had to go into hiding to protect himself.

Sorry, but that makes the person issuing the fatwa evil.

Of course.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Are these not from hadiths? How are these determined whether they’re accurate?

Oh sorry.
I did not mention, and onbviously you wont recognise the notation.
It comes from the Quran itself.
It shows the first digets, the chapter, then the following digits are the verses

 

[firedragon]

nice breasts

Whats the word for nice breasts used there?

 

[Polymath257]

All of that is made up.

Ill tell you what? With people like you, what is required is cut and paste. What you say? Shall we do that game? You just said Whoris to pun at prostitution. Cheapness like you, will get unscholarly, cut and pastes. Here you go.

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Yes, the old testament (in particular) has some very bad laws. This doesn't excuse other bad laws.

Can we agree both sets of laws should be eliminated?

 

[viole]

This is getting interesting. Do you know how your flawless slaughter houses work?

Nope. Do you?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Polymath257]

God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 )

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 )

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-

3) Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 )

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 )

All horrible things. So nobody should live by those rules. Agreed?

 

[Polymath257]

Sometimes women may not be able to go to a courtroom.

The same is true for men. Why the differences?

 

[firedragon]

All horrible things. So nobody should live by those rules. Agreed?

They are in response to a very unworthy cut and paste artist.

Thats not the way to understand biblical literature.

 

[firedragon]

The same is true for men. Why the differences?

Not the same.

Do you think men and women should get the same amount of maternity leave?

 

[viole]

told you the word is genderless.

You mean all those terrorists died to mate in Heaven with some genderless souls? That is what I call making a trip without enough information about the destination

Ciao

- viole

 

[Polymath257]

Not the same.

Do you think men and women should get the same amount of maternity leave?

Yes.

And how is that relevant? A woman can still show up if she is pregnant or has just given birth.

This seems like an irrelevant justification for a silly rule.

 

[viole]

Not the same.

Do you think men and women should get the same amount of maternity leave?

Yes, why do you ask? Should be obvious.
Ciao

- viole

 

[firedragon]

Yes.

Then government laws are tyrannical right? I mean men and women both should get leave. But how about reducing women's maternity leave to equate the men? In some countries, 3 days for men, and 3 months for women. Then half day for another six months. Paid.

 

[SA Huguenot]

You mean all those terrorists died to mate in Heaven with some genderless souls? That is what I call making a trip without enough information about the destination

Ciao

- viole

Brilliant!!!

 

[Polymath257]

Then government laws are tyrannical right? I mean men and women both should get leave. But how about reducing women's maternity leave to equate the men? In some countries, 3 days for men, and 3 months for women. Then half day for another six months. Paid.

That governments have bad laws doesn't justify a bad rule. A bad law is not the same as tyranny.

Both men and women should get paid maternity leave for time enough to bond with the new child.

 

[firedragon]

Yes, why do you ask? Should be obvious.
Ciao

- viole

You should tell your government because they give 14 weeks for women maternity leave and two weeks for men, paternity leave. Tyranny.