Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Well off topic.

That is why I gave you a link to where it is on topic.

You said you are not accountable to the law (you starting a new topic)
I said you are and if you want to debate it go to a thread where it is the topic of the thread.

 

[fishy]

That is why I gave you a link to where it is on topic.

You said you are not accountable to the law (you starting a new topic)
I said you are and if you want to debate it go to a thread where it is the topic of the thread.

I said I wasn't accountable to your little book, lets stick with the big one, meaning the bible which you allegedly believe as well. When you decided to insert a heresy concerning a creator.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I said I wasn't accountable to your little book, lets stick with the big one, meaning the bible which you allegedly believe as well. When you decided to insert a heresy concerning a creator.

You are right, you are not accountable to the book, you are accountable to the laws and some of those laws just happen to be written in the book.

like I said before, if you want to call that statement about the creator a heresy, go argue that on that link. No one has been able to beat it so far. I don't think you will either.

 

[fishy]

You are right, you are not accountable to the book, you are accountable to the laws and some of those laws just happen to be written in the book.

like I said before, if you want to call that statement about the creator a heresy, go argue that on that link. No one has been able to beat it so far. I don't think you will either.

Look personally I don't care whether it's heresy or not, it's meaningless to me.
If an infinite omnipotent being wants us to be superhuman, then why aren't we?

 

[fishy]

like I said before, if you want to call that statement about the creator a heresy, go argue that on that link. No one has been able to beat it so far. I don't think you will either.

It was beaten the moment it appeared on AiG.............nuff said. BTW according to a hassidic jew I know, hebrew doesn't possess any verbs, go figure.

 

[godnotgod]

Maybe we are on a similar page in thinking here. Except I don't know that we can be sure there's an actual rope.

From which reference point are you making making that statement?

 

[godnotgod]

I don't think you can have joy without the potential for suffering. In order to perceive joy you also have to be capable of perceiving the lack of it. Otherwise the perception of it has no meaning.

Therefore the justification is so joy will have meaning/value to us.

We have freedom of perception. We are free to perceive life as joy or suffering. If we decide to see life as suffering, I don't know that we can blame God for that.

We can of course blame God for allowing us that freedom of perception. But it's still up to you how you choose to use it.

You are referring to Relative Joy and Relative Suffering, which are inseparable but temporal. Absolute Joy has no opposite and is eternal.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

You are referring to Relative Joy and Relative Suffering, which are inseparable but temporal. Absolute Joy has no opposite and is eternal.

What about Absolute misery?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

It was beaten the moment it appeared on AiG.............nuff said. BTW according to a hassidic jew I know, hebrew doesn't possess any verbs, go figure.

what is AiG? and what is a Hassidic Jew? I don't think he knew what he was talking about

"Hebrew grammar is partly analytic, expressing such forms as dative, ablative, and accusative using prepositional particles rather than grammatical cases. However, inflection plays a decisive role in the formation of the verbs and nouns. E.g. nouns have a construct state, called "smikhut", to denote the relationship of "belonging to": this is the converse of the genitive case of more inflected languages. Words in smikhut are often combined with hyphens. In modern speech, the use of the construct is sometimes interchangeable with the preposition "shel", meaning "of". There are many cases, however, where older declined forms are retained (especially in idiomatic expressions and the like), and "person"-enclitics are widely used to "decline" prepositions." ~Wikipedia

 

[fishy]

what is AiG? and what is a Hassidic Jew? I don't think he knew what he was talking about

Wow, thanks for the wiki, but I'll believe a Jewish Rabbi who has studied Torah and Tanakh for 50yrs in Hebrew. You are entitled to believe what you want, as you do. AiG is a well known cartoon site.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Wow, thanks for the wiki, but I'll believe a Jewish Rabbi who has studied Torah and Tanakh for 50yrs in Hebrew. You are entitled to believe what you want, as you do. AiG is a well known cartoon site.

So you are saying that the thread "God did not create anything" is on a well known cartoon site?

 

[godnotgod]

What about Absolute misery?

It may seem absolutely miserable to you when you are experiencing it, but it is still temporal, and therefore not Absolute. Absolute Joy is transcendent of all that is Relative Suffering and Relative Joy.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

It may seem absolutely miserable to you when you are experiencing it, but it is still temporal, and therefore not Absolute. Absolute Joy is transcendent of all that is Relative Suffering and Relative Joy.

I can't say that I have ever experienced absolute misery before, but that does not mean that I can rule it out.

What I can say though, is that the devil and his angels are in a state of absolute misery, as in it isn't relative or temporal suffering, for it goes on and on forever.

If we did not have a savior we would be in such a state.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

We would not be in danger of such a state if God didn't make it so.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

you are accountable to the laws of the universe whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. If you choose to be ungrateful you will be unhappy there is no way around it.l

Fortunately the real laws of the universe contain nothing about satisfying the petulant vagaries of your God. Im sure it feels good to be pretentious enough to threaten someone that God will punish them for their thoughts [in particular the thoughts you personally don't like]. But that's simply your ego making embarrassing statements in public.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Fortunately the real laws of the universe contain nothing about satisfying the petulant vagaries of your God. Im sure it feels good to be pretentious enough to threaten someone that God will punish them for their thoughts [in particular the thoughts you personally don't like]. But that's simply your ego making embarrassing statements in public.

what do you mean by petulant vagaries of my God?

Does God need to threaten? The fact is that impure thoughts threaten you.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

what do you mean by petulant vagaries of my God?

Does God need to threaten? The fact is that impure thoughts threaten you.

You certainly felt the need to threaten. Aren't you merely a reflection of your God?

Yes, you probably are.

Also, yes, your impure thoughts are something I make note of, but they can't threaten me, any more than an angry ant threatens me.

 

[fishy]

So you are saying that the thread "God did not create anything" is on a well known cartoon site?

No not at all, how ridiculous. The evidence used is found on a well known cartoon site.

 

[godnotgod]

I can't say that I have ever experienced absolute misery before, but that does not mean that I can rule it out.

What I can say though, is that the devil and his angels are in a state of absolute misery, as in it isn't relative or temporal suffering, for it goes on and on forever.

If we did not have a savior we would be in such a state.

That a condition of eternal and absolute suffering exists and that a savior is needed to keep one from such a condition is an outcome of your BELIEF, and not of any reality that anyone has ever actually experienced. While the most excruciating pain and suffering may SEEM to go on forever while it is occurring, we know of no state that does not eventually come to an end. Because men experience Relative Joy in this world, they also experience Relative Suffering. However, it is possible for man to transcend both and experience Absolute Joy in this lifetime. Both Buddha and Yeshu were messengers to man of Absolute Joy. Unfortunately, the pure teachings of Yeshu were corrupted by St. Paul who overwrote them with pagan doctrines of blood sacrifice and all the rest of that poppycock.

 

[Caladan]

Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

Even a deity needs a source of entertainment.
in fact, an infinite deity needs an infinite source of entertainment.