December?

[may]

Interestingly we don't wear wedding rings. The rings we do wear, though they look like western wedding bands, are actually engagement rings and whilst these are blessed also (we have an engagement ceremony in the Church) they actually do not signify the marriage at all. I dare say that these do have their origins in the Roman practice of exchanging rings for agreements as an engagement is an agreement. Marriage, for us, is not and so no vows are made and no rings exchanged - we are crowned to symbolise martyrdom instead. I had never really made the connection with the rings before, but surely it's quite wrong to call something pagan if it comes from the secular sphere, in which case from what I can tell exchanging rings might be Roman but doesn't appear pagan.

James

yes ,the wedding ring is not worn in all parts of the world . customs vary.

 

[constantine]

Constantine said no such thing. He set the date for neither Christmas nor Pascha (Easter) and, in fact, Christmas was mostly a western festival in its early years with the east celebrating Theophany above it. It took a very long time and a lot more than one person to standardize the calendar.

Well, I'd love to know which pagan holiday Pascha supposedly falls into line with (and what about the third Great Feast, Theophany?). Given that Pascha moves every year because it is tied to a Jewish lunar calendar, I find it hard to believe that there can possibly be a pagan feast it corresponds to. This is nothing more than wishful thinking based on extremely shoddy 'scholarship'. The actually history of the calendar does not support anything you have posted here.

James

First of all.. constantine commissioned the NT. While the pagans celebrated winter solstice and vernal equinox, (that does move every year to the lunar calendar) this time of year was set for christian celebration. How could he not set a specific date for Christs birthday? lt sounds to me your "scholarship" may be based on a somewhat bias one. Mine is not.

 

[Super Universe]

could you show me that in the bible .

Can you show me in your bible where it says that Jesus assumed the title as king of the earth in 1914?

Or that Jesus died on the stake instead of the cross?

Or that parents should let their children die instead of giving them a life saving blood transplant?

 

[James the Persian]

First of all.. constantine commissioned the NT.

He did no such thing. The canon wasn't even completed in his lifetime. The first council to mention the books of the NT canon we have today was the Council of Carthage at the end of the 4th century (about 70 years after Nicea), and even that had only local authority. The canon wasn't finally settled until even later than that, when Constantine was long gone.

While the pagans celebrated winter solstice and vernal equinox, (that does move every year to the lunar calendar)

Solstices and equinoxes are solar, not lunar events. Seems like you might need to bone up on your astronomy, because such things show that they used a solar calendar.

this time of year was set for christian celebration.

Not true. 25th December is close to but not on the winter solstice (not even on the Julian calendar at the time), Pascha is the first Sunday after the Paschal moon, which happens to always fall after the vernal equinox, never on it. There is no Christian celebration on either the summer solstice or autumnal equinox. Your bias is showing again.

How could he not set a specific date for Christs birthday?

He just didn't and he would have had to have ben a time traveller to do so. The feast of Christmas was not introduced to Constantinople until 379 AD and Constantine died in 337. Are you suggesting that his ghost set the date?

lt sounds to me your "scholarship" may be based on a somewhat bias one. Mine is not.

Er... yeah, that's how it looks to me to. History supports you, the ahistorical bias is all mine, and of course dead Emperors dictate Christian holidays from beyond the grave!

James

 

[may]

Can you show me in your bible where it says that Jesus assumed the title as king of the earth in 1914?

Or that Jesus died on the stake instead of the cross?

Or that parents should let their children die instead of giving them a life saving blood transplant?

Jesus was made king in the HEAVENLY kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 inline with bible prophecy and chronology in 1914 , i think more research is in order for you . the bible is a book of prophecy and the prophecy regarding Jesus kingship in the heavenly kingdom goverment is now well along , and soon Jesus will stand up and go into action just as the bible tells us ...........thrilling times indeed that we are living in, and many things are being revealed to his people in these the last days Daniel 12;4 . listening to Jesus and the channel that Jesus is feeding is the way to go and it is all for our benefit matthew 24;45-47 ........... nice ......... it keeps us clean in all ways . what a wonderful book the bible is if we take it on board.

 

[idiotchristian]

It doesn't really matter when Jesus bithday really was. The whole point is that we know he was born for our salvation and he is our greatest Gift. So we should set aside some time in the year to listen to his birth story and prayerfully reflect on that and celebrate it . The Church simply set aside December for that reason.


I celebrated my birthday a week late last year.

In the Jesus our King through Mary our Queen Mother,
Athanasius

praise the lord brother

 

[sojourner]

i dont think i have told others they are wrong .

"why december 25th ? i think i am correct in saying that yet again it is something to do with mixing true worship with false worship ."

In other words, we Christians who celebrate Christmas on December 25 are engaging in "false worship" and, therefore, are wrong.:yes:

 

[Feathers in Hair]

MOD POST

Please remember that this thread is in the discuss individual religions section. If you disagree with a post and are not of that religion, please refrain from posting unless you can inquire without debating. Thank you.

/End mod post

 

[may]

"why december 25th ? i think i am correct in saying that yet again it is something to do with mixing true worship with false worship ."

In other words, we Christians who celebrate Christmas on December 25 are engaging in "false worship" and, therefore, are wrong.:yes:

that is for us as individuals to decide ,looking into the roots of our beliefs is a good thing to do as it can reveal things that we may not have been aware of. i can only speak for myself but for me pure worship is important, because from my study of the bible i know that the true God does not want me to contaminate bible teachings with other beliefs . as it then becomes wrong . and i think i am correct in saying that many people know that their beliefs are contaminated but carry on with the contamination ................ and yes i do believe that this is False religion . especially when a person claims to be following the bible and its teachings .that is not to say that you should not be free to worship in that way if you choose . but for those after uncontaminated worship it would be a no no, and after all God tells his people to GET OUT OF HER REVELATION 18;4 this woman spoken of in revelation is the world wide empire of False religion. and Gods people are out of there. finding out what we are really worshiping is a very important thing to do .
your desire to please God is commendable. But are God and Christ actually pleased with the Christmas season? Consider its roots.

 

[may]

getting back to Jesus birth , am i correct in saying that Jesus was born about 6 months after John the baptist his cousin.

In Luke chapter 1, we read first about the pregnancy of Elizabeth, the wife of priest Zechariah, who bore John (the Baptizer). When Elizabeth was "in her sixth month the angel Gabriel" visited Mary to inform her that she would become pregnant and give birth to the "Son of the Most High." (Luke 1:26, 30-33) But when did Mary become pregnant?
Luke’s account goes on to relate that Mary thereupon traveled to Judah to visit her pregnant relative Elizabeth. When the two women met, the infant in Elizabeth’s womb (John) leaped. Elizabeth referred to ‘the fruit of Mary’s womb,’ and called Mary "the mother of my Lord." (Luke 1:39-44) The logical conclusion therefore is that Mary had already conceived, that she was pregnant when she went to see Elizabeth.​

Luke 1:56 reads: "Then Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her own home." This verse is not giving a precise calculation down to the exact calendar day. It says "about three months," which would put Elizabeth in her ninth month of pregnancy.

 

[James the Persian]

May,

What does it matter when Christ was actually born? Do you thinkthat finding out that it wasn't 25th December (which is hardly likely to shock anyone) would invalidate celebrating his birth on that date? Do you think the fact that Christ couldn't have been born in 1 AD (Herod being dead by then) invalidates our calendar? The whole point of trying to prove Christ wasn't born in December eludes me.

I mean, I'm pretty certain Christ wasn't baptised on 6th January either, given that that wouldn't be the best time of year to get yourself immersed in a river, and yet I still celebrate it then. When in the year an event occurred doesn't necessarily determine when it should be celebrated and if the two do not coincide it really makes no difference at all. Do you actually think most Christians think Christmas is Christ's 'birthday' in a literal sense? Or do you think they're just celebrating His birth on a traditional date? It's the latter and it's hardly unique to Christ. British monarchs, for instance, have an official birthday, traditionally celebrated by the nation which never corresponds to their actual birthday.

James

 

[may]

2 B.C.E. John the Baptizer born [about April], Jesus born [about October 1st.]

 

[James the Persian]

2 B.C.E. John the Baptizer born [about April], Jesus born [about October 1st.]

My first reaction is, so what? My second is that I think perhaps we can ignore your calendar calculations from now on. There's no way Christ could have been born in 2 BC because Herod Antipas had died two years prior to that. I believe the scholarly concensus puts the most likely year of Christ's birth at 6 BC.

James

 

[may]

May,

What does it matter when Christ was actually born? Do you thinkthat finding out that it wasn't 25th December (which is hardly likely to shock anyone) would invalidate celebrating his birth on that date? Do you think the fact that Christ couldn't have been born in 1 AD (Herod being dead by then) invalidates our calendar? The whole point of trying to prove Christ wasn't born in December eludes me.

I mean, I'm pretty certain Christ wasn't baptised on 6th January either, given that that wouldn't be the best time of year to get yourself immersed in a river, and yet I still celebrate it then. When in the year an event occurred doesn't necessarily determine when it should be celebrated and if the two do not coincide it really makes no difference at all. Do you actually think most Christians think Christmas is Christ's 'birthday' in a literal sense? Or do you think they're just celebrating His birth on a traditional date? It's the latter and it's hardly unique to Christ. British monarchs, for instance, have an official birthday, traditionally celebrated by the nation which never corresponds to their actual birthday.

James

i suppose its if we are after truth or not , would it be right to teach our children an untruth , because that is what happens at infancy school. or would it be better to teach our children the truth . did not Jesus always teach the truth ?

 

[may]

My first reaction is, so what? My second is that I think perhaps we can ignore your calendar calculations from now on. There's no way Christ could have been born in 2 BC because Herod Antipas had died two years prior to that. I believe the scholarly concensus puts the most likely year of Christ's birth at 6 BC.

James

and the bible puts it at 2 B.C.E. Sticking to the bible is the way to go .

 

[James the Persian]

i suppose its if we are after truth or not , would it be right to teach our children an untruth , because that is what happens at infancy school. or would it be better to teach our children the truth . did not Jesus always teach the truth ?

Fine, but your answer is only relevant to anyone who teaches that Christ was actually born on 25th December. We, and most Christians, do not. All we do do is use 25th December as the time to come together and celebrate the fact that He was born. When is not that relevant. So again I ask, why does it matter if Christ wasn't born on 25th December? Most of us know that it's unlikely and yet it makes no difference to us, so what difference could it possibly make to you?

James

 

[constantine]

Fine, but your answer is only relevant to anyone who teaches that Christ was actually born on 25th December. We, and most Christians, do not. All we do do is use 25th December as the time to come together and celebrate the fact that He was born. When is not that relevant. So again I ask, why does it matter if Christ wasn't born on 25th December? Most of us know that it's unlikely and yet it makes no difference to us, so what difference could it possibly make to you?

James

thats the point lve been trying to make with you. the TRUTH does not matter to you.

 

[James the Persian]

and the bible puts it at 2 B.C.E. Sticking to the bible is the way to go .

The Bible gives no date. You're interpretation of it is clearly wrong, though if it results in the absurd idea that Herod was alive two years after he is known to have died.

thats the point lve been trying to make with you. the TRUTH does not matter to you.

No the trutrh does matter to me (which is why I objected to your spreading your biased untruths). What does not matter is whether or not Christ was born on the date His birth is celebrated. That's completely irrelevant.

James

 

[constantine]

The Bible gives no date. You're interpretation of it is clearly wrong, though if it results in the absurd idea that Herod was alive two years after he is known to have died.



No the trutrh does matter to me (which is why I objected to your spreading your biased untruths). What does not matter is whether or not Christ was born on the date His birth is celebrated. That's completely irrelevant.

James

irrelevant when it suits you and doesnt embarrass your belief. why dont or wont you admit that it all untrue. my stories,her stories,YOUR stories. lve heard of people believing everything they read but this is a joke.:yes:

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Ok, I havent read all the posts (this is getting to be a trait with me ) so sorry if I am repeating things! You JWs do make me laugh - have you ever heard of the term.......

Good shall overcome evil? (no offense to pagans etc I am making a point, I personally dont think your evil!)

The reason they put christmas on december 25th is because it coincides with the pagan festival (I think its the sun!) thinking they were evil, they were hoping to rid all "evil" festivals and convert everyone to christianty or in your eyes the truth!!!

I think everyone is aware (some are not through lack of education - mostly non religious ie my mum only found out from me a year ago and still doesnt believe me just because shes never heard it before - I said go ask a christian!) that Jesus was NOT born in december, the bible has no mention of his birth date! However if we were not to make a big deal of our saviours birth and as you believe the resurrection is more important, then why on earth would it be mentioned in the bible about all the troubles surrounding his birth in the stables etc!

I am sorry but the idea not to celebrate birthdays just because two "evil men" decided to celebrate theres (cant remember their names) Birthdays were around long before they were even born (no pun intended there ) ok not the extent we do them today, but they would still be joyous. Do you seriously mean to tell me when you hold a baby in your arms for the first time JWs are not happy (after all it would be celebrating their birthday!) Do your husbands not come into the hospital - that would be celebrating the birthday of your child!

Just because two men who were evil celebrated their birthdays doesnt mean to say everyone else shouldnt celebrate theirs!!! Especially that of Jesus Christ!!!!!

If you carry on in life with that theory, you will eventually not like anything. For example Hitler - does that mean I shouldnt be friends with my best friend who is German. After all hitler is bad all germans must be bad! you must not set foot in Germany as Hitler has poisoned it by being there! c'mon!